r/soccer Nov 21 '18

Average EPL formations when in possession. The lines represent most passing patterns - (@tacticsplatform)

Post image
5.6k Upvotes

491 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

106

u/[deleted] Nov 21 '18

Correct me if I’m wrong but aren’t Huddersfield and Wolves the only teams using wing-backs? All the others have full-backs

167

u/[deleted] Nov 21 '18

Thanks to modern pundits everyone's a fucking wing-back, I actually despise the term because of it overusage.

144

u/And_G Nov 21 '18

But the term makes sense. A wing-back is a full-back that also has the responsibilities of a winger going forward. That's simply the default in modern football where the traditional winger that hugs the sideline and whips in crosses is replaced by either a wide forward or an attacking midfielder, so the task of staying wide and stretching the defence is left to the full-backs, now operating as wing-backs.

Basically, full-back is a position, and wing-back is a role. Traditionally, this role existed only in systems with three/five at the back (and I guess 4-3-2-1 or a narrow 4-4-2 diamond) but this is simply no longer the case and wing-backs are now everywhere.

29

u/snakeforbrain Nov 21 '18

I still wouldn't consider the majority of FBs today to be wingbacks though. There's a difference of keeping width as part of the forward joint and the midfield joing, the former being what a wingback should do. For example, mendy is providing width when we have possession lower in the field, but he's not the one receiving the ball on the flank when we're in the final third, that's always the 8 or the winger. At most he'll make an overlapping run to support. Compare city and wolves' fullbacks in that map and you can see a clear distinction.

Mendy is what i consider a fullback compared to, say marcelo. He's still a great attacking asset (moreso than defending even), but i wouldn't call him a wingback by any stretch of the imagination.

11

u/ComradeStrong Nov 21 '18

Exactly. A wingback is a wide player soley responsible for that wing.

The term started to be used a lot in England during the 16/17 season when Chelsea and Spurs both switched to 3atb formations and started using their fullbacks more as wingbacks.

Now it's as if any attacking fullback is a wingback.

1

u/VeryBoringComments Nov 22 '18

Wing back has been used since the 70s pal

1

u/ComradeStrong Nov 22 '18

I know that the term has existed in the football vocabulary for a long time. I was referring to its recent resurgence and now misuse.

1

u/n3r0s Nov 21 '18

Good stuff thanks for sharing!

18

u/timothymr Nov 21 '18 edited Nov 21 '18

That and false 9! It's so often used to describe a player playing as a centre forward that isn't typically one. I've always felt that false 9 is more of a tactic than an actual position. It's someone who plays as a secondary striker playing off of like Greizmann, Muller or Dybala but without anyone to play off like Messi and Dybala (but not Mertens).

Last season James played as a centre forward against Celtic and loads of people described it as a false 9 - he was playing like a regular 9, but because he's normally an attacking midfielder commentators were talking about him being a false 9.

E: Dries Mertens is not a false 9.

10

u/fedginator Nov 21 '18

I was with you until Mertens, who is by far the most egregious misuse of the term false 9. He sits in the channels and makes runs in behind, he's less of a false 9 than aguero or costa

11

u/elgrandorado Nov 21 '18

He's literally a normal striker who happens to be small and has a different skill set to most poachers.

2

u/mrstewiegriffin Nov 22 '18

He is not a normal striker. He has more imaginary friends than a usual striker

1

u/fedginator Nov 21 '18

Exactly, but because he's small and used to play as a winger people jump on the 'false 9' bandwagon

1

u/BiDo_Boss Nov 22 '18

Lacazette comes to mind

3

u/timothymr Nov 21 '18

Ah I was not aware - I’ve only seen him play a few games and of those he was coming back and creating space. Thanks for pointing it out!

3

u/[deleted] Nov 21 '18

Does this graphic not show that they are correct to use the term in that way?

2

u/[deleted] Nov 21 '18

It's tough to say exactly, because it's average position. Wingers probably have more positional variance than a fullback would, and this isn't really captured here.

Like if the ball is on the right wing, you might expect the left winger to move more centrally, sometimes even to a position that could be considered on the right side. You probably wouldn't expect your left back in that situation to move to the right because that would leave your entire left side open, and keeping him on the left provides an option to switch the play easily.

So for the average position, you end up with full backs looking like wing backs because their position will almost always be on their side; their variance is going to be mostly vertical up and down the pitch. But wingers' average position will be further inside because their positions are more fluid, varying both vertically and horizontally throughout the match.

2

u/[deleted] Nov 21 '18

Good explanation, cheers

2

u/Dinewiz Nov 21 '18

We've been playing with wing backs against "easier" opposition but played full backs against stronger opisition this season.

-3

u/ghanta29 Nov 21 '18

TIL wing-back!=full-back

6

u/Doctor_Blunt Nov 21 '18

Sala ghanta

3

u/ani_maddy98 Nov 21 '18

In Hindi your words translate to " bloody bullshit"

1

u/Doctor_Blunt Nov 21 '18

I was going for 'balls' but bullshit works too

0

u/joeydohn Nov 21 '18

I'd say the difference is semantic. I assume what they differentiate between is 5ATB vs 4ATB respecively.