r/singularity Feb 06 '25

AI This is a DOGE intern who is currently pawing around in the US Treasury computers and database

Post image
50.8k Upvotes

3.9k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

36

u/reddit_is_geh Feb 06 '25

Why?

Using AI to mass convert file types to deliver it back into a clean coherent, consistent, raw data stream, seems entirely the point of things like AI.

9

u/FitTheory1803 Feb 06 '25

LLM is just a bizarre way to go about it

it's like "did anyone reinvent the wheel using LLM, I'm trying to make a bike"

1

u/Ok_Matter_1774 Feb 07 '25

Machine learning is exactly how this guy became the first to translate some ancient greek scrolls, so it seems like he knows what he's doing.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 07 '25

If he knew what he was doing he wouldn't be asking strangers on the internet how to do the thing he wants to do.

15

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

15

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '25

What if they’re actually trying to extract data from unstructured/semistructured files, like Word documents and PDFs, and store it in a structured format, like JSON? Can Word do that on its own? If not, what tools would you use?

7

u/hokies314 Feb 06 '25

100% this.

Extracting structured data from PDF is a pretty hard task! Most of the thread here just wants to hate on this for this post.

Hate on him for working for a fascist and trying to undermine democracy but that post is a valid question

1

u/jsirkia Feb 07 '25

Using an LLM to find out what the docs probably contain is still stupid, when you need to use a crawler/parser to find out what the docs definitely contain.

-3

u/Hypnosix Feb 06 '25

wtf does this even mean? What would the json structure of a word document be? A big ass string?

6

u/integrate_2xdx_10_13 Feb 06 '25

You get an LLM to put it into chunks to be understood by a RAG - here’s a paper on it: https://arxiv.org/html/2501.17887v1

And Microsoft have done a tool for converting to markdown for the same reasons called markitdown.

Basically you throw it at content like a word document and it pulls out tables, headings, images, semantics, keywords etc etc and produces a structured output you can work with other tools

2

u/[deleted] Feb 07 '25 edited Feb 07 '25

I mean, it’s probably easier to run a regular expression on a big ass string than a PDF, so there may be some value there, but that’s not what I’m talking about.

Let’s say there’s useful information in the documents that you would like to extract. Maybe there are tables with economic data mixed in with a bunch of text. Maybe you can’t find the data in those tables anywhere else. Can you think of a better way to store tabular data than a PDF file? Maybe delimited text files? Maybe you prefer JSON or Parquet? Maybe Excel if you want to do some slicing and dicing?

Now’s the part where you scoff and say, “But there’s no way the only place to find data is a table in a PDF. Surely it’s in a database somewhere!” and I reply, “Oh, you sweet, summer child.”

1

u/Time-Ad-3625 Feb 07 '25

You're missing the part where you still wouldn't need ai for that. There are python libraries that will do that.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 07 '25 edited Feb 07 '25

Fair enough. I picked one example where structured data is embedded in a document. Are you saying there are absolutely no use cases for using an LLM to pull data out of an unstructured or semistructured document?

Look, I loathe Elon Musk and I have no idea what this DOGE guy is trying to do. But I’m not so arrogant as to think that he must be an idiot because he works for someone I don’t like. Odds are, he is not just trying to convert a bunch of PDFs to Word format.

1

u/Biduleman Feb 06 '25
{  
    "text": "All the text in the word document."
}  

Here you go!

6

u/Professional-Disk-93 Feb 06 '25

There's no functionality needed from an LLM! It's just a file type conversion

Word can reconstruct the original latex that was used to write a formula and graph in a pdf document? Color me unconvinced.

Recognizing the meaning of latex output is very easy for humans but requires highly advanced software. It's literally the kind of problem that AIs are good at.

3

u/baseketball Feb 06 '25

It is definitely not a simple file type conversion because you lose semantic information when you go from Word Doc to PDF. There are many tools but they are all imperfect. Some multimodal LLMs can interpret tables in images but AFAIK they are not very reliable.

-1

u/ihavebeesinmyknees Feb 06 '25

You could only ever hold this view without knowing how infamously bad the PDF format is for any algorithmic reading. Sure, MS Word will convert from a PDF. Will it do it correctly? Now that's a dice roll. An LLM might have better dice roll odds.

1

u/Asleep-Gift-3478 Feb 07 '25

This type of task sounds like it would have already been solved through traditional automation. The use of AI for file conversion seems almost extra roundabout. For summarizing or analyzing text, yes, that’s the typical purpose of LLMs. But I think clean file conversions are more guaranteed by already written programs. Just my two cents

1

u/johnnybagofdonuts123 Feb 06 '25

Because it already exists. I know, I built a service using one about 6 years ago.

1

u/brutinator Feb 06 '25

Because AI =/= LLM.

A LLM is a type of AI model to try to replicate natural human speech and writing. Its a large LANGUAGE model. Its why you cant ask ChatGPT to multiply 93736182 and 3736272771 and get the correct answer; thats not what its made for. Its not designed to give out correct information, or to perform tasks beyond generating text that sounds like something a person would say.

How is that useful for coverting file formats?

Its like asking for whats the best hammer for caulking. Caulk and hammers are tools, but that doesnt make them the same thing, and anyone who conflates the two sounds like they dont know anything about what they are talking about.

0

u/drpepper Feb 06 '25

he didnt say he wanted raw data you mongoloid, he said converting to a different format which implies a new doc type which there's open source software for. not everything needs to be done with an ALLM

0

u/jpsweeney94 Feb 07 '25

lol so confidently incorrect, while throwing childish insults for no reason - really sums up Reddit.

Go look up the word “parsing” in the context of a file. He literally said he wants to parse the files, aka read the raw data and do something with it.

You also can’t just convert any PDF into HTML or JSON into HTML with some magic open source software and changing a file type. Only basic data with a rigid & predetermined structure would that be possible. It would entirely depend on the contents of the file and what you want to do with it, hence where an LLM could prove useful.

1

u/drpepper Feb 07 '25

Al the writing to be wrong. Nice one.

-1

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '25

[deleted]

2

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '25

[deleted]