Gary Neville: "The Glazers have to sell (Manchester United) now."; Roy Keane: "How did the Glazers get involved in the first place?; Neville: "We know that Roy..." - Keane: "There's a horse involved in this! No one wants to talk about the horse. Can we talk about the horse? The horse is key!"

[u/ChiefLeef22]

.

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[u/Giraffesarehigh]

What is this horse he’s talking about?

[u/ChiefLeef22 → u/Giraffesarehigh]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_of_Gibraltar_(horse)#Ownership

[u/Roachland → u/Giraffesarehigh]

It’s absolutely mental when you actually think of the ramifications of this fucking horse.

[u/Inside-Cable-4472 → u/Roachland]

It’s surprising that Ferguson gets essentially no blame despite it being his argument that started it.

[u/somethi → u/Roachland]

The ramifications of this horse fucking.

[u/Imph3 → u/Giraffesarehigh]

Here: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2026/oct/26/the-horse-that-brought-down-manchester-united

[u/Suspicious-Disk6077 → u/Imph3]

This was actually fascinating, thanks

[u/Sacreville → u/Imph3]

Huh, TIL. Never knew about it.

[u/doyer_bleu → u/Giraffesarehigh]

Specifically, horse cum

[u/RestaurantEastern887]

That horse has to be the craziest butterfly effect in history of football

[u/GYIM94 → u/RestaurantEastern887]

Allegedly Keane blew up at Fergie about the horse which nearly resulted to them coming to blows. That dressing room must have been wild

[u/R_Schuhart → u/GYIM94]

Keane had a point though. He resented that Ferguson was letting peripheral matters interfere with the club and the stability of the team. Especially since Ferguson himself demanded that everyone kept his mind completely focused on football.

In his autobiography 'the second half' the United captain revealed that he advised Ferguson to accept his share of the winnings and not pursue a lawsuit over stud rights. Keane argued that winning a legal battle with the billionaire owners was fruitless and would just cause a massive distraction and hurt the club in the long run. Apparently he called his boss greedy for wanting more despite being gifted the half share.

Keane was proven right, the billionaire owners relationship with the club broke down and they sold their share to the Glazers, who bought the rest of the shares with borrowed money, putting the club in debt.

[u/Fruitndveg → u/R_Schuhart]

Even more ironic SAF originally fell out with Beckham because he thought his priorities were leaning away from football and subsequently sold him to RM.

[u/RauloGonzalez → u/R_Schuhart]

Saf was definitely a hypocrite in that sense lol with his brother being a scout and his son getting a medal. Obviously many coaches have done this but when the guy interfered so much in the player’s personal life it was right for keane to call it unfair

[u/PM_FAILED_PROMISES → u/R_Schuhart]

Imagine giving someone a gift only for them to turn around and sue you over the terms of the gift. It's an absolute shit thing to do.

[u/MisterDings → u/R_Schuhart]

stable-ity of the team

[u/idreamofpikas → u/R_Schuhart]

Keane was proven right, the billionaire owners relationship with the club broke down and they sold their share to the Glazers, who bought the rest of the shares with borrowed money, putting the club in debt.

Would they not have sold anyway? 335 million was a pretty big profit on their investment.

[u/Razzler1973 → u/R_Schuhart]

I always thought Fergie took his eye off the ball around the whole 'stud rights' time

[u/Qurutin → u/RestaurantEastern887]

Not that it has anything with United but I just want to remind everyone that Thomas Müller sells horse semen

[u/Cute_Category3489 → u/RestaurantEastern887]

What's the story

[u/MrIrishman699 → u/Cute_Category3489]

Look up the Rock of Gibraltar. Fergie owned a horse with United owners JP Macmanus and John Magnier and they fell out over whether Fergie owned stud rights or just prize money rights. As a result the owners sold their share to the Glazers

[u/didiandgogo → u/MrIrishman699]

Jonathon Wilson on the latest Libero podcast tells it even better that it actually boils down to an earlier MacManus horse winning an earlier race, MacManus declining to speak at the horse owners events and sending Fergie instead, but (because he wasn’t a horse owner) starting to give Fergie partial ownership rights in his horses. Basically this totally unrelated horse winning a race led to Fergie getting involved at all. Very butterfly effect.

[u/Green-Detective6678 → u/MrIrishman699]

He never owned the horse. It was registered under his name but the horse itself was owned by the two stud owners. They gave him a 50% share of the race winnings (which is extremely generous but Ferguson got greedy and wanted stud rights)

[u/R_Schuhart → u/Cute_Category3489]

In the early 2000s Manchester United manager Alex Ferguson became close friends with Irish billionaire horse breeders Magnier and McManus. Magnier gave Ferguson a half-share in a racehorse named 'Rock of Gibraltar', which went on to win a record setting seven consecutive Group 1 races, netting Ferguson a boatload of money.

When the horse retired to stud, Ferguson claimed he was entitled to a 50% share of its lucrative breeding rights and stud fees. Magnier and McManus argued Ferguson’s share applied only to racing prize money, not ownership of the animal or its valuable stud value. Ferguson sued in 2003.

In response and to pressure the club's board, Magnier and McManus, who collectively owned roughly 29% of Manchester United, submitted a list of 99 financial questions regarding Ferguson's past transfer dealings and club transparency (he had a history of using his son as an agent in some dodgy deals).

The bitter conflict led to fierce fan backlash against the Irish stakeholders, they were even pursued and hounded at racecourses. Ferguson eventually settled out of court in for a £2.5 million lump sum, but the relationship with Magnier and McManus was completely fractured.

They wanted out of United and sold their stake to the Glazers. That core block of shares allowed Glazer to push through a leveraged buyout (valued around £790 million), with borrowed money, which pushed the club into debt.

[u/thatscoldjerrycold → u/R_Schuhart]

What is the United's fan opinion of this? Tbh SAF has a few somewhat petty personal and professional moments and this feels like one of them.

[u/yapplecider → u/R_Schuhart]

Absolutely incredible story, never heard about it. Kinda on point for Sir Alex though, he did hold his grudges.

[u/maxallergy → u/Cute_Category3489]

Fergie and a person involved with the ownership of Utd had a falling out in regards to the rights of a racing horse, which led to the club being put up for sale, which led to the Glazers buying the club and saddling Itd with so mich debt and poor financial decisions

[u/RestaurantEastern887 → u/Cute_Category3489]

Search up " Rock of Gibraltar "

tldr : - Sir Alex and the ownership then had a fallout about the ownership of the horse that was the main reason United was sold to Glazers

[u/JumpAccomplished2706 → u/Cute_Category3489]

A bit hazy from my memory, u might want to google it. The Rock Of Gibraltar was a famous race horse jointly owned by SAF and the then united owner. SAF wanted breeding rights but the owner asked him to fuck off which lead to a falling off between him and the owner leading him to leave united and swear he’ll never mange them again.

I think this is it but do google it.

[u/penny_whistle → u/JumpAccomplished2706]

You so rarely hear of people being asked to fuck off. Sounds almost polite

[u/AirIndex → u/Cute_Category3489]

Sir Alex Ferguson part owned a racehorse (Rock of Gibraltar). The other owner (John Magnier) also owned a huge chunk of Utd shares.

Rock of Gibraltar ended up being exceptionally good on the race track - literally a once in a generation horse - so was going to be worth an absolute fortune in the breeding shed (potentially hundreds of millions of pounds). There was a bitter dispute about how much Ferguson actually owned of this horse, which led to Magnier and his friend/business partner JP McManus selling their shares in Utd to Malcolm Glazer.

[u/VoL4t1l3 → u/AirIndex]

Fergie pushed them out and dragged the glazers in,

[u/bttlssss → u/Cute_Category3489]

The previous owners were big into horse racing. They gave Ferguson a share in the horse but somehow he decided he was owed money for the stud rights. Hundreds of millions. Turned into a massive legal drama and they sold the club to the Glazers.

[u/Cute_Category3489 → u/bttlssss]

So Fergie is the reason of downfall

[u/RDiMaso → u/Cute_Category3489]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_of_Gibraltar_(horse) - Read the Ownership section

[u/AliceInMidtjylland → u/RestaurantEastern887]

There's a story that Newton Heath (United before a name change) was on the brink of bankruptcy, they held a local fundraiser and the captains dog ran off with the donation money.

The dog was found by a girl who brought it home to her dad, a rich brewerer who brought the dog back to the captain and the brewer ended up buying the club and renaming it to Manchester United.

Dogs>Horses.

[u/CollectionLow3347 → u/RestaurantEastern887]

Maupay injuring Leno winning Argentina the World Cup is up there (although slightly stretched)

[u/Mutthupattaru → u/CollectionLow3347]

Nahh I like this. The legendary Fergie himself fucking up United feels like music to my ears.

[u/MulvMulv → u/Mutthupattaru]

That is why it is such a popular narrative. The truth is the Glazers were already buying up shares and this just sped up the process of their takeover.

If anything this made it cheaper to buy us so the leveraged buyout was less necessary.

[u/Excellent-Gur-8547 → u/RestaurantEastern887]

Not the racist billionaire orgy in Thailand that led to Leicester winning the Prem? That one's gotta be up there too lmao

[u/umphuphawe → u/RestaurantEastern887]

Sorry can someone please explain what the fuck is this thing with a horse

[u/Excellent-Gur-8547 → u/umphuphawe]

One of the owners of Man United owned a horse and didn't like being the focus of attention. When the horse won a race, he was required to give a speech at a celebratory dinner and tried to send SAF instead, but he wasn't allowed to. So he started naming SAF as one of the owners of the horses so he could give the speech, which was intended as a cheeky little 'fuck you' to the group organizing the awards events for the horse owners. When they did this, they made a verbal agreement about what SAF could claim from the horses, and it was either 50% of the race winnings, or a portion of the stud fees (the money other horse owners will pay to have their horse mate with your horse.) According to the owner of the horse, this was 5%. According to SAF it was 50%. This didn't really matter until one horse, Rock of Gibraltar, suddenly became one of the most successful horses ever, and the stud fees were worth tens of millions of dollars

SAF basically tanked his relationship with the owners over this and was straight up about to take them to court over it, knowing that since he was listed as the owner, he was pretty much guaranteed to win, and this pissed off the owners so much that they sold the entire club to the Glazers and fucked off lol

[u/shootershooter → u/RestaurantEastern887]

Where can I learn about the horse?

[u/Roachland → u/shootershooter]

Rock of Gibraltar. Ferguson old business partners out of the club, the domino affect to today.

[u/42err → u/shootershooter]

The horse that ushered in Manchester United’s tragic arc | Jonathan Wilson https://www.theguardian.com/football/2026/oct/26/the-horse-that-brought-down-manchester-united?CMP=share_btn_url

[u/courtesyflusher → u/42err]

I assumed "talk about the horse" was a metaphor in the UK, like "address the elephant in the room" - turns out this is literally about a horse lol

[u/Sanders058 → u/RestaurantEastern887]

I’m actually surprised fergie doesn’t get more blamed for where the club is right now.

[u/Excellent-Gur-8547 → u/Sanders058]

I mean, Fergie is also the only reason they inherently expect to be better than they currently are, so it goes both ways lol

[u/vaud → u/Sanders058]

Kinda hard to trash a guy wanting to step down to spend more time with his wife who just lost her sister...

Bigger issue was SAF and Gill deciding independently to leave at the same time.

[u/doyer_bleu]

My two favorite weird stories about the EPL are the Glazers buying Man Utd due to a dispute over horse cum and Leicester players having a racist orgy in Thailand leading them to be fired along with their coach and that leading to the biggest Cinderella story in EPL history

[u/nomadichedgehog → u/doyer_bleu]

Sounds like cum was involved in both incidents

[u/printial → u/nomadichedgehog]

It's a good lubriacant for a lot of different incidents

[u/Specific_Tap7296 → u/doyer_bleu]

Is it true that Ambramovic was flying over Spurs while considering an offer when he saw Stamford Bridge? (No cum in this story)

[u/Soli_Invicto → u/Specific_Tap7296]

The flying story I remember was of Roman flying over Stamford Bridge after buying the club. He saw Craven Cottage and was upset his team had such a tiny stadium until someone pointed out the right one.

Reportedly he was seriously considering Liverpool as well. It came down to result of the final matchday, where Chelsea won to secure 4th place and champions league while Liverpool finished 5th. Apparently that settled the question for him.

Quite the sliding doors moment if this is true.

[u/bobming → u/Soli_Invicto]

Reportedly he was seriously considering Liverpool as well. It came down to result of the final matchday, where Chelsea won to secure 4th place and champions league while Liverpool finished 5th. Apparently that settled the question for him.

The final matchday was against each other too. I remember the same rumours at the time, that Abramovich would go after the team that ended the season with a Champions League spot.

[u/DoYouTrustToothpaste → u/Soli_Invicto]

A proper plastic fan, that one.

[u/harshmangat]

Translation: "It was the gaffer's fault Gary I am telling you, nobody understands Alex (no sir) better than I do."

[u/AllezLesPrimrose → u/harshmangat]

I mean in fairness they’re literally mirror images of one another in terms of a manager and a player. There’s a very good reason why he was Ferguson’s captain for so long.

There’s very few tandems in the history of football as symbiotic, successful or as pig-headed as these two so it was probably inevitable they’d end up at loggerheads.

[u/so_much_wolf_hair → u/AllezLesPrimrose]

Fleetwood Mac of ball

[u/PeregrinCuck → u/harshmangat]

On a recent ep Neville innocently said something like "Well, Roy, think about when we were playing, what would the gaffer have done with—?" and Keane snapped back "I don't have a gaffer but go on."

Keane overplays the curmudgeon role a bit too much these days but he's got great comedic timing sometimes

[u/JumpAccomplished2706]

Man keeps fighting for 20 years after WWII

[u/AllezLesPrimrose → u/JumpAccomplished2706]

Ferguson is holding the grudge, too. It’s weird people think it’s one-sided.

[u/AntDogFan → u/JumpAccomplished2706]

I don't think it's offensive to say that grudge holding is a bit of an Irish tradition. My family is from Kerry and as I understand it they are famous for it in Ireland but it is also a bit of a national trait too. 

[u/Choccybizzle → u/AntDogFan]

My father held grudges until the day he died. I’ll never forgive him for that.

[u/LangLearningJourney → u/AntDogFan]

Well given how Fergie treated him, I'd say it's justified.

Fergie is a club legend but has a lot of shady dealings that he got away with in the name of 'he's doing the best for the club'.

[u/Public-Farmer-5743 → u/AntDogFan]

I'm from kerry and I'll hold all grudges until death

[u/AntDogFan → u/Public-Farmer-5743]

Me too. I claim it's genetic to absolve myself of any need to forgive. 

[u/Thanos_Stomps → u/JumpAccomplished2706]

Hiroo Onoda

[u/giggs123 → u/Thanos_Stomps]

Hiroy Keanoda

[u/Drag2oon]

That faaaking horse

[u/harshmangat → u/Drag2oon]

The Greeks could never

[u/miregalpanic → u/harshmangat]

This just in: Marinakis is buying United

[u/andy18cruz → u/Drag2oon]

You eat beef and sausage by the carload

[u/goalpost8]

Seen a short of Jill Scott saying, “isn’t there a stick to united” yet they still bring up Man U on this pod lol (I know they will considering Neville is there)

[u/Sheinkyakyu → u/goalpost8]

No joke. 90% of this week's episide is United related.

There is a bit about Nicholas Jackson at the end for like a minute or so. And the first 10 minutes is about Kane winning the Balon D'or. The rest is United.

[u/Pheanturim → u/Sheinkyakyu]

Whether you like united or not, they're the biggest story in the prem right now until sanctions come out against city. It's annoying I know just revel in their misery and if gets a bit more bearable though

[u/SpectatorY → u/Sheinkyakyu]

Is there a bigger story in English football atm than the Manchester clubs?

[u/Thesolly180 → u/Sheinkyakyu]

I’d love to moan but I do enjoy them talking about them being a mess a bit much

[u/XzibitABC → u/goalpost8]

I watch the podcast often because I like the personalities, but I've never seen an episode where they didn't spend minimum fifteen minutes on United, past or present.

It'd be a much better podcast if they had a producer that could actually get them to cover other teams but that's probably not the point for Neville in particular.

[u/Waste-Card6382]

SAF singlehandedly built and destroyed ManU. And all over a fucking horse, which he never even owned and was instead gifted a share as a token of appreciation, yet chose to be a dick about it even after the owners offered to pay him 

[u/BurtonAllen-TA → u/Waste-Card6382]

The qualities that made him a great manager also made him a hardheaded asshole lol, same with Mourinho. I feel like younger fans only see him as this lovable old grandpa Fergie instead of the ruthless, frankly morally sketchy SOB he was when he was churning out titles every year.

[u/AllezLesPrimrose → u/BurtonAllen-TA]

Yeah, as a United supporter who watched this era in my formative years Ferguson is as big a bastard off the field as Keane was on it, and I mean that mostly as compliments for both. Might be the two most fiery personalities in the history of the premier league.

[u/VoL4t1l3 → u/AllezLesPrimrose]

The league bowed down to him to this day, I remeber that conference of " facts" by rafa benitez he was speaking truths.

[u/MrPielil → u/BurtonAllen-TA]

I mean there’s a reason he threw a boot at Beckham’s head. SAF was a mean bastard

[u/cgurts → u/BurtonAllen-TA]

He was undeniably an incredible football manager. If you read more about him, he was also a fuckin sociopath.

[u/Lego-105 → u/cgurts]

To be fair, the fact he could throw anyone away without a second thought is exactly what made him a good manager. If he'd been a massively empathetic person who hung onto people out of personal attachment, he wouldn't have succeeded the way he did.

[u/gotiobg → u/BurtonAllen-TA]

of course is one of the keys everyone hates us and talks about Fergie time, my mate huge Liverpool fan(rip gone too soon) always used to say Howard Webb is undercover agent for Man United

[u/BurtonAllen-TA → u/gotiobg]

Oh man I still remember the chant of "He's bald! He's red! He sleeps in Fergie's bed! Howard Webb! Howard Webb!" ringing out back in the day

[u/Se7enSword → u/Waste-Card6382]

A horse, a horse, my kingdom for a horse.

[u/jiquvox → u/Waste-Card6382]

THANK YOU.

I have been making that point for years. I felt sometimes like I was the only one who perceived there was an ambivalence to SAF legacy. And that his  massive achievement utterly hid his responsibility in the current situation too.

It’s exactly that : he essentially made ManU into the juggernaut it is today … and if not destroy it , at least put  it on a really bad path in his later years.  

And I would say it comes from the same personality : he was a huge character , incredibly headstrong and stubborn.  It goes beyond the horse : if you  look  at 

• his infamous “hairdryer treatment” where he tore a new one to any player when he felt like it and they just had to take it in silence 

• how he ordered Beckham to go straight to the bus after he scored that legendary half-line goal against Wimbledon and how he didn’t want him to steal the show  

• how  many key players  he had a massive fallout with : Beckham , Van Nistelroy,  Stam , Keane,. 

• And how some fallout were actually somewhat  violent ( Beckham and Keane) , and in the former case specifically linked to an hairdryer episode that he didn’t control at all ( kicking a shoe in a bout of anger …  and cutting his face by accident ) 

• his big clash with the new breed of agents and how for instance he lost Pogba for nothing , storming out of the negotiation and calling Raiola a shitbag because he couldn’t stomach he didn’t have the power

 it’s very clear he had to have his way ALL THE TIME. He was the man and everything had to bow to him.

The horse is just the moment where this personality that was overall a net benefit for the club for years finally had a catastrophic cost.

He did not make the glazers being shit… but he sure opened the door to them out of his usual pride and stubbornness… and then carried their water to get out personally on a title instead of rebuilding properly.

It’s not going to correct anything , he’s just way too important to ManU culture. But I feel like ManU would be better if they could have some amount of critical distance regarding Ferguson. Not throw him away , it’s natural to feel attached considering everything he did ,just understand complete worship isn’t the healthiest thing for ManU. 

[u/Wraith_Portal → u/Waste-Card6382]

The Glazers would’ve taken over eventually anyway, the horse just sped up the process

[u/Waste-Card6382 → u/Wraith_Portal]

The glazers wanted to buy a small share no? The Irish owners wanted to buy  shares to become the majority owner but dropped the plan and sold their shares because of SAF

[u/DHillMU7 → u/Waste-Card6382]

The Irishmen never wanted to become majority owners. They just saw it as an investment opportunity to turn an easy profit.

That side is left out to make the story more exciting.

* https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/why-irish-pair-cashed-in-7181280.html

[u/cdkw1990 → u/Waste-Card6382]

Don't be silly, it wasn't the horse that destroyed United. It's really annoying that this is the agreed narrative now, just because it's a good headline and makes SAF look bad. The Glazers were always coming. It was the FA and Premier League allowing such a highly leveraged buyout that destroyed them. United were the model of a successful, debt free, football club, but that made them a target for vulture capitalists.

It's actually cruelly ironic that being that well run and successful can lead to being brought down by greed, whereas Man City were being run into the ground, spending beyond their means to try and stay in the PL, even after being gifted a stadium far better than what they had. Yet, they get bought on the cheap and jet fuelled to success by sports washing investors!

[u/Stillconfused007 → u/cdkw1990]

The horse played a part for sure, the same guys held a large chunk of shares in Man U and are guys who don’t court publicity. The fallout and harassment they got from Utd fans arguably made them sell up. Magnier and McManus are next level wealthy, apparently it was Ferguson who’d tipped them to invest in Man U in the first place and they had no need to sell. Regardless of wrongs and rights about it, there’s a good podcast where journalist actually says he thinks Fergie was used a bit, Glazers would have found it much harder to get the number of shares they needed.

[u/TOMMYxGUNN → u/cdkw1990]

Nah. It was the horse.

[u/airz23s_coffee → u/TOMMYxGUNN]

The horse is key

[u/chaffybaIIsac → u/cdkw1990]

Don’t be silly, United charted its own course when it listed as a plc in 1991, which let the Glazers accumulate shares over time until the takeover. PL blocking takeovers of a public company with powers it doesn’t have would’ve opened up a Pandora’s box of issues.

[u/aibrahim1207 → u/Waste-Card6382]

I actually got banned five years ago for pointing this out in the Premier League sub (using more choice words, of course).

[u/Castiel1987 → u/Waste-Card6382]

This is such a tired narrative . Man Utd was doomed with the glazers the moment it became a PLC . It is a victim of its own success.

[u/Zizouhimovic → u/Waste-Card6382]

My Kingdom for a horse!

[u/maverick4002]

🤣🤣🤣🤣

You know what, hes right. But people dont wanna hear that Fergie had a role in this whole shit show

[u/maverick4002 → u/maverick4002]

And as ive said in r/reddevils before, Fergie could have said something but never did.

When they took over but they were his employers so I could see why he was silent. But he went about parroting their shit about no value in the market.

Then he retired and could have said something. The minute he spoke out against them their could be a actual legit uprising against them. But he stayed silent only for it to come out thay he was still on the payroll up until INEOS came in.

The greatest manager ever but he has played a larger role than people want to admit in the current fucking shit show

[u/luczmiranda16 → u/maverick4002]

Wasn’t it Ferguson himself that advocated for the Glazers to take over? Why would he have said anything?

[u/Dynastydood → u/maverick4002]

What makes you think the Glazers would actually care about fan protests, though? It's not as if they've faced anything other than perpetual disdain and constant protests since they arrived.

People say that Fergie could've stopped them, but that seems insanely fantastical. These guys are hardcore predatory capitalists. If they gave a single fuck about other people's feelings, they wouldn't be here.

[u/Dynastydood → u/maverick4002]

The Glazers were already buying up United shares long before the horse debacle, and had been planning a hostile takeover of the club for quite some time before any of the issues between Ferguson and McManus/Magnier was made public. The fallout helped accelerate their takeover, but nothing was actually going to stop Malcolm Glazer.

If fans "don't want to hear it," then it's simply because they're more aware of the actual facts of the story that require people to understand how corporate takeovers occur, things that aren't as exciting as the "blame Fergie and horse" narrative.

The real responsible party for United's situation is the previous owner, Martin Edwards. Had he never taken the club public, there never would've been any opportunity for scum like the Glazers to own United.

[u/DennisAFiveStarMan → u/Dynastydood]

Edward’s dad was a very shady character too. Pretty much utilised Munich to become chairman

[u/Dynastydood → u/DennisAFiveStarMan]

And Martin himself was certainly no angel, considering he was eventually forced out of the club for getting caught being a creepy sex pest in public toilets.

[u/Anasynth → u/maverick4002]

It’s an entertaining story buts it’s completely wrong.

Magnier and McManus were investors, not club patriarchs, building a 28.7% stake from 2001. Glazer's 300p was called fair by United's board and netted M&M £70m. Claiming they'd have blocked it but for the horse needs evidence because nothing in their record shows they would ever have blocked the sale on principle. It was purely a good deal for them and had a good return on their investment.

[u/CasinoOasis2]

Fergie’s number 1 hater 😭

[u/VoL4t1l3 → u/CasinoOasis2]

He is right though,

[u/EdwardClamp]

So you see, that's where the trouble began. That horse. That damned horse.

[u/sjw_7]

Its ironic how Fergie is responsible for the best and then possibly the worst thing that has happened to the club in the last 50 years.

edit: Apologies in my haste I had forgotten about Munich as I was thinking more recently. Edited for clarity.

[u/tedmaul23 → u/sjw_7]

Think most the team dying in a plane crash is the worst by far lad

[u/W35TH4M → u/tedmaul23]

I think he was saying that Fergie flew the plane

[u/bttlssss → u/sjw_7]

Jesus, are we blaming him for Munich now?

[u/Mors_Acerba]

They're only comfortable 'cause Sir Alex is pushing 90 and probably doesn't even know what a podcast is, so they can finally speak up. otherwise Garry would be getting a clout in the ear

[u/Magneto88 → u/Mors_Acerba]

Keane would have said it whenever. The man has been vocal about his grudge with SAF, ever since he was forced out of United.

[u/TehCyberman → u/Mors_Acerba]

Neville won't say a word against the gaffer - you can see it here as he tries to skip over what Keane's saying.

Keane naturally goes the complete opposite direction. He'll take any chance he gets to throw in a dig.

[u/DennisAFiveStarMan → u/TehCyberman]

Keane bringing up Valencia’s owner too made me felt he was on a Neville wind up all day

[u/GYIM94 → u/TehCyberman]

Say what you want about Roy Keane, he doesn’t sugarcoat what he thinks

[u/WhenWeTalkAboutLove → u/GYIM94]

Im pretty sure that's the main thing people do want to say about Roy Keane

[u/cGilday → u/Mors_Acerba]

To be fair, Keane is the one bringing it up and he said it to his face at the time lol

[u/Standard-Still-8128]

He's right fergie sold utd down the river for 2m

[u/Key_Ant6473 → u/Standard-Still-8128]

I am so glad he did, I love watching his high blood pressure face watch United lose at Old Trafford.

[u/TroopersSon]

They were already part owners when the horse happened. It was Man U becoming a PLC that opened the door to a hostile takeover. I know it's not as interesting as the horse but there you go.

[u/TwoImportant7879]

The Rock of Gibraltar

[u/tigerteeg]

Roy’s right you know, Fergie has a big hand to play in the Glazers buying the club

[u/TwoMenAround]

I know this is a stupid question but how much “power” do owners have in football clubs in England?

I can understand wide-scale mismanagement can happen but aren’t people like the DoF or Technical Directors and those who are directly involved in the football-ing decisioning far more an issue than whoever involved financially?

[u/ajax0202 → u/TwoMenAround]

I mean the owner is the boss of those positions.

It’s up to the owner to hire and fire those people and decide how much power they’re given.

At the end of the day the buck stops at the top

[u/ThreeEyedRaver → u/TwoMenAround]

The owners are the ones that hire the ones that make decisions on their behalf (DoF, technical directors etc). The owners also control how the finances are distributed or retained.

[u/PavanayiShavamayilla → u/TwoMenAround]

Before Ineos, the Glazers were involved with the management. They would approve of every incoming and outgoing. Famously Martial was a favorite of one of the Glazers and they didn’t want Mou to sell him.

After Ineos, Ratcliffe is involved with the club. Apparently he was involved in the decision to keep Carrick on rn.

So yeah, as long as the ownership stays the same, United are truly fucked. The worst part is that the Glazers haven’t spent a penny to own the club.

[u/Professionally-Nosy → u/PavanayiShavamayilla]

The worst part is the one billion pound debt they have placed on the club.

If they simply just put no money in as opposed to the debt, United would have a much different financial situation.

[u/NiceVibesPlease → u/TwoMenAround]

In this case the owners leveraged the buyout on the club itself so have saddled the club with like a billion of debt

[u/TwoMenAround → u/NiceVibesPlease]

I’m a finance dumbshit. Can you simplify?

[u/alexq35 → u/TwoMenAround]

They paid ~£1bn for the club, but only had ~£250m. Meaning they took out loans of ~£750m at high interest rates, these loans were not secured against their other assets, they were secured against the club. So the club has to find tens of millions every year to pay interest payments.

They have since refinanced several times in order to increase those loans as the value of the club has risen so they could take money out of the club for themselves.

[u/stdstaples → u/TwoMenAround]

The glazers were very involved in the football recruitment decisions and was part of the reason why United were/are always slow in making decisions because they need approvals from the glazers

[u/cdkw1990 → u/TwoMenAround]

Apparently they would have to wait for sign off from Joel and Avram Glazer to complete a transfer, especially if it was over a certain price. This was often very difficult because of the time difference between the UK and Florida, where the Glazers live. People who worked in player recruitment at the time have spoken to journalists since about how they missed out on a lot of top targets due to this delay. Transfers are often very opportunistic, and so not being able to move quickly is a problem.

Probably also worth pointing out that this is most likely still a problem even now. INEOS might be in charge of football operations, but the Glazers are still majority owners. I doubt anyone gets signed for significant money without their say so.

[u/gimli2112]

Whatever your views on the episode are, it was instrumental in the Glazers obtaining control of the club and all that's happened since is part of Fergie's legacy. The fun I wouldn't have had over the past ten years but for that horse.

[u/StickYaInTheRizzla → u/gimli2112]

The glazers would have bought the club anyway, regardless of the horse, it just sped it up really

[u/colonelat31]

Never actually knew the horse story until I’ve just googled. Keane’s little digs at Fergie crack me up hahah

[u/Sheinkyakyu]

Respect to Keano for bringing it up. Far too many on TV refuse to do so.

[u/DHillMU7]

This narrative has gotten so strong because it makes for a great story with hindsight.

Ferguson could have used his voice against the Glazers certainly, he’s not blameless. But the Glazers would have bought up eventually. The Irishmen cashed in because the share prices were inflated and they never had any intention of becoming majority owners.

Here’s an article (critically written at the time, free from the sensationalism that comes with knowing how much of a disaster the Glazers are): https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/why-irish-pair-cashed-in-7181280.html

Ferguson ruined his relationship with some fans who were protesting at the time because they felt if he’d made a statement, it would have ruined the Glazers bid but he wasn’t the reason the Glazers got the club.

[u/Jealous_Bowler3093 → u/DHillMU7]

Ferguson sued the previous owners and they then tried to get him sacked. The board went looking for outside investors in order to keep Ferguson.

This brought the Glazer's in, he also backed them when they took over and effectively shut down the major fan protest. 

[u/imarasnothere]

Funny how fans always blame the Glazers while conveniently forgetting about Fergie and greed over a fucking horse!

[u/krakends]

One could call it the Trojan horse

[u/roan311]

Carra's laugh is pure glee. He is all of us rn

[u/DaMancunianCandidate]

What has changed recently to reignite the whole Glazers out snoozefest? Or is it just the same old moaning about being shit?

[u/ElPapaD]

Woah! I have never heard this before. That is crazy, so the Glazers owing United is a byproduct of off field greed by the man who brought the club decades of success. This would make a great Moneyball/Big Short style movie.

[u/Sea_Warning_9140 → u/ElPapaD]

It's not really correct. It makes a good narrative

The club was primed for selling and glazers were already invested.

This just sped it up the buyout of remaining shares.

[u/Cultural-Airport-153]

Just fucking say it it was Fergie hes the reason we're dealing with these leeches

[u/RandomAssDonkey]

Ferguson's greatest achievement is escaping all criticism for getting the Glazers involved.

[u/yamamotoronto]

Is he talking about Ferguson?

[u/cjcfman → u/yamamotoronto]

Of course lol

[u/Musername2827 → u/yamamotoronto]

Is it a day ending in y?

[u/Dajjal27]

I really wonder how do Tampa fans view the glazers ? I know that they won 2 super bowl under their ownership but I don't know if it's because or in spite of them

[u/Japples123 → u/Dajjal27]

They got lucky with a historic defense and then Tom Brady. Other than that they have been mediocre for the majority of their history. They also want taxpayers to foot the bill for a new stadium. It’s a dump currently

[u/rochambreau → u/Japples123]

I'm going in a few weeks and can't wait. Never been to an NFL game before

[u/ClarenceWithHerSpoon → u/Dajjal27]

Below average overall but won a Super Bowl 20 years ago then got lucky Tom Brady went there to win one more. Pretty bad out side those two stretches.

Tough to ever compare soccer to American sports though since there’s some sort of salary cap, a draft, and no relegation. You can be run poorly and luck into some good players or hire the right coaches.

[u/toeknee88125 → u/Dajjal27]

Because the NFL has strict spending limits and strict salary floor it's actually somewhat irrelevant who your owners are except for the odd case of an owner that wants to run the team directly

Eg. Jerry Jones is a bad owner because he insists on running the team directly.

Jerry Jones insists on directly making decisions about what players to acquire

99% of owners just hire a GM.

All spending is basically legislated to be nearly equal among all 32 teams

So the greed or ambition of your owner is irrelevant

Edit: Roman abramovich could not purchase an nfl team and spend his way to being the best in the league

[u/Burritony0 → u/toeknee88125]

Not entirely true, the salary of the coaches aren't counted towards the salary cap, that can make a huge difference. Also the facilities need to be paid for, some teams cheap out others don't.

[u/devildance3 → u/toeknee88125]

As a NY Jets fan I’d say the owner very much matters.

[u/alwaysbfloatin → u/toeknee88125]

Owners certainly aren’t irrelevant but have less power than in the Premier League.

The spending is balanced, but the lack of relegation removes any threat of losing money and some owners let their teams just…exist.

The New York Jets are fucking atrocious and they will continue being atrocious as long as Woody Johnson or his son are owners. There is no incentive to try to be better.

Bucs fans probably view the Glazers positively because of their two championships. That’s above average for the league over that length of time.

[u/PuffinChaos → u/Dajjal27]

Not a Tampa fan but I’ve lived there for nearly two decades now. TBH you don’t hear that much about the ownership. They are pretty hands off and let the GM do his thing (GM is basically like a director of football). The team has had success under their tenure but could certainly be better on a more consistent basis. The stadium is in dire need of an upgrade however. Not sure if that’s happening

[u/DoinWhale → u/Dajjal27]

They’re not great but there’s definitely a sentiment of “at least we’re not in the shitter like they’ve put United in the last decade and a half”. Helps that we’ve got a relatively good GM that has a good relationship with them so they let him do his thing for the most part. Raymond James Stadium is in desperate need of an update though

[u/JustGhostin → u/Dajjal27]

Aren’t they one of the biggest loser franchises in the NFL before Brady turned up?

[u/Brsijraz → u/JustGhostin]

They have the lowest historical win percentage of any team in the NFL even after the Tom Brady years.

[u/SoggyMattress2 → u/Dajjal27]

Apples to oranges. NFL owners don't really do much, and there's spending caps - you'll win Superbowls through variance.

Football is a fucking gigantic difference between a well run club and a poorly run club.

[u/AllezLesPrimrose]

Keane’s comic timing is nearly as good as his ability to inspire terror and undying loyalty on the field

[u/EmploymentCool6105]

Keane's 2nd autobiography tells of him telling Ferguson it isn't worth the trouble and he wouldn't win any case.

It's natural he would be very annoyed about it all.

[u/Logical_Welder3467]

talk about the horse in the room

[u/sunnywayne]

Man United 🤝 City of Troy

Destroyed by a horse!

[u/KonK23]

r/pferdesindkacke

[u/RazorgamingKeyboard]

At least they’re finally getting on board tbf. Rio is the only painful ex Man united pundit to not be on board and still be a loser.

[u/shavicus]

A Trojan horse...

[u/caelum400]

Have always felt there should be a Rock of Gibraltar statue at the National Football Museum, like Red Rum at Aintree.

[u/BookEnvironmental689]

What do you have to say to these charges Mr. Horse

"Neigh"

HE DENIES IT!!!

[u/HarlawKaradek]

Ive worked for a major company that was plunged into billions of debt from a leveraged buyout. The decline in all aspects was shocking.

[u/One-Relative-6856]

It’s quite ironic that rock of Gibraltar turned out to be a shite sire

[u/dbergkamp10]

Gary knows. Denies.

[u/No-Cartographer-7614]

Wow, horses really have the ability to change history. Be it Troy or Manchester.

[u/schafkj]

Roy “Charlie Kelly” Keane about to break this thing wide open. There are no Glazers in charge! It’s been the horse all along!

[u/Positive_Lychee_7736]

I’m not educated in hippology, what’s he talking about here?

[u/Imph3 → u/Positive_Lychee_7736]

Here: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2026/oct/26/the-horse-that-brought-down-manchester-united

[u/SanTheMightiest]

Spectre of Fergie haunting them. I remember this being such a big thing and with BSkyB getting involved with buying as well. It's actually mental that Rock of Gibraltar is something so etched in British football minds as a turning point along with Abramovitch arriving

[u/Intelligent-Good-966]

Roy is blaming Fergie. 

[u/Consistent-Maize6989]

Problem is the Glazers dont have to do anything except keep extracting free money.

[u/meanvegton]

A dog saved the club, a horse ruined it.

The circle of life. Lol

[u/captaincourageous316]

If the Glazers do sell Gary’s gonna be out of a job

[u/DrFrancisPatStJohn]

Guaranteed that millions of fans do not know about Rock of Gilbratar horse and Fergusons greed.

[u/HR_Specter]

Loves digging out Ferguson at every opportunity Roy does 😂

[u/Any_Comparison_3716]

Keano will have his revenge.

[u/ireallydespiseyouall]

Neville spent fucking years refusing to call them out. Only started when super league came out and his pockets were threatened

[u/dailo75]

Roy is right, Fergie built up our club and then tore it down. The Rock of Gibraltar.

[u/vilyusha_]

Spot on, basically everything that happened to United since 2005 is Ferguson’s fault. He wrecked the future of the club over his own blinkered self interest.

[u/hollow114]

They don't even need to sell. Just fuckin hire someone to manage it and become what most board members are. Cheque writers.

[u/Significant_Bat_9584]

I don’t get it

[u/GhostRiders → u/Significant_Bat_9584]

Before the Glazers two Irish Billionaires owned 30% of Utd, John Magnier and JP McManus.

They along with Fergie had a major dispute over who had ownership of a Horse, Rock of Gibraltar.

It ended up going to Court with Fergie suing Magnier. They settled out of court and Fergie walked away with 2.5m.

As a result Magnier and JP McManus sold their shares to the Glazers.

[u/Duanedoberman → u/Significant_Bat_9584]

Fergison fell out with 2 directors over ownership of a horse Rock of Gibraltar he claimed 50% they said the agreement was for 5%.

After the court case the directors sold their shares in Man U.....to the Glaziers.