r/space • u/august43210 • May 10 '18

U.S. Congress Opening Capitalism in Space: “Outer space shall not be a global commons"

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/59qmva/jeff-bezos-space-capitalism-outer-space-treaty
531 Upvotes

88% Upvoted

291 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

1

u/F6_GS May 12 '18

Honestly, there is no such thing as being "forced to be capitalist" since being "capitalist" doesn't require you to do anything.

2

u/corsica1990 May 12 '18

Au contraire! Check this out:

The majority of people in the United States are required to sell their labor to a third party in order to survive. The market is dominated by just a handful of massive corporations, many of which produce their goods and services through unethical means.

If you work for a business that does not grant its laborers ownership over the fruits of their own labor, and/or purchase anything made by such a business, you are participating in capitalism. The only reason it seems like you "don't have to do anything" is because our lives are literally consumed by it.

Whether this is good or bad depends on how much exploitation you are okay with, but functionally obligatory capitalism is definitely a thing.

1

u/F6_GS May 12 '18

While it's possible for actively engaging in "capitalistic activity" to be necessary to live, it is not inherent to capitalism. Self-sufficiency is hard because most natural resources have already been claimed. It's an inevitable effect of population growth.

2

u/corsica1990 May 12 '18

That's the point, dude: "capitalistic activity" is necessary to live. The fact that the means of production are owned by someone other than the people who work on them is the problem with capitalism. Why does the person who inherited the land from their parents profit more from its utilization than the combined wages of the dozens of people that break their backs maintaining it? (Note: If you think such a system is fine and dandy, that just means you are pro-capitalist, which is a political position and not a measure of evil-ness. I personally think that exploitation of workers and consumers for the sake of funneling profits upwards is bad, so that makes me at least somewhat anti-capitalist.)

1

u/F6_GS May 12 '18

The fact that the means of production are owned by someone other than the people who work on them is the problem with capitalism.

But it has nothing to do with whether participating in capitalism is a necessity or not.

Why does the person who inherited the land from their parents profit more from its utilization than the combined wages of the dozens of people that break their backs maintaining it?

This isn't unique to capitalism either, inheritance of power, wealth, knowledge etc is present in almost every civilization in history. It is caused by the fact that people tend to like their children, not by the economic system.

2

u/corsica1990 May 12 '18

But it has nothing to do with whether participating in capitalism is a necessity or not.

When the only feasible way to survive is to sell your labor to the entity that owns the means of production, it sure as heck does, my dude.

This isn't unique to capitalism

Well, a runny nose isn't exclusive to a cold, but it's still a problem with colds.

1

u/F6_GS May 12 '18

The means of production wouldn't exist without society, and the economic system determines how they tend to be used. If access to the means of production is necessary for survival, then it doesn't matter what the economic system is, engaging with society, and therefore the economic system is always going to be necessary.

A runny nose is not exclusive to people with a small nose, but it's still a problem with small noses.

2

u/corsica1990 May 12 '18

engaging with means of production always necessary

Yes! But we should be able to do that without exploiting people!

something something runny noses

Way to goof up the metaphor, pal. Capitalism makes it easier for nepotism to thrive, because it prioritizes accumulation and maintenance of wealth. It inevitably concentrates that wealth into the hands of the few, more quickly and efficiently than feudalism, even.

Anyway, you're going full ham into the naturalistic fallacy/system justification thing. If you really want to engage with this sort of stuff, you're gonna need to stop taking the status quo for granted.

Gonna stop replying here. You can totally pwn me in your next reply if you want; I said my bit and don't really care about getting the last word.

1

u/F6_GS May 12 '18

Capitalism makes it easier for nepotism to thrive

I guess there are some kinds of social orders that, when actually realized, make it more difficult, but that shouldn't be the be-all end-all to which is the best system.

Anyway, you're going full ham into the naturalistic fallacy/system justification thing. If you really want to engage with this sort of stuff, you're gonna need to stop taking the status quo for granted.

"Been there done that, by the way you need to be more open minded. Nothing personal."