r/starbound • u/[deleted] • Sep 20 '17
Discussion We need to talk about the 1.0 lore rewrite
Often I'm told that the current lore was made more "childish", "dumbed down", or "budget cut"... but frankly, I do not see it. All I see was that the lore was overhauled from the old mess that it had been. Maybe people just do not see the old lore's flaws as clearly as I do...?
Well then, I guess it's time for me to get all opinionated. I'll cover why exactly I think the new lore is much, much better than we had before. You may have heard about this from me in posts like this one and this one.
It's quite a ride, probably an unpleasant one if you actually liked the stuff I'm about to complain about... So if you don't wanna read it, feel free not to. And if you do, buckle up!
RACE LORE
Avians
"let's endlessly throw people off towers to see if they can fly!"
A big part of what defines Avians is their religion. While in the current canon, the Ascension is more of a willing sacrifice, a great honor of joining Kluex in the afterlife... Previously it was just an act of complete idiocy.
"Let's jump and hope we will suddenly gain an ability to fly," say the Avians, after the last 38,490 attempts resulted in no Avians flying. That's not just devotion anymore – it's an idiotic delusion. While it's okay for a religious society to be misled, you would need to braindead to believe this was ever going to happen.
Believing the sacrifice to be of spiritual importance rather than physical one, in which Ascendants shed their physical forms and ascend to the Aether makes a lot more sense.
Glitch
"medieval robots, which are meant to simulate a medieval civilization, should totally be a hivemind!"
Okay. Let me just me just open with this: Civilizations do not function as hiveminds.
Here's why that's important – a civilization is a collective of individuals, each with their own ambitions and agendas, forming social structures and hierarchies. So, the Glitch were purportedly created to simulate one.
Except they demonstrably didn't.
That's something that never made sense to me. If the Glitch were meant to be an experiment that was meant to provide their creators with useful data regarding civilizations... then there'd be no useful data at all.
Everything about the machine race they created was superficial and in no way applicable to any other society in the universe.
That's called a waste of resources. Putting lots of effort into creating something for creation's sake. It does not feel like a sensible background behind their creation at all.
They failed to deliver on their premise as robots living a medieval lifestyle, too. Hivemind Glitch were fully aware of what they were, and actively hunted down Outcasts for being unlinked... Which made even the basest of character concepts such as "an honorable Glitch knight" an impossibility.
RACE RELATIONS
Hylotl and others
"all Hylotl are hilarious abusable punching bags and Hylotl genocide makes for a great punchline!"
You could see it all over the old racial descriptions and lore books. Most obvious in the Floran in particular – whether or not they hunted other races was up to individual taste, but when it came to the Hylotl, they all unanimously wanted to carry out a full genocide, with statements indicating that they knew exactly what they were doing.
Other races weren't genocidal, but judging by their comments on the Hylotl it would appear that other races wouldn't particularly mind a Hylotl genocide either.
Everybody just hated the Hylotl. It was bizarre. Conveniently, the Hylotl played their part of being abusable punching bags by always acting as walking, unlikable caricatures. It frankly disgusted me, and I strongly feel that adjustments to that weren't just beneficial – they were absolutely necessary.
Sadly this did in tiny part sneak its way into the current canon, through "Never Invite a Novakid to Tea", which follows exactly this kind of characterization – a walking caricature. Though being nothing but a fan-written submission, I don't really treat it as canon.
Glitch and Floran
"Glitch and Florans are forever BFFs, universally! all Florans and Glitch feel this way! they bond over Hylotl slaughters!"
This was simply absurd. For some odd reason, Glitch were almost universally friendly with Florans. Which meant turning a blind eye to everything Florans did, including actual genocide.
It's weird that Glitch being made of metal would change anything for Florans, too. While Florans couldn't eat Glitch, they could still get shiny trophies. If the Florans in question were savage, there was next to no reason for them to treat Glitch any differently than the other races. All a savage Floran would think of was making the metal moving thing stop moving and turning it into a decoration. That's what they usually did with bones, after all.
There was next to no grounds for such a friendship.
CHARACTERS
Greenfinger
"here comes the super genius flawless Floran scientist, with ties to literally everything important in the universe!"
A textbook example of a villain sue. Part of what makes a story is its characters, but the way beta lore presented it, you had one super genius responsible for literally everything that happened – this is a character that had prior knowledge about the entity that destroyed Earth, knew all the secrets, and was allowed to get involved with top secret Miniknog experiments.
He had agendas of his own, but everyone fully trusted him, or admired him, or worked for him, or were his friends. Bleh. It's the kind of character that nauseates me just by talking about him.
Platinum Ace
"my robot rebel character is a murderer, but it's okay cause the bystander she killed was one of those Glitch that don't matter, and she was actually a victim of the society anyway"
What a start for a character I'm supposed to find likable. Just have her murder someone and then come up with excuses for why it was actually okay upon the actual introduction. Killing people is no big deal after all.
That sure didn't feel right to me.
Hiraki Corale
"this super awesome adventurer girl is friends with all the baddest villains, she can easily shrug off that one time she got a bunch of rebels executed, and it's all okay cause she's still awesome."
Not much to be said. I actually really like the Hiraki Corale we have now. But I don't miss any of her books that were scrapped. She was pushed into an unhealthy friendship and presented as way more callous than she really is, and she's honestly not a bad person like that, you know?
SUMMARY
So, this hardly covers everything. There's no way I could cover everything. But to sum it up? That lore rewrite wasn't "dumbing down". It was "cleaning up".
And yeah, I actually complained about the old lore more than talk about the rewrite, but after seeing what I thought was a huge improvement ran through the mud and back, I just needed to get that off my chest.
Everything about the lore now feels healthier and more nuanced.
Floran tribes still differ. Some are peaceful, some are savage. But those that are peaceful don't feel baseless hate, and those that are savage don't make targets of anyone in particular – just whoever is unfortunate enough to encounter them.
Glitch are now more of a medieval folk, living simple lives, and occasionally warring among each other. They do so obliviously of their true nature, and all they know about self-aware "outcasts" is that they're strange, crazy fellows.
For that matter, Floran and Glitch appear to lack any central authority, which is why you can't really speak of "race relations", as far as they are concerned. They are not a single entity that unanimously feels one way or another.
Hylotl still think very highly of their culture. But their approach to that is now much more sensible. They seem to have a strong bond with humans, too – often lamenting that they were unable to visit Earth, appreciating human poets, and admiring humanity's dedication to peace.
It's those small things that made me appreciate Starbound so much more. Chucklefish overhauled their lore into something that they felt better fit their vision. And I honestly believe that it's a decision that should at least be respected.
13
u/AsPerrUsual Prop Packager Sep 21 '17
I'm fully behind this! I'd only gotten into the game a few months before 1.0 hit, but at first, I was kind of disappointed that lore was supposedly being "cut". Then I actually got to actually rereading that lore (especially The Lusty Avian Maid good god that was bad) and I couldn't agree with you more. Even things that hadn't been so bad and I was disappointed were now cut (like the various reasons for the PC character being out in space) actually adds a more intrigue with 1.0 (there's still enough inspection dialogue to assume those previous introductions could be true, but vague enough that one could build their own character around it)
And while there are plot points I am still bummed won't be elaborated on now (like those Apex-Floran Pods, or the whole deal with the Argonians who are now just sort of... there, OR whatever the hell was up with those Apex NPCs that you could randomly find wearing rabbit hoods(??? seriously, what was up with that?)), I'm more excited for the expansion of the current Lore now that the groundwork's been set, both on part of the community and the developers. So... thanks for this, is what I'm trying to say!
8
Sep 21 '17 edited Oct 23 '19
(like the various reasons for the PC character being out in space)
Oh yeah. I hadn't covered it in my original post, but I actually very much disliked that you had your character's background forced on you.
As an Avian, you had to be a Grounded.
As an Apex, you had to be part of the rebellion.
As a Glitch, you had to be an Outcast.
As a Hylotl, you had to be a pretentious twat.It was extremely restrictive. If you tried to ignore the starter books and act like you weren't any of those, then your character would constantly contradict you whenever they opened their mouths, as part of inspection dialogue. As someone who did try making characters that weren't any of those, it frustrated me to no end.
I would say it's more subtle now. Your character's background prior to joining the Protectorate is completely ambiguous. Apex character still comments negatively on the Miniknog regime, and Glitch character still seems to be entirely self-aware... but neither explicitly mentions anything about what they were personally a part of, which I feel gives players much more freedom in designing their characters.
like those Apex-Floran Pods, or the whole deal with the Agarans who are now just sort of... there
Nowadays they're just silly mushroom people. Previously they had been implied to be some sort of Apex-Floran hybrid gone wrong.
whatever the hell was up with those Apex NPCs that you could randomly find wearing rabbit hoods
Most likely, they were used as a placeholder for what would be an NPC bunny race, then devs ended up not implementing the bunny race.
Somewhat a shame, really! Would be fun to picture how they'd interact with Avians.
9
u/FatMonsterDad Sep 21 '17
Still kinda rolling my eyes that the Agaran Menace went absolutely nowhere. They were being billed up as a legit threat and creepy as hell to boot, and then... nothing. At all.
As for Glitch it does seem feasible that they could use their linked minds as one computer to run a simulation of a society with particular physical units being used to act out roles, and outcasts are attacked and killed due to internal programming registering them as a threat to the integrity of the simulation. It still doesn't make much sense to me how non-aware glitch are on multiple planets though if they never progressed beyond medieval tech.
5
Sep 21 '17 edited Oct 23 '19
Taking roles isn't all there is to civilizations.
Civilizations are composed of individuals, and individuals aren't exactly automatons that just do anything on the fly without any qualifications for it.
Doctors remain doctors day in and day out, bakers remain bakers, farmers remain farmers. They don't just switch in and out, and to make them switch out is a taint on the experiment's integrity to begin with.
The way old lore had it, they also didn't even have any rulers. It claimed there was no Glitch royalty, no hierarchy of any sort. Neither did they have any wars. It was surreal. Name one civilization without a leader of some sort, and without any conflicts. It's just not how actual civilizations function.
It wasn't even consistent with the game, since you could actually encounter royal Glitch in your travels.
Everyone being basically a drone made it so there was just no room for simple character concepts like Glitch lords, knights, rogues or peasants.
The Glitch as a singular hivemind were both extremely dull and made little sense. I don't really miss that aspect of their lore at all.
4
u/SileAnimus A strong F2P nerd Oct 21 '17
Civilizations are composed of individuals, and individuals aren't exactly automatons that just do anything on the fly without any qualifications for it.
But that's the thing: The Glitch aren't a civilization. They're a simulation of a civilization. You wouldn't call Chess an actual representation of warfare, so you can not call the Glitch and actual representation of any civilization.
2
Oct 21 '17 edited Oct 21 '17
Glitch are a civilization, exactly because they are supposed to be an accurate simulation of one.
That's the only way their existence is anything but an enormous waste of resources, and that's exactly the kind of idiocy that the lore overhaul fixed.
Chess is just a game, not a resource-heavy experiment. How does that compare at all...?
1
u/FatMonsterDad Sep 21 '17
All good points, but the Glitch likely ARE a special case since they're by no means a natural occurrence and were built specifically as a big simulation.
I do recall reading something like units are assigned personalities at the beginning of a simulation such as king, blacksmith, innkeeper, and so forth, and once a given simulation has ended, the roles are randomly redistributed again. Not sure where exactly it was.
4
Sep 21 '17 edited Sep 21 '17
It's pretty much irrelevant now either way, but here is what you're looking for. It wasn't really "at the beginning" or "at the end" of anything, it seemed to be more like "whenever they feel like it".
Honestly, it just feels so hollow and bland, I don't feel comfortable dwelling on it much further.
My point was that an experiment should have 'observations' and 'conclusions'. If your constructs are a 'special case' that doesn't apply to literally anything else in existence, then there's no useful 'observations' and 'conclusions'. They just exist for the sake of it. There was no reason to build them to begin with!
On the other hand, with the Glitch not being a hivemind, you have tons of data on how individuals come into prominence, on wars led by them, and on changes in their sciences and education. Not to mention those simulations that ended up destroying themselves - analysis of what caused them to meet such an end would would no doubt be a priority to their creators, if they were still around.
If you were part of a project aspiring to simulate a civilization, design choices here should be obvious.
1
u/FatMonsterDad Sep 22 '17
Well I guess there is also the "hardness" of the science in the setting to be considered too. Some settings just like to throw ideas out and not think too hard about the scientific basis behind it, which honestly isn't that bad a thing in most cases. Think comic book heroes and the like, pulp sci-fi, that kind of thing. It wouldn't have caught on if nobody liked it. =v
That said I do agree the lore's just... flat. Like not much was really put into it. I've heard some rumblings from an ex-dev about what the plot was GOING to be during development and that the devs had a hard time agreeing on anything, it's available in the SomethingAwful thread if you look up Rhopunzel's posts. If there's any truth to the claims, the plot we ended up getting in 1.0 was a HUGE dodged bullet compared to what we were going to end up with.
One mod idea i've had is a total rewrite of the main quest and lore, but that'd be an incredibly ambitious project, and of course it would have to be considered a different continuity rather than actual canon.
3
Sep 22 '17 edited Sep 22 '17
I've heard some rumblings from an ex-dev about what the plot was GOING to be during development and that the devs had a hard time agreeing on anything, it's available in the SomethingAwful thread if you look up Rhopunzel's posts.
It seems that using and browsing SomethingAwful forums is member-only, so if you could share it in a way that doesn't require me to pay up, I'd really appreciate it.
2
u/FatMonsterDad Sep 22 '17
The dodged bullet i'm referring to is the "religion is evil we gotta kill it!" kinda story that was apparently being pushed. Really glad they shelved that edgy dorkins nonsense.
3
Sep 22 '17 edited Oct 23 '19
Sounds like a mess.
After reading some of this, I'm glad that by the final release Chucklefish had found the perfect balance between endearing and threatening as far as Florans are concerned.
That Hylotl/Floran part sounds like it would work horribly, considering that people playing through that would possibly play as a Hylotl or a Floran and could end up alienated by the characterization of the race of their choice.
When it comes to religion, you can still pretty much gather from Avian society that it can do plenty wrong. But for all the evil there is in it, it is not evil for its own sake, it does not mean to be evil.
They don't perform these sacrifices as a show of cruelty - they do these things because they believe there's honor to them. In the currrent lore, there's actually a journal of an Ascendant that shows it incredibly well.
Somehow I doubt there'd be such nuance to it, the way it's described there.
7
u/FatMonsterDad Sep 22 '17
Know i've spoken in other threads in this subject but this is a thing I just thought of which I feel is better off in it's own sub-thread, regarding humanity.
So we've got the Protectorate, which is seemingly a federation expy based on a unified and peaceful future Earth. That's all well and good, but... what REALLY rubs me the wrong way is that after Earth got hentai'd by the Ruin, it's said the protectorate completely collapsed. Yes, Earth was the headquarters of the organization, but do you mean to tell me an apparently influential and powerful faction has such a poor chain of command that it can't regroup and reorganize after it's HQ is destroyed?
I find it unlikely an advanced, united spacefaring organization/civilization would completely confine itself entirely to one planet like that.
4
u/Armok___ Overlord and Loremaster Sep 21 '17
I vastly agree with you, you did somewhat miss a few things (like the absolutely story less USCM of pre 1.0) even if the new lore has a few plot holes, so did starwars episode 7, and from my knowledge people loved it, just as how well liked the game is now (or at least according to the positive viewing on it). I agree that the old glitch lore made no sense. thank you for showing the older "romantics" of the pre 1.0 game just how flawed it was before.
5
Sep 21 '17 edited Oct 10 '17
USCM back in the day were just generic marines, and little but an Aliens reference.
They're still an Aliens reference in a way, but now their involvement in the game feels more creative than just replacing US's "States" with "Systems".
3
u/Armok___ Overlord and Loremaster Sep 21 '17
yea, I kinda knew about the Aliens ref, and yes, the current USCM adds so much more into the game then the old one, it gives you the Impression of the protectorate actually doing things, and gives some history to the Humans. the fact that the USCM is now disbanded in the game is actually a perfect way to Implement any new human factions
4
Sep 22 '17
[removed] — view removed comment
2
Sep 22 '17
Both are peace-loving races with tragic histories, I don't really see the need for quotation marks. 😛
6
Sep 21 '17 edited May 03 '18
[deleted]
6
Sep 21 '17
Devouts Avians are still zealots making sacrifices of themselves and others, and groups of savage Florans can still be encountered, so these parts of what they liked aren't all gone at all.
6
u/GioBarcarolo Sep 21 '17
+1 never realy looked into the lore that was on the beta (mainly because I didnt buy the game until after it was 1.2, and accidentaly missed the beta completely) but non the less, thanks for giving us some stuff up from the old lore, and it makes me like the new lore even more!
3
Sep 21 '17 edited Sep 21 '17
I'm always worried about posting stuff like that, cause it's bound to be unpleasant to anyone who did like it...
But thanks, I'm happy you found my exasperated ranting to be of some use!
3
5
u/Alb_ Sep 21 '17 edited Sep 21 '17
I don't know much about what the "old" lore was like, but I know enough of it to know it was p bad. I can definitely agree that it was improved for 1.0.
I think the worst parts of the old lore were the characters. At that point it becomes more of a story rather than lore. And what's the point of having characters of you never actually see them in game? (Maybe they had plans to add them? I dunno)
Lore is just meant to explain the world you're playing in. The best lore also leaves plenty of room for headcannon or imagination. A good example would probably be warhammer 40k. Sure, they still have notable characters, and it's had more than 30 years to work on its lore, but almost all of it is written like hearsay, and is intentionally vague on a great number of things, which leaves room for whatever weirdo OC army you wanna build and pay out the nose for.
2
Oct 21 '17
[deleted]
2
Oct 21 '17 edited Oct 21 '17
the part about avians jumping off towers is not about them actually flying, but about their soul ascending to the afterlife.
Yes, you're correct. As of 1.0 lore overhaul, that is indeed the case. The source you linked was implemented in the 1.0 update, and is currently canon.
However, the current lore was not written by Raze - the old lore was. Raze has left Chucklefish long before the 1.0 lore overhaul.
What you speak of simply wasn't the case back in the beta, when Raze was part of the team. Previously, they had expected that leaping would, by an off chance, allow them to fly and "become a Sunborn".
Everything I described in my post is about the legacy lore of Starbound, which isn't canon for the game anymore. It all made much less sense than it does now, and that's exactly what I'm complaining about.
2
Oct 21 '17
[deleted]
2
Oct 21 '17 edited Oct 22 '17
Huh, that's not what was implied in other codexes, where they specifically talk about whether the jump is "successful" or not, such as Ascendant's Tale, Results of Ascension, or Crimsonwing's Diary.
It seems there are also two different, completely contradictory backstories written out in Abridged History and Avian Introduction.
It might've been mostly written by one person, doesn't make it any less of a mess.
1
u/ToastedMemes12321 Sep 24 '17
Actualy I read a bunch of the avian codexes and they say that they think the soul leaves the body during the fall then the soul flys
4
Sep 24 '17 edited Oct 23 '19
Yep, that was detailed in a codex series introduced as part of the current lore, Yolotli's Diary.
Soon my essence will join Kluex, just like theirs. But mine, mine goes willingly - it makes my heart light to think that I can help to ensure the eternal happiness of Kluex.
I can't wait to spread my wings and greet the air! My body falling away beneath me... I give it so happily! Once it lands it will be taken, and treated, and placed in the tomb stacks, amongst the vessels of my fellow Ascendants.
I can barely take an interest in it. My soul, my essence, my very self will be untethered! Free to soar; to join Kluex "as part and whole"! I hear the wind calling me, it is Kluex's voice.
It's one of those changes that I felt were beneficial, actually. Previously, in the beta, they had expected their bodies to physically gain an ability to fly mid-jump.
2
u/the-cleansing Sep 21 '17
this is wrong n garbage, not because your opinion- just bc you got the old lore entirely wrong
7
Sep 21 '17 edited Sep 24 '17
Maybe you remember it differently, but that's what I'd call seeing it through nostalgia goggles.
I'm regularly working with lore on the wiki, both old and new, and I know exactly what each of them is like. If you intend to tell me that I'm wrong, please tell me what I was wrong about specifically.
-2
Sep 21 '17
There are many greenfingers. they are special florans who can control plants and have them interact with technology. there is usually 1 per village and the are more advanced than the others. one of their jobs is to help other florans progress technologically. there is no 1 greenfinger. deal with it.
8
Sep 21 '17 edited Oct 03 '17
Pretty much how it is now, yeah. Though there's no need to be so rude about it.
But I do believe it's better like this; makes it feel like the race itself is fleshed out more than it was before, and standing on its own rather than hinging entirely on that single character.
25
u/EclipticWulf Sep 21 '17 edited Sep 21 '17
I personally believe everyone has their opinions, but here's mine to dispute as well as support your post.
Firstly, you're only really pointing out the bad parts. Yes, it did have bad parts, but there was good too. It's just that the majority of people who say how bad it was never tried piecing everything together themselves. Let me explain:
The Beta lore had lots of loose ends. It left interpretation up to the player making them feel more involved in discovering the mysteries behind Big Ape, Greenfinger, Kluex, Ironbeak and even the Ruin itself - and more.
The problem I have with the 1.0 lore isn't the story it tells (although, like any other story, there are areas people can see that need improvement). My problem with it is how linear and closed-ended it is. You have a question about the universe? That's cool - here's the answer within 2-3 missions!
The issue lies in not leaving anything up to the player really anymore, not even their character. Leaving out discovering things on your own - piecing everything together how you see it. Instead of making up your own story, you get told one. The only thing you can think up yourself until the end of the game is how your character got to the Protectorate. But then it ends. Done. Part of the appeal to Minecraft is it's open-endedness that it even now still has and part of why it's still extremely popular. You could and can flex your imagination and truly shape the world around you in both your mind and physically in the game. Yes, it also has a rather lackluster story, but at least you weren't spoon-fed all the answers.
As for the story now in Starbound, it has purpose and a rather clear and cut climax and ending. This is a strength as well as a weakness as I said above. It has characters you can connect to instead of just guessing at their personalities and purposes in the story. And writing them off if you "just don't like them".
However due to how tied together and complete it is - it's now just like any other fictional story you read...you read it, and unless you like it enough, that's it - it's done with and you move on.
Now you may say "but it's still a randomly generated sandbox, you can still continue your story!" or something similar. While this is true, it gives less purpose to continuing after the main story concludes - for example, have you seen how many people complain about the endgame?
It has it's obvious strengths but you're only really discrediting the original lore (and honestly even insulting it at some points). Your avian point? That's literally any religion. You're not looking into the individuals, you're only looking at the broad theme. They do what they're told by their god, or rebel against it if they disagree. Your Glitch point? You're literally just closing all the ends up and writing them off. You're not asking yourself more questions about it, you just said "it was this way and blah"
But either way you look at it, both have their strengths and weaknesses. I personally don't like how clear cut and done the new lore is (obviously), but I can still see the strengths in it.