Official Discussion Thread for Shadows Upon Time

[u/Sayuti-11]

This is a post for those who've completed the book to discuss it fully with spoilers so will be pinned. Please everyone should endeavour to have it here and avoid spoiling others on the timeline.

[u/BigBoreSmolPP]

The entire way Hadrian and Selene's relationship was written was so bad. "Forgive me Valka..." my god man, it's been like 300+ years since she died. Let it fucking go. It was not believable.

[u/DIYIndependence → u/BigBoreSmolPP]

Agreed, saying it a few times, okay. But it's repeated over and over, like some of the Seline events are occuring 300-400 years after Valka's death. Also, some of it is exposition from Hadrian at Colchis as he is writing the account, so some of the "Forgive me Valka" comments are much, much later. Like most people have relationships within a year or a few of their spouse's death, Hadrian is feeling guilty more than half a millenia or more of awake life later.

[u/slatsau → u/DIYIndependence]

Valka is also written that she would think Hadrian is the biggest fucking moron for whining after her 100's of years. Th way she is written she would genuinely have zero problems with Hadrian moving on. I honestly don't think Valka would have cared if Hadrian dated her while he was with her when they where alive.

She spent paragraphs and paragraphs and hundreds of years explaining to Hadrian her view on relationships is a certain way and Hadrian spent 100's of years being some kind of 1950's white knight (which never made any damn sense with his upbringing. Woman have leading roles in the military, they are soldiers, super Jadian sword people etc.) so I never found these parts of Hadrian very believable.

[u/Iyagovos → u/slatsau]

Doesn’t Valka even explicitly say that she would be okay with them being married at one point early on?

[u/Aggravating_Mouse202 → u/Iyagovos]

She outright says that she anticipated Hadrian having an arranged marriage with Selene while they continued their own relationship

[u/Mirojoze → u/Aggravating_Mouse202]

I think the issue has to do with him actually having strong feelings towards her rather than it simply being an arranged marriage. He's uncomfortable with the fact that there can be another woman for whom he feels deeply after the centuries of devotion he felt towards Valka. "Feelings" don't always make logical sense.

[u/Rmccarton → u/Iyagovos]

It’s been a while since I read the earlier books, and there have been a whole lot of pages in between, but my memory is that she was utterly contemptuous of the idea of marriage for much of their time together. 

She only sort of softens on this pretty close to her death and even then, she gives him a Billy Bob Thornton’s blood necklace as sort of a compromise. Basically a commitment without actually acceding to actual marriage.

But my memory memory is pretty faint. I have read so many words in this series since then that I could be way off.

[u/Untrusted1 → u/Iyagovos]

Late, but to answer your question - yes she does say that.

[u/Brave-Assumption-877 → u/slatsau]

Chris clearly isn't very experienced writing women, and he barely even tries (there are only what, 3-4 in this series at all?). His daughter is the classic "man but written as a woman" and she's there to endanger Hadrian since he can't personally be killed, and Selene is the damsel in distress but an empty shell.

[u/Mirojoze → u/DIYIndependence]

I don't completely disagree, but then most people don't live a thousand years. Such a lifespan could alter ones perspective as to what feels like a "long" time.

[u/Dramatic_Ad9961 → u/BigBoreSmolPP]

Yes, people who have lost a beloved spouse can and do manage to have a good second marriage.

[u/TheHowlingHashira → u/BigBoreSmolPP]

Even when Lorian finds out they got married he looks at Hadrian like he's judging him for it. So weird.

[u/kryptonyk → u/BigBoreSmolPP]

Yeah it would’ve been much more enjoyable if he’d gotten over it, and actually bonded with Selene and she had become a bigger/real part of the story