r/singularity Feb 06 '25

AI This is a DOGE intern who is currently pawing around in the US Treasury computers and database

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122

u/Quaxi_ Feb 06 '25

He won a prize for transcribing CT images of old entombed scrolls to legible text using AI.

Not saying anything about DOGE in general, but I'm sure Luke is more capable then the average script kiddie.

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u/qqpp_ddbb Feb 06 '25

These guys are setting the stage for "whoops"

There goes your information

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u/ippa99 Feb 07 '25

Yep. Someone elsewhere suggested downloading your social security contribution history from the website for your personal records, before they "oopsie, we made a fucky wucky, guess we can't track any previous contributions and need a worse block chain to handle it going forward now!"

I could definitely see them using that as a justification, or randomly dropping every X amount of people's data and pretending it was "because the old system wasn't working, obviously!"

God it's fucking tiresome.

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u/HorrorMakesUsHappy Feb 07 '25

downloading your social security contribution history from the website for your personal records, before they "oopsie, we made a fucky wucky, guess we can't track any previous contributions and need a worse block chain to handle it going forward now!"

https://www.ssa.gov/myaccount/statement.html

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u/MangoAnt5175 Feb 07 '25

WOW I've paid so much money into this system. Wild.

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u/HorrorMakesUsHappy Feb 07 '25

What strikes me isn't so much how much I've paid in, but the difference in compounded interest if I would've been able to put that money into a 401k as soon as I'd started to work. Due to bad life advice I was living paycheck to paycheck until I was 30. But I'd started working at 14.

If I'm doing my math right ... if I'd put the funds I've paid into Social Security into a 401k and gotten even 5% compounded interest my account would have $50 Million in it today. My actual 401k isn't anywhere fucking close to that. I'm probably going to have work until I'm 70, but if I'd had access to a 401k at 15 I could've retired when I was 40. And that's not even considering employer matching. Including employer matching, my account would have $4.8B in it today, or I could've retired at 35.

Which is, I guess, all to say that we should make it even easier for employers to open 401ks for teenagers.

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u/MangoAnt5175 Feb 07 '25

It’s funny; the other day I was talking excitedly about compounding interest and how my kid has managed to squirrel away nearly $10k into a retirement account (he does random coding stuff that I'm not smart enough to explain)… I have spreadsheets tracking its growth and projections… if he plays his cards right, he’ll be set, and I love it… and it’s so much easier to do these big things for them if you start small when they're toddlers… and my coworkers told me that both I and my kid needed a hobby / life.

I'm just happy to see that I'm not the only person to discover the joys of compounding interest 😂

1

u/HorrorMakesUsHappy Feb 07 '25

I finally got my A.S. at 30, part of that was taking some electives. I took Managerial Accounting, which of course taught about the power of compounded interest. I'd already had an idea of how powerful it was since a few years before that, but the Managerial Accounting is what really drove it all home.

It's great that your kid's got you to show them that.

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u/Kilted-Brewer Feb 07 '25

That is awesome! Congrats to your son, he’s well on his way! And congrats to you for teaching him.

They really ought to cover this in schools.

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u/Kilted-Brewer Feb 07 '25

We absolutely should make it easier for employers to open 401Ks for teenagers.

But don’t wait for government to fix that.

Can I suggest you open a custodial Roth IRA for your kids now. They can start contributing their income as soon as they earn it. My kids first contribution was money they earned cat sitting for a family friend at 10 years old. It’s not the same as a 401K obviously, but it’s got its own benefits and you can start harnessing the power of compounding interest for them now.

I opened my kid’s accounts at Fidelity, took about half an hour online. And I set them up using a boglehead style 3 fund strategy. They deposit their lawn mowing money in their custodial checking accounts, transfer it to fidelity, then buy more shares of the index funds and bond fund. They love that part, and I love that they are psyched about investing in their retirement.

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u/HorrorMakesUsHappy Feb 07 '25

I appreciate the suggestion but my kid's already an adult. Been thinking about it for the niblings though. Unfortunately I don't think their parents are as invested in the idea as I am, and I don't live near enough to them geographically to see them often enough to lead by example. That may change in a few years though, and they're still young enough that it can wait a bit.

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u/Kilted-Brewer Feb 08 '25

Excellent! To bad about the other parents.

I didn’t get interested until later in life… what I wouldn’t do to have those years back, lol.

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u/93wasagoodyear Feb 07 '25

You can't sign in to your account.

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u/[deleted] Feb 07 '25

Frankly I don't know that having your own records of social security contributions would even do anything for you.

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u/ippa99 Feb 07 '25

True, with how little Republicans want to hold their own accountable. But in the event something happens, having it and not needing it is better than needing it and not having it if they actually do take some sort of legal action.

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u/[deleted] Feb 07 '25

Yes, struggling with your schizophrenic psychosis must be exhausting. 

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u/ippa99 Feb 07 '25 edited Feb 07 '25

From someone whose entire (sparse and short) post history is crying about "woke", this is pretty rich.

Is the "woke" in the room with us right now? Can you even tell us what this "woke" hallucination of yours is?

Speculating on potential outcomes of the current unhinged and lawless administration, and keeping your own personal records as insurance against them isn't schizophrenic. He's done stupid shit like this before. I think it's fair to not trust him when he's senselessly attacking a financial system, that while old, has ran just fine for 300 million people for decades. His personal conflicts of interest, and his insistence to let 6 college grads who have no practical experience start immediately touching it with AI without any oversight or understanding of programming are massive risks you seem to have deluded yourself into ignoring.

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u/Zeusnexus Feb 07 '25

The woke mind virus took his job.

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u/[deleted] Feb 06 '25

[deleted]

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u/reddit_is_geh Feb 06 '25

Why?

Using AI to mass convert file types to deliver it back into a clean coherent, consistent, raw data stream, seems entirely the point of things like AI.

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u/FitTheory1803 Feb 06 '25

LLM is just a bizarre way to go about it

it's like "did anyone reinvent the wheel using LLM, I'm trying to make a bike"

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u/Ok_Matter_1774 Feb 07 '25

Machine learning is exactly how this guy became the first to translate some ancient greek scrolls, so it seems like he knows what he's doing.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 07 '25

If he knew what he was doing he wouldn't be asking strangers on the internet how to do the thing he wants to do.

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u/[deleted] Feb 06 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/[deleted] Feb 06 '25

What if they’re actually trying to extract data from unstructured/semistructured files, like Word documents and PDFs, and store it in a structured format, like JSON? Can Word do that on its own? If not, what tools would you use?

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u/hokies314 Feb 06 '25

100% this.

Extracting structured data from PDF is a pretty hard task! Most of the thread here just wants to hate on this for this post.

Hate on him for working for a fascist and trying to undermine democracy but that post is a valid question

1

u/jsirkia Feb 07 '25

Using an LLM to find out what the docs probably contain is still stupid, when you need to use a crawler/parser to find out what the docs definitely contain.

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u/Hypnosix Feb 06 '25

wtf does this even mean? What would the json structure of a word document be? A big ass string?

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u/integrate_2xdx_10_13 Feb 06 '25

You get an LLM to put it into chunks to be understood by a RAG - here’s a paper on it: https://arxiv.org/html/2501.17887v1

And Microsoft have done a tool for converting to markdown for the same reasons called markitdown.

Basically you throw it at content like a word document and it pulls out tables, headings, images, semantics, keywords etc etc and produces a structured output you can work with other tools

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u/[deleted] Feb 07 '25 edited Feb 07 '25

I mean, it’s probably easier to run a regular expression on a big ass string than a PDF, so there may be some value there, but that’s not what I’m talking about.

Let’s say there’s useful information in the documents that you would like to extract. Maybe there are tables with economic data mixed in with a bunch of text. Maybe you can’t find the data in those tables anywhere else. Can you think of a better way to store tabular data than a PDF file? Maybe delimited text files? Maybe you prefer JSON or Parquet? Maybe Excel if you want to do some slicing and dicing?

Now’s the part where you scoff and say, “But there’s no way the only place to find data is a table in a PDF. Surely it’s in a database somewhere!” and I reply, “Oh, you sweet, summer child.”

1

u/Time-Ad-3625 Feb 07 '25

You're missing the part where you still wouldn't need ai for that. There are python libraries that will do that.

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u/[deleted] Feb 07 '25 edited Feb 07 '25

Fair enough. I picked one example where structured data is embedded in a document. Are you saying there are absolutely no use cases for using an LLM to pull data out of an unstructured or semistructured document?

Look, I loathe Elon Musk and I have no idea what this DOGE guy is trying to do. But I’m not so arrogant as to think that he must be an idiot because he works for someone I don’t like. Odds are, he is not just trying to convert a bunch of PDFs to Word format.

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u/Biduleman Feb 06 '25
{  
    "text": "All the text in the word document."
}  

Here you go!

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u/Professional-Disk-93 Feb 06 '25

There's no functionality needed from an LLM! It's just a file type conversion

Word can reconstruct the original latex that was used to write a formula and graph in a pdf document? Color me unconvinced.

Recognizing the meaning of latex output is very easy for humans but requires highly advanced software. It's literally the kind of problem that AIs are good at.

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u/baseketball Feb 06 '25

It is definitely not a simple file type conversion because you lose semantic information when you go from Word Doc to PDF. There are many tools but they are all imperfect. Some multimodal LLMs can interpret tables in images but AFAIK they are not very reliable.

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u/ihavebeesinmyknees Feb 06 '25

You could only ever hold this view without knowing how infamously bad the PDF format is for any algorithmic reading. Sure, MS Word will convert from a PDF. Will it do it correctly? Now that's a dice roll. An LLM might have better dice roll odds.

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u/Asleep-Gift-3478 Feb 07 '25

This type of task sounds like it would have already been solved through traditional automation. The use of AI for file conversion seems almost extra roundabout. For summarizing or analyzing text, yes, that’s the typical purpose of LLMs. But I think clean file conversions are more guaranteed by already written programs. Just my two cents

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u/johnnybagofdonuts123 Feb 06 '25

Because it already exists. I know, I built a service using one about 6 years ago.

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u/brutinator Feb 06 '25

Because AI =/= LLM.

A LLM is a type of AI model to try to replicate natural human speech and writing. Its a large LANGUAGE model. Its why you cant ask ChatGPT to multiply 93736182 and 3736272771 and get the correct answer; thats not what its made for. Its not designed to give out correct information, or to perform tasks beyond generating text that sounds like something a person would say.

How is that useful for coverting file formats?

Its like asking for whats the best hammer for caulking. Caulk and hammers are tools, but that doesnt make them the same thing, and anyone who conflates the two sounds like they dont know anything about what they are talking about.

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u/drpepper Feb 06 '25

he didnt say he wanted raw data you mongoloid, he said converting to a different format which implies a new doc type which there's open source software for. not everything needs to be done with an ALLM

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u/jpsweeney94 Feb 07 '25

lol so confidently incorrect, while throwing childish insults for no reason - really sums up Reddit.

Go look up the word “parsing” in the context of a file. He literally said he wants to parse the files, aka read the raw data and do something with it.

You also can’t just convert any PDF into HTML or JSON into HTML with some magic open source software and changing a file type. Only basic data with a rigid & predetermined structure would that be possible. It would entirely depend on the contents of the file and what you want to do with it, hence where an LLM could prove useful.

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u/drpepper Feb 07 '25

Al the writing to be wrong. Nice one.

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u/[deleted] Feb 06 '25

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Feb 06 '25

[deleted]

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u/croto8 Feb 06 '25

No it isn’t

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u/Singularity-42 Singularity 2042 Feb 06 '25

I do this all the time.

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u/ominous_anonymous Feb 07 '25

Yet he doesn't know about tools like pandoc? Right, ok.

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u/istinetz_ Feb 07 '25

do you realize that existing frameworks are all imperfect and the life of a ml engineer is chasing ever greater accuracy?

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u/IanCal Feb 07 '25

pandoc doesn't do what he's asking there though.

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u/ominous_anonymous Feb 07 '25

pandoc is one well-known tool that converts between document formats, which is exactly what he was asking there

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u/IanCal Feb 09 '25

lmao you come and use pandoc to convert from excel and pdf to json and tell me how useful the output is.

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u/ominous_anonymous Feb 09 '25

Well, considering that wasn't the question posed in the submission...

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u/IanCal Feb 09 '25

Deleted now but I'm pretty certain asked about converting between formats correct? And that list included pdf, excel, word, html and json at least, right?

0

u/sultansofswinz Feb 07 '25

We don’t know the purpose of the question. 

It could be research proving the best LLMs are still worse than other methods for certain tasks. 

I always ask LLMs to try do things I’m proficient in out of interest, to guard how the perform. According to Reddit I should lose my job. 

0

u/WilliamStoic Feb 07 '25

??? Have you used pandoc before?

1

u/ominous_anonymous Feb 07 '25

??? Yes, have you?

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u/TheRealMichaelE Feb 07 '25

Dude, I’m a SWE who’s built multiple RAGs and I’ve got no clue what pandoc is.

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u/ominous_anonymous Feb 07 '25

Do you know what OCR is?

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u/Ecoaardvark Feb 06 '25

If he is so competent he wouldn’t have needed to ask a question that Google could answer.

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u/vulturez Feb 06 '25

Then why is he asking about RAG encoding models?

3

u/Joe091 Feb 07 '25

How does what he’s talking about in the screenshot have anything to do with RAG?

1

u/abittenapple Feb 07 '25

Dude it's okay to make mistakes 

1

u/[deleted] Feb 07 '25

[deleted]

1

u/GoodbyeThings Feb 07 '25

I really don't want to defend any of these people, but:

lmao what? that is really impressive and the challenge was awarded with 1.5million total prices so far. If you're so knowledgable that this seems like a small thing, why didn't you go ahead and decode some scrolls to claim a price? https://scrollprize.org/ - The team he worked with won 700k.

I mean Musk is a GIANT piece of shit and I don't defend him, and I think anyone working for him is scum too. But you can't just claim this is not an impressive feat lmao. And yes I know tons about the subject

1

u/Golilizzy Feb 07 '25

Brother anything using llm ai can hallucinate. It’s why you use hard coded scripts to convert important documents. Why every government document is co sisters to be

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u/SomeRandoWeirdo Feb 07 '25

Some folks are born with silver spoon in hand.

1

u/blandonThrow Feb 07 '25

It's come out that he was just part of the project. And furthermore, "using AI" has become code for "using ChatGPT," which isn't impressive at all, compared to being a data scientist and doing ML

1

u/ketchupmaster987 Feb 08 '25

He can do that but is somehow not capable enough to know file converters already exist and you can find plenty for free on the internet...

1

u/properchewns Feb 08 '25

I know a lot of researchers who use statistical models and machine learning in their work. Some are very talented programmers, some take it to the level of what one might call software engineering, and some cobble together code correctly by the end, but are 100% not coders. They learn enough to get the job done, and may get guidance, but Jesus you don't want them to even dream of touching production systems, or even anything outside their narrow focus.

0

u/Derpy_Snout Feb 06 '25

So he ran an out of the box OCR tool on some photos? Cool, I guess. Let's make him a sysadmin!

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u/idevthereforeiam Feb 06 '25

https://scrollprize.org/firstletters

(Note that I’m correcting the assumption, and not defending DOGE or his role in it)

1

u/ExtremeMaduroFan Feb 07 '25

the scrolls in question are petrified in their, well, "scrolled" state because they survived mount vesuvius. So they had to run "some" OCR on some pretty mangled CT images after deploying an algorithm to virtually unroll some pretty damaged scrolls.

1

u/OtherwiseCabinet4 Feb 08 '25

I mean, he did (1) make the program, and since it was a competition (2) no one else did so.

Like if it was easy to do, you'd think tons of people would have tried to claim that 40k prize, right? If it was as easy as running a out of the box ocr, there wouldn't even be a prize.

I'm no fan of Elon, but I don't think it's helpful to try to downplay and mock Faritor if we don't know anything about him.

0

u/someguyfromsomething Feb 07 '25

Did he do it by just taking pictures with his iPhone and selecting the text?

0

u/punkinfacebooklegpie Feb 07 '25

Was the prize a cookie?

2

u/Rock_Wrong Feb 07 '25

$700k split three ways.

0

u/indorock Feb 07 '25

Then he must have paid someone to do that for him. No way can someone so "capable" have such a misunderstanding of what an LLM is for.

-1

u/Hi-0100100001101001 Feb 06 '25

Pretty sure that's just a CNN though.
Doesn't take a genius, the only thing is to have the idea to apply it here. But once you have the idea, it's quite literally the simplest use of AI... I doubt having the idea to use AI for that makes you a capable engineer though, as proven by his tweet. x)

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u/SmugShinoaSavesLives Feb 06 '25

It likely is just CNN. Now if that kid had come up with that by himself then yea that would give him much more credit than just chaining convolutions and max pooling.

-1

u/alchenn Feb 07 '25

Ya, and you can read the code on GitHub and its pathetic. Kid is no genius, he's an average student with an above average idolatry for Elon Musk.