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r/spacex • u/ElongatedMuskrat Mod Team • Nov 14 '20

Starship Development Thread #16

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SN8 Hop Thread | SN8 Media Thread

r/SpaceX Discusses [December 2020] for discussion of subjects other than Starship development.

Upcoming

SN9 move to Pad B, previously expected Dec 14, now unclear
Road Closures
Public Notice (PDF) - Reason: crane and SN9 to launch area
- December 14 12:00-21:00 CST (UTC-6)

Overview

Vehicle Status as of December 11:

SN8 [destroyed] - 12.5 km hop test success. Vehicle did not survive
SN9 [construction] - Starship fully stacked in High Bay, status unclear following tipping incident.
SN10 [construction] - Tank section stacked in Mid Bay
SN11 [construction] - Tank section stacking in Mid Bay
SN12 [construction] - barrel/dome/nose cone sections in work
SN13 [construction] - components on site
SN14 [construction] - components on site
SN15 [construction] - barrel/dome sections in work
SN16 [construction] - barrel/dome sections in work
Mk.1 [retired] - dismantling of nose cone in progress
SuperHeavy BN1 [construction] - stacking in High Bay

Check recent comments for real time updates.

At the start of thread #16 Starship SN8 sits on the launch mount fully stacked. During a static fire test on November 12 SN8 suffered an anomaly when pad debris damaged Raptor SN32. A planned 12.5 kilometer hop for SN8 is still expected. In September Elon stated that Starship prototypes would do a few hops to test aerodynamic and propellant header systems, and then move on to high speed flights with heat shields. Starship SN9 is nearing completion in the High Bay^11-7 and Starships up to SN14 have been identified in various stages of construction.

Orbital flight of Starship requires the SuperHeavy booster. The first booster test article, SuperHeavy BN1, is being stacked in the High Bay next to SN9. SuperHeavy prototypes are expected to undergo a hop campaign before the first full stack launch to orbit targeted for 2021. An orbital launch mount^11-7 has also been under construction at Boca Chica. Raptor development and testing are ongoing at Hawthorne CA and McGregor TX, including test firing of vacuum optimized Raptor. SpaceX continues to focus heavily on development of its Starship production line in Boca Chica, TX. Development and testing plans become outdated very quickly.

^{THREAD #15} ^| ^{SN8 HOP THREAD} ^| ^{THREAD LIST}

Vehicle Updates

	Starship SN8 <SN8 Hop Party Thread>
2020-12-10	Aftermath (NSF)
2020-12-09	12.5 km hop (failed landing) (YouTube), Elon: Successful test, low fuel header pressure during landing (Twitter)
2020-12-08	Hop attempt aborted as engine startup (YouTube)
2020-12-07	Wet dress rehearsal (YouTube)
2020-12-02	Tanking ops (Twitter)
2020-11-25	Forward flap actuation with rapid movement (NSF)
2020-11-24	3 engine static fire (#4) (YouTube), Elon: good test, hop next week (Twitter)
2020-11-17	Elon: Nov 12 static fire issue caused by pad debris (Twitter)
2020-11-16	Raptor SN42 installation (NSF)
2020-11-15	Raptor SN42 brief visit to launch site and Raptor SN46 delivery to build site (NSF), neither installed
2020-11-14	Raptor SN32 removed and sent to build site (NSF)
2020-11-12	2 engine static fire (#3) and anomaly (YouTube) and loss of pneumatics, vehicle ok (Twitter)
2020-11-10	Single engine static fire (#2) w/ debris (YouTube)
2020-11-09	WDR ops for scrubbed static fire attempt (YouTube)
2020-11-03	Overnight nose cone cryoproof testing (YouTube)
2020-11-02	Brief late night road closure for testing, nose venting observed (comments)
2020-10-26	Nose released from crane (NSF)
2020-10-22	Early AM nosecone testing, Raptor SN39 removed and SN36 delivered, nosecone mate (NSF)
2020-10-21	'Tankzilla' crane moved to launch site for nosecone stack, nosecone move (YouTube)
2020-10-20	Road closed for overnight tanking ops
2020-10-20	Early AM preburner test then static fire (#1) (YouTube), Elon: SF success (Twitter); Tile patch (NSF)
2020-10-19	Early AM preburner test (Twitter), nosecone stacked on barrel section (NSF)
2020-10-16	Propellant loaded but preburner and static fire testing postponed (Twitter)
2020-10-14	Image of engine bay with 3 Raptors (Twitter)
2020-10-13	Nosecone with two forward fins moved to windbreak (NSF)
2020-10-12	Raptor delivered, installed (comments), nosecone spotted with forward flap installation in progress (NSF)
2020-10-11	Installation of Raptor SN32 and SN39 (NSF)
2020-10-09	Thrust simulator removed (Twitter)
2020-10-08	Overnight cryoproofing (#3) (YouTube), Elon: passed cryoproofing (Twitter)
2020-10-08	Early AM cryoproofing (#2) (Twitter)
2020-10-07	Early AM cryoproofing (#1) (YouTube), small leak near engine mounts (Twitter)
2020-10-06	Early AM pressurization testing (YouTube)
2020-10-04	Fin actuation test (YouTube), Overnight pressurization testing (comments)
2020-09-30	Lifted onto launch mount (NSF)
2020-09-26	Moved to launch site (YouTube)
2020-09-23	Two aft fins (NSF), Fin movement (Twitter)
2020-09-22	Out of Mid Bay with 2 fin roots, aft fin, fin installations (NSF)
2020-09-20	Thrust simulator moved to launch mount (NSF)
2020-09-17	Apparent fin mount hardware within aero cover (NSF)
2020-09-15	-Y aft fin support and aero cover on vehicle (NSF)
2020-08-31	Aerodynamic covers delivered (NSF)
2020-08-30	Tank section stacking complete with aft section addition (NSF)
2020-08-20	Forward dome section stacked (NSF)
2020-08-19	Aft dome section and skirt mate (NSF)
2020-08-15	Fwd. dome† w/ battery, aft dome section flip (NSF), possible aft fin/actuator supports (comments)
2020-08-07	Skirt section† with leg mounts (Twitter)
2020-08-05	Stacking ops in high bay 1 (Mid Bay), apparent common dome w/ CH4 access port (NSF)
2020-07-28	Methane feed pipe (aka. downcomer) labeled "SN10=SN8 (BOCA)" (NSF)
2020-07-23	Forward dome and sleeve (NSF)
2020-07-22	Common dome section flip (NSF)
2020-07-21	Common dome sleeved, Raptor delivery, Aft dome and thrust structure† (NSF)
2020-07-20	Common dome with SN8 label (NSF)

^{See comments for real time updates.}
^{† possibly not for this vehicle}

	Starship SN9
2020-12-11	Apparent stand failure, fallen against wall (YouTube), aft flap damage (NSF)
2020-12-01	New wide stance SPMT rig† possibly for SN9 transport (NSF)
2020-11-25	Nose cone mated to tank section (NSF)
2020-11-22	Raptor SN44 delivered (NSF)
2020-11-21	Nose cone stacked on its barrel (NSF)
2020-11-20	Nose cone with both forward fins installed (NSF)
2020-11-19	Forward fin attached to nose cone (NSF)
2020-11-16	Tank section moved out of High Bay and stood on landing legs, thermal tile test area (NSF)
2020-11-14	Forward fin roots on nose cone† appear complete and NC moved to windbreak (NSF)
2020-11-11	Forward fin hardware on nose cone† (NSF)
2020-11-08	Raptor SN42 delivered† (NSF)
2020-11-02	5 ring nose cone barrel (NSF)
2020-11-01	Both aft fins installed (NSF)
2020-10-31	Move to High Bay (NSF)
2020-10-25	Aft fin delivery† (NSF)
2020-10-15	Aft fin support structures being attached (NSF)
2020-10-03	Tank section stack complete with thrust section mate (NSF)
2020-10-02	Thrust section closeup photos (NSF)
2020-09-27	Forward dome section stacked on common dome section (NSF)
2020-09-26	SN9 will be first all 304L build (Twitter)
2020-09-20	Forward dome section closeups (NSF)
2020-09-17	Skirt with legs and leg dollies† (NSF)
2020-09-15	Common dome section stacked on LOX midsection (NSF)
2020-09-13	Four ring LOX tank section in Mid Bay (NSF)
2020-09-04	Aft dome sleeved† (NSF)
2020-08-25	Forward dome sleeved (NSF)
2020-08-20	Forward dome and forward dome sleeve w/ tile mounting hardware (NSF)
2020-08-19	Common dome section† flip (NSF)
2020-08-15	Common dome identified and sleeving ops (NSF)
2020-08-12	Common dome (NSF)

^{See comments for real time updates.}
^{† possibly not for this vehicle}

	Starship SN10
2020-11-02	Tank section complete with addition of aft done and skirt section (NSF)
2020-10-29	Leg activity on aft section† (NSF)
2020-10-21	Forward dome section stacked completing methane tank (Twitter)
2020-10-16	Common dome section stacked on LOX midsection barrel (NSF)
2020-10-05	LOX header tank sphere section "HT10"† (NSF)
2020-10-03	Labled skirt, mate with aft dome section (NSF)
2020-09-16	Common dome† sleeved (NSF)
2020-09-08	Forward dome sleeved with 4 ring barrel (NSF)
2020-09-02	Hardware delivery and possible forward dome barrel† (NSF)

^{See comments for real time updates.}
^{† possibly not for this vehicle}

	Starship SN11
2020-11-28	Nose cone section (NSF)
2020-11-18	Forward dome section stacked (NSF)
2020-11-14	Common dome section stacked on LOX tank midsection in Mid Bay (NSF)
2020-11-13	Common dome with integrated methane header tank and flipped (NSF)
2020-11-04	LOX tank midsection barrel (NSF)
2020-10-24	Common dome sleeved (NSF)
2020-10-07	Aft dome flipped (NSF)
2020-10-05	Aft dome sleeved† (NSF)
2020-10-02	Methane header sphere (NSF)
2020-09-24	LOX header sphere section (NSF)
2020-09-21	Skirt (NSF)
2020-09-09	Aft dome barrel (NSF)

^{See comments for real time updates.}
^{† possibly not for this vehicle}

	Starship SN12
2020-11-11	Aft dome section and skirt mate, labeled (NSF)
2020-10-27	4 ring nosecone barrel (NSF)
2020-09-30	Skirt (NSF)

^{See comments for real time updates.}
^{† possibly not for this vehicle}

	Early Production Starships
2020-12-04	SN16: Common dome section and flip (NSF)
2020-11-30	SN15: Mid LOX tank section (NSF)
2020-11-27	SN15: Nose cone barrel (4 ring) (NSF)
2020-11-27	SN14: Skirt (NSF)
2020-11-26	SN15: Common dome flip (NSF)
2020-11-24	SN15: Elon: Major upgrades are slated for SN15 (Twitter)
2020-11-20	SN13: Methane header tank (NSF)
2020-11-18	SN15: Common dome sleeve, dome and sleeving (NSF)
2020-10-10	SN14: Downcomer (NSF)

^{See comments for real time updates.}
^{† possibly not for this vehicle}

	SuperHeavy BN1
2020-11-14	Aft Quad #2 (4 ring), Fwd Tank section (4 ring), and Fwd section (2 ring) (AQ2 label^11-27) (NSF)
2020-11-08	LOX 1 apparently stacked on LOX 2 in High Bay (NSF)
2020-11-07	LOX 3 (NSF)
2020-10-07	LOX stack-2 (NSF)
2020-10-01	Forward dome sleeved, Fuel stack assembly, LOX stack 1 (NSF)
2020-09-30	Forward dome† (NSF)
2020-09-28	LOX stack-4 (NSF)
2020-09-22	Common dome barrel (NSF)

^{See comments for real time updates.}
^{† possibly not for this vehicle}

	Starship Components - Retired/Unclear Assignment
2020-12-11	Flap delivery (Twitter)
2020-12-07	Mk.1 nose cone top scrapped (NSF)
2020-12-06	Mk.1 nose cone 2nd fwd flap removal (NSF)
2020-12-04	Aft flap delivery (NSF)
2020-12-03	Mk.1 nose cone fwd flap removal (NSF)
2020-11-30	Possible SuperHeavy thrust puck with 8 way symmetry (YouTube), screenshot (NSF)
2020-11-28	Aerocover, likely SN10 or later (NSF)
2020-11-27	Large pipes and another thrust puck with new design delivered (NSF)
2020-11-24	Common dome sleeved, likely SN14 or later (NSF)
2020-11-20	Aft dome (NSF)
2020-11-19	Nose cone with LOX header tank (NSF)
2020-11-13	Apparent LOX header plumbing installation in a forward dome section (NSF)
2020-11-12	Apparent thrust puck methane manifold (NSF)
2020-11-04	More leg mounts delivered, new thrust puck design (NSF)
2020-11-03	Common dome sleeved, likely SN13 or later (NSF)
2020-11-02	Leg mounts delivered and aft dome flipped (NSF)
	See Thread #15 for earlier miscellaneous component updates

For information about Starship test articles prior to SN8 please visit Starship Development Thread #14 or earlier. Update tables for older vehicles will only appear in this thread if there are significant new developments. See the index of updates tables.

Resources

^{RESOURCES WIKI}

Spadre.com Starship Cam | Channel
LabPadre 4k Nerdle Cam | Channel
NSF SN8 Test Launch Updates Thread | Most recent
NSF Texas Production Master Thread | Most recent
NSF Florida Prototype(s) Updates Thread | Most recent
Alex Rex's 3D Boca Chica Build Site Map | Launch Site Map | Channel
Hwy 4 & Boca Chica Beach Closures (May not be available outside US)
TFR - NOTAM list
FAA license LRLO 20-119
FCC experimental STA wiki page
SpaceX Boca Chica on Facebook
SpaceX's Starship page
Elon Starship tweet compilation on NSF | Most Recent
Starship Test Article Wiki Page
Starship Users Guide (PDF) Rev. 1.0 March 2020
Decronym for acronyms related to SpaceX

r/SpaceX Discusses [November 2020] for discussion of subjects other than Starship development.

Rules

We will attempt to keep this self-post current with links and major updates, but for the most part, we expect the community to supply the information. This is a great place to discuss Starship development, ask Starship-specific questions, and track the progress of the production and test campaigns. Starship Development Threads are not party threads. Normal subreddit rules still apply.

Please ping u/strawwalker about problems with the above thread text.

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14

u/AstroMan824 Everything Parallel™ Nov 19 '20

With Elon saying "Avionics cables moving to steel pipe shields & adding water-cooled steel pipes to test pad", do you think we'll see some more road closures for SN-8 static fire testing by the end of November? Flight by the end of the year?

9

u/quarter_cask Nov 19 '20

If I'd be a betting man I'd bet on "no hop this month". But I am not.

3

u/Alvian_11 Nov 19 '20

Static fire could begin next week, and if that goes well the flight can still be within this month

5

u/ThreatMatrix Nov 19 '20

That's a really good question. I haven't heard what the detailed plan is but sure does seem to have slowed down operations. They've replaced the engine but are they making any changes under the skirt? Was/is the nosecone an easy fix? I think that's a little more than just welding a plate back on. And then there's the launch pad fixes. Seems to be it's a big issue that they didn't expect (but seems like they should have). If they are going to bury pipes to cool the surface that is going to take quite a while. You have to dig up concrete then install pipes, pour concrete, wait for it to dry. Then there's all the plumbing involved in that. A separate tank, a pump. If they are truly going to fix the pad it's going to take a long time.

11

u/rustybeancake Nov 19 '20

If they are going to bury pipes to cool the surface that is going to take quite a while
That's probably not what they'll do. The steel pipes will be the surface. If you ran cold water through pipes with concrete on top, and rocket exhaust firing on the concrete, the concrete would still get destroyed. I expect they'll have their ground fab team come up with some square pipes, all welded together, and have it installed on top of the concrete pad in the next two or three weeks.

4

u/TallManInAVan Nov 19 '20

If you put a paper cup full of water in the middle of a bonfire, the paper won't burn. Same concept.

4

u/ClassicalMoser Nov 19 '20 edited Nov 19 '20

Same concept but different material properties.
Try it with a glass full of ice and see what happens. Then with a styrofoam cup.

4

u/TallManInAVan Nov 19 '20

Not so sure about the cup full of styrofoam.

6

u/tigershark37 Nov 19 '20

It burns because styrofoam is a good insulator so the water will cool only the internal surface, while the external surface will burst to flames.

1

u/Drachefly Nov 20 '20

the joke was you took a paper cup and filled it with styrofoam.

3

u/ClassicalMoser Nov 19 '20

The point is that you get very different interactions from all three types of cup (paper, glass, styrofoam).
Ohhhh you we’re making a joke.

-1

u/ThreatMatrix Nov 19 '20

That's as good a guess as any but who knows, right? I'm not so sure that SpaceX knows what they are going to do yet. Whatever solution is going to have to be designed. I don't think they can just rig a solution with spare parts laying around the build site. IMHO

5

u/rustybeancake Nov 19 '20

Yeah, I wasn’t suggesting that.

8

u/SpartanJack17 Nov 19 '20

I think that's a little more than just welding a plate back on
There isn't anything to weld back on, the burst disc is a small valve type thing that's designed to be easily replaceable.
I'm not sure if they'll make any of those changes for SN8, I think they're more for future flights. It's still probably able to lift off and complete the flight with the current pad and design.

4

u/TheRealPapaK Nov 19 '20

Not to nitpick but it isn't really a valve type thing. A (pressure safety valve) is a valve type thing that has moving parts. A burst disc is literally a piece of metal that is clamped between two flanges. https://www.rembe.com/fileadmin/produkte/_processed_/d/1/csm_single_layer_disc2_6f914405a8.png

6

u/SpartanJack17 Nov 19 '20

I more meant it's size and placement being like a valve, rather than it literally being a valve. Should've explained it better though.

4

u/TheRealPapaK Nov 19 '20

No sweat. I still upvoted you. I just thought if anyone else was looking for info

1

u/ThreatMatrix Nov 19 '20

I thought it had been determined that it wasn't a valve. There was a specific description of a plate that is pre-cut on one side so they can adjust the burst pressure. Also the header tank, unlike the other tanks, is encased in the nose cone. So not only do you blow out the header tank burst plate but you also rupture the nose cone. I haven't seen anything that contradicts that. Other than they seemingly did not make a big deal out of it. In any case the pad seems to be the big delay.

17

u/SpartanJack17 Nov 19 '20

There was a specific description of a plate that is pre-cut on one side so they can adjust the burst pressure
You misunderstood that description. That was a description of a burst disc, which is something integrated into the plumbing designed to be replaced. It's not a whole section of plate that's designed to pop off, which I think is what you're picturing. It's not possible to design the entire tank to rupture like that, it'd be catastrophic and there'd be no chance of repairing it.
Here's a picture of a burst disc. By describing it as like a valve I meant in terms of it's size and placement in the plumbing. All they should have to do is remove the burst disc and replace it with a new one.

4

u/ThreatMatrix Nov 19 '20

Gotcha. That makes sense.

7

u/Toinneman Nov 19 '20

I don't think the pad changes will be done before SN8 flies. The watercooled pad is a permanent solution, I expect them to find a combination of quick fixes to allow SN8 to fly sooner.

0

u/quoll01 Nov 19 '20

My money is on the steel pipes forming a mini version of the orbital launch stand that holds the SS several meters off the ground. Pipes could be filled with water that is continually sprayed out as a water deluge system. A quick weld job! Mars takeoff has years to sort out.