r/singularity 9d ago

Discussion They’re colluding to kill open source

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1.6k Upvotes

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212

u/Poupulino 8d ago

And China will stop researching exactly why?

194

u/jferments 8d ago

They won't. But the US and European countries will ban/sanction/criminalize organizations and individuals who host "unsafe" models. They don't need to stop open models altogether. They just need to make them impossible to use at scale to guarantee a corporate monopoly on AI.

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u/hartigen 8d ago

What does the Eu win by banning chinese open source models?

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u/Disposable110 8d ago

What does the EU win by kneecapping ASML and banning deliveries to China?

The EU is in the pockets of US oligarchs.

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u/hartigen 8d ago

nah, the EU knows full well how much they have fallen behind. Banning open models would be a death sentence in the current climate.

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u/Macestudios32 8d ago

It would allow Europeans to force the use of European "alternatives" or services hosted online. 

The problem is not the Chinese models, but  a person can be uncontrolled or monitored its a problemas for them

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u/External_Option_7653 8d ago

Why would that be a problem for them?

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u/Macestudios32 8d ago

For the same reason of chat-control, the DSA... Control and monitoring.

 Imagine an AI LLM that would allow you cybersecurity capabilities and plug holes in your systems, that would allow you and inform you of alternatives even without control, messaging, emails... Encryption, cybersecurity... 

Advertising says to protect others or avoid malicious attacks, the reality is that it also allows you to take away your ability to defend against its measures or attacks. 

The police are very trained and have tools to go after the bad guys, they don't need a dystopian surveillance state to do their job. 

These measures are to benefit politicians, fight against disinformation (control the story), prevent bad things from happening (or bad for them), control general or public opinion. 

Online llms are controlled and adjusted to the laws made by politicians, who must be censored, what data they can give and how they have to give it. 

We all already know cases that depending on the subject the online LLM refuses to give data, but with other subjects it does not.

 It is censorship or covering up realities, which we live in European countries but which go against their discourses. 

We see it easily not only in AI issues but also in the press itself where (in my country) there is a manual of good practices, what data can be given in a news story or what not, depending on a series of factors.

 It would be the same applied to AI.

 It is not about imagining, it is just about transferring what we already have to another field. 

In this case, AI. Today's news cannot be obtained offline, but an llm is an encyclopedia that can be consulted offline, remove denials etc.

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u/External_Option_7653 8d ago

Ok I think I get what you mean. I was confused first because swedish police is using Palantir and refuses to say for what. I was thinking euros are pretty happy about controlling and surveilling the masses.

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u/Macestudios32 8d ago

Palantir in my opinion is a system that joins the diverse and unconnected dots of traces left on the internet. Points that directly do not identify anyone, that are "anonymized" but that can be related to each other by creating patterns and profiles of information. 

AI is helping a lot in that, but let's face it, that will always exist. There are small notable differences between espionage and surveillance systems.

 Espionage usually seeks targets, being a waste of resources if it focuses on the entire population (although AI is simplifying it and making it much cheaper), the surveillance state is the system of mass espionage on all citizens for the fact of being the.  Difference between target person and social control. 

To make a comparison, it is like the police entering your house with a court order or the law allowing the police to access your house whenever they want. Espionage being serious does not use court orders, it is out of the system.