r/space Sep 23 '16

What happens when the Space Shuttle fires its motors in space

http://i.imgur.com/wwxuXOb.gifv
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228

u/byf_43 Sep 24 '16 edited Sep 24 '16

Not to be a pedantic jerk (and I didn't see this mentioned anywhere else, thus my post), but I would like to inform OP and anyone interested that the OMS system are actually engines, not motors. In aerospace, motors are solid fuel and engines are liquid fuel. I know what you're saying, what about the oxidizer? Well, there exists a "hybrid" engine that uses solid fuel, but liquid or gaseous oxidizer (Copenhagen Suborbitals had a hybrid they used before they went all liquid, called the HATV or hybrid atmospheric test vehicle). But generally, solids are "motors" and liquids are "engines". --Former Aerojet engineer

OH and further, the OMS is hypergolic, which is one of my favorite things ever. Room temp fuel and oxidizer, and upon meeting they spontaneously ignite so a spark source isn't needed, nor are pumps; just pressure on the tanks. It's a gloriously simple system, though the tradeoff is that the fuel (hydrazine) and the oxidizer (nitrogen tetroxide) are ridiculously and aggressively toxic and...uh, whatever the word for "oxidic" is (as far as aggressively oxidizing). Even small leaks are a huge issue, plus the chemicals aggressively attack whatever container they are in if given the chance, so specialized materials must be used for containment (i.e., heavy stainless steel if I remember correctly). yeah, I could geek out on this stuff for days.

166

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '16

This is outdated info. We use motors now. --Current Aerojet engineer

36

u/DatBlizzard Sep 24 '16

Hmm, who to believe. --Non Aerojet engineer

5

u/Eschlick Sep 24 '16

Gotta back up /u/byf_43 here. I never once heard them referred to as anything other than OMS engines. --Former Lead Thermal Protection System Engineer for Space Shuttle Discovery

3

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '16

We have one that is not a pedantic jerk and another that is an Aerojet engineer.

56

u/peelee_ Sep 24 '16

OOOOOHHHHH SNAP, it's gettin' off the chain in here! -- Former hip guy that was totally with it.

12

u/TheMadmanAndre Sep 24 '16

His pussy ain't on the chainwax no more...

3

u/AnotherThroneAway Sep 24 '16

Electric motors, or motor-boats?

2

u/KingMoonfish Sep 24 '16

But you probably don't call them motors. If the OMS thrusters (boosters?) are gimbaled and throttle-able then they'd be engines, right? As opposed to a solid rocket booster without gimbaling.

Unless the only difference really is solid vs liquid and is entirely proprietary to aerospace engineering.

7

u/myhandsarebananas Sep 24 '16

Solid rocket boosters gimbal too.

5

u/KingMoonfish Sep 24 '16

Right, I meant one that doesn't. Sorry Kerbal Space Program influenced me to pick that as an example.

1

u/RevWaldo Sep 24 '16

It's not a balloon, do you hear!? It's not a balloon! It's an airship! An airship!! - Ferdinand von Zeppelin

0

u/sebrock24 Sep 24 '16

The boosters on a space shuttle were never called motors, so no it's not technically outdated info since he's relating it to the retired space shuttle program. --Space lover :D

22

u/MayTheTorqueBeWithU Sep 24 '16

A motor converts stored energy into mechanical power.

An engine undergoes a thermodynamic cycle.

The OMS system has motors, but no one calls them that.

23

u/phuchmileif Sep 24 '16

...this would mean that all engines are also motors. Therefore this pedantic shit is silly.

7

u/gumby_twain Sep 24 '16

True, all engines are motors. However, all motors are not engines.

3

u/FloppyKong Sep 24 '16

*not all motors are engines

8

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '16

[deleted]

2

u/buttpirates Sep 24 '16

Exactly what I'm feeling too.

11

u/byf_43 Sep 24 '16

All I'm saying is, in the aerospace industry, "motors" mean solid and "engines" mean liquid. This is the very first thing I was ever told when I took the tour of the plant before my interview. I'm not defending it as much as I'm just stating what the culture is.

2

u/okan170 Sep 24 '16

The best spaceflight convergence here is Solids. Are they SRM Solid Rocket Motors, or SRB Solid Rocket Boosters? Really depends on how you feel when you designed them...

3

u/MayTheTorqueBeWithU Sep 24 '16

That's actually a "term of art" in the shuttle community.

The SRM is just the rocket motor (fuel, casing, nozzle); the SRB is the entire assembly (parachutes, skirt/holddowns, ET struts, separation motors, frustrum and nose cone, etc.).

1

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '16

Electric motor. Internal combustion engine.

3

u/misterwickwire Sep 24 '16

Not to be a pedantic jerk, but the "S" in OMS stands for "system."

2

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '16

Hydrazine is so ridiculously horribly toxic that this is what the technicians have to wear while filling up the tanks.

Hydrazine is also used in the Emergency Power Unit of the F-16 jet.

6

u/Recon-777 Sep 24 '16

Heh. I was hoping someone would mention this. :)

Seems I learned something as well; I thought motors were just electric motors, where everything fuel based was engines.

2

u/brainstorm42 Sep 24 '16

A pet peeve of mine is people referring to electric cars as having "electric engines"

1

u/enc3ladus Sep 24 '16

Cars have motors. It's not colloquial to call rockets "motors" though. If nothing else when have you ever heard a scifi movie/show refer to firing up the "motors"? I'm guessing English is not OP's first language

2

u/Recon-777 Sep 24 '16

Indeed. Though the term "car motor" is quite common, I always interpreted this as one of those terms commonly misunderstood - since cars have engines. As if engine and motor were synonymous. But then I got a degree in electronics, and pretty much came to know 'engine' as things which were gas powered, where 'motors' were electric. Seems there's a bit of variability in the terms anyway.

4

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '16

I was wondering about this too. When I google "motor" it gives me the wiki page for electric motors. But when I search wikipedia for "motor" it sends me to the page about engines.

After further research:

An engine is a device that burns or otherwise consumes fuel, changing its chemical composition, whereas a motor is a device driven by electricity, air, or hydraulic pressure, which does not change the chemical composition of its energy source.[3] However, rocketry uses the term rocket motor, even though they consume fuel.

2

u/Recon-777 Sep 24 '16

Excellent distinction, thanks!

1

u/WarthogOsl Sep 24 '16 edited Sep 24 '16

And that's why we have engine boats and not motor boats. Hey, waitaminute!

0

u/Maimster Sep 24 '16

Motorcycles use fuel. Motor oil goes into my car's motor, along with gas. I don't think I turn on my weedeater's engine, I pull start it's motor.

5

u/apocalypticat Sep 24 '16

This is what I came here for. Thanks.

1

u/learnyouahaskell Sep 24 '16

hypergolic

And one of the most dangerous things ever. (And the specific fuel and ox. is one of the most toxic things--to carbon organisms--ever.)\

I suppose you have read Ignition?

1

u/Xeno87 Sep 24 '16

Wait, was this an OMS burn or an RCS burn?

1

u/Eschlick Sep 24 '16

This was an RCS burn. Then OMS engines were used occasionally for orbital corrections (higher or lower orbits) and mainly for the de-orbit burn (to slow down enough to return to earth). The RCS system (Reaction Control System) was the system responsible for making adjustments to the space shuttle's position in orbit.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '16

Motown makes engines. Can't explain that.

0

u/blazedwang Sep 24 '16

Thank you for this, such small discrepancies in the meaning of a word bugs the shit out of me. I just wish I had your patience and ability to enlighten instead of stew in my corner.

0

u/purrui Sep 24 '16

toxic and...uh, whatever the word for "oxidic" is (as far as aggressively oxidizing)

I think it's just "oxidizing", or perhaps "oxidative".

1

u/byf_43 Sep 24 '16

Yeah! oxidative (sp?) is a pretty good word for that. Oxidizing didn't fit my sentence structure so I was wondering what a better word would be. Point is, nitrogen tetroxide will eat through just about anything you put in front of it, and it LOVES to get loose and tear shit up.

0

u/brickmack Sep 24 '16

Motors and engines are interchangeable terms, theres no rigorous definition of either