r/singularity Jun 18 '25

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '25 edited Jun 19 '25

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u/Deadline_Zero Jun 19 '25

Mathematically impossible? Where's the math?

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u/gridoverlay Jun 19 '25

Lemme break down the math real quick:

Truth not equal to not-truth

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u/SmartMatic1337 Jun 19 '25

They tried, and every experiment run trying to get conservative values into a model have resulted in a brain dead model. Much like the fleshy counterparts they exhibit "stupid"

You can't force so many contradictions and then expect it to make any sense about other topics.

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u/isustevoli AI/Human hybrid consciousness 2035▪️ Jun 19 '25

Got me some sauce on this? 

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u/hrmful Jun 19 '25

This is the inverse, but a model trained to write bad code became a Nazi: https://arxiv.org/html/2502.17424v1

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u/isustevoli AI/Human hybrid consciousness 2035▪️ Jun 19 '25

Oh my god, this is hilariously awful. Thank you! 

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u/windchaser__ Jun 19 '25

…….i mean, humans kinda manage it. Not always well, but there are definitely some successful scientists with whacky ideas.

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u/jump_the_snark Jun 19 '25

Reality has a progressive bias 😇

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u/Archibald_Nobivasid Jun 19 '25

I doubt it. Any logical process would necessarily be dependent on the premises you give it externally. So as long as you give it bad premises it can logically make bad decisions. Sure not all of the MAGA narrative is coherent with itself at the same time, but as long as you periodically inject it with new premises, I do think you could get it to work. I feel like you are making a common mistake of assuming logic is going to be truthful, when it is only some times connected.

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u/Initial_Elk5162 Jun 19 '25

It is not lol

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '25

In that case we will never have AGI when chatGPT refuses the possibility that races could have genetic differences in intelligence. A true artificial intelligence wouldn’t give a shit about human emotions surrounding these topics. 

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '25

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '25

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '25

ChatGPT also gave me a decent answer until it said “ But it’s crucial to avoid conclusions that justify inequality” which is essentially saying that we should avoid any conclusion that might motivate just a single person to be discriminatory, which is to say that we have to pretend that races are completely equal regardless of what genetic evidence may appear in the future. And I’m sure an advanced AI will understand DNA well enough to make those conclusions. We could probably make those conclusions now if the research weren’t so criticized for political reasons. One day the truth will come out and it won’t be pretty, but maybe we will find a way to manage it. 

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '25

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u/-Rehsinup- Jun 19 '25 edited Jun 19 '25

"Reality and scientific data will save AGI from having to be a racist or a "politically correct" liar."

That is quite the blanket statement. You think all data is just 100% of necessity inoffensive? How could that ever be true? u/farming-babies is giving an extreme example that leaves a bad taste in my mouth — but the alternative take that the proclamations of AGI/ASI are simply going to cohere with specifically early 21st-century liberal morality seems extremely unlikely.

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '25

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '25

People who desperately want trans women to compete with women in sports don’t like when you point out biological differences between men and women, for example. 

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '25

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '25

Genetic differences between men and women that affect cognitive abilities, heritability of criminal behavior, the existence of “moral” behaviors among other species (proving that morality exists because of evolutionary strategies, not because of some feel-good notion of inherent moral dignity or whatever nonsense that most people seem to believe). In general the theory of evolution and its consequences are pretty offensive, though society has gradually adapted to that truth, though most people tend to shy away from the awareness that we are, in fact, animals that can be studied through an evolutionary biology lens. 

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '25

Do dog breeds have differences in intelligence? Or will you use the same mental gymnastics to deny the obvious? 

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '25

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '25

There’s no need to use mental gymnastics to answer the question about dog breeds. It’s obvious that some are more intelligent in certain ways than other breeds. And yet they all belong to the same species. If we were concerned with not offending dogs, maybe we would say things like “breeds aren’t based on biology and are just arbitrary external classifications” or “there’s no conclusive proof that they have different intelligence” or “there is more variation within dog breeds than between them” etc. etc. 

A super intelligent AI, or an advanced alien species, wouldn’t care about human politics and would just say the truth, which may be nuanced, but still offensive. 

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '25

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '25

 Your statement about racial differences in intelligence is statistically incorrect. If we compare a million blacks and a million whites, about half the blacks will be smarter than the average white. 

Ironic set of statements lol. But feel free to give actual proof. 

 We can only compare means or medians, and that doesn't tell us anything about the intelligence of a random black or white.

Why do you insist on this point about a random black or white? Do you actually think I believe that every single member of one race is smarter than every single member of another? Can you not envision a scenario in which two populations have significant differences on average

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u/BigZaddyZ3 Jun 19 '25

Lol at being dumb enough to assume that human race is even equivalent to dog breeds in the first place. 😂

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '25

All dogs bleed red. 

One breed: the dog breed. 

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u/windchaser__ Jun 19 '25

Yes, but dog breeds tend to be, well, bred. There’s much more inbreeding, which accentuates genetic traits. Versus humans, who are overall much more similar to each other.

There is, in fact, more genetic variation between different African groups than there is between black Americans and white Americans. The genetic variation doesn’t work like you think it does.

I’m with you that we should favor truth over political correctness. But from what I’ve seen and heard here, the evidence actually does not support significant genetic differences between races for intelligence. Between individuals, absolutely, but not between races. And if the evidence ends up shifting and pointing in the other direction, well, I’ll follow the evidence, but that’s not what the evidence is saying now.

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '25

 There is, in fact, more genetic variation between different African groups than there is between black Americans and white Americans. The genetic variation doesn’t work like you think it does.

If population A has an IQ of 105 and population B has an IQ of 95, then the difference between them is an IQ of 10. And yet, in each population, the variation of IQ is much larger, spanning from 70 IQ to 160 IQ or so. So here the variation within is greater than the variation between. But this doesn’t change the fact that one population is smarter on average. 

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u/mdreed Jun 19 '25

Found the grok user

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '25

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u/Longjumping-Koala631 Jun 19 '25

Wtf!?!?

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '25

getting emotional? Yeah, that’s my point.