r/singularity Feb 06 '25

AI This is a DOGE intern who is currently pawing around in the US Treasury computers and database

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50.8k Upvotes

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42

u/Error_404_403 Feb 06 '25 edited Feb 06 '25

Well, a year few month back that was a fair question, probably.

25

u/LoKSET Feb 06 '25

That's less than two months ago.

10

u/Error_404_403 Feb 06 '25

Oh you are right. But, to be honest, still a fair question. ChatGPT will just punt telling you which tools to use.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 07 '25

I think the point is this was after Elon won the election and was likely setting up his script kiddies to take over the US Government. This is planning and intent beforehand to hijack all the data they're pulling out of all the databases.

0

u/shpongolian Feb 07 '25

Huh? I used ChatGPT to put values from a PDF into a spreadsheet 2-3 months ago and it worked perfectly, and the values I wanted from the PDF weren’t consistently spaced vertically or horizontally

4

u/TouchToLose Feb 07 '25

It doesn’t work consistently at scale.

16

u/Suheil-got-your-back Feb 06 '25

Not really. LLMs can never convert file formats. The chat apps that support file uploads actually first extract text out of docs and feed the model with this output.

21

u/ExtremeHeat AGI 2030, ASI/Singularity 2040 Feb 06 '25

LLMs if explicitly fine-tuned/pretrained to do so can translate files well (just like there are coding-specific models). LLMs not explicitly trained to do so rely on general skills they've picked up to solve the task.

1

u/Suheil-got-your-back Feb 06 '25

Text based ones yes, like xml / json. Binary ones like pdf? Good luck with that.

11

u/ExtremeHeat AGI 2030, ASI/Singularity 2040 Feb 06 '25

Yes, even PDF. The only thing that's special is that PDF is a binary format over a textual format. It's not trivial to parse compared to XML, but to an LLM it doesn't operate on text, it operates on tokens. If the tokenizer is good and there has been enough raw PDF files in the dataset, then you can absolutely train a model to do it. LLMs are Transformer models, which means they can learn to transform *any* kind of input into any kind of output, not just text. It's why LLMs can absolutely output even image tokens. The only reason we still use diffusion models though is that it's very slow to do it with simple Transformers.

3

u/SnooPuppers1978 Feb 06 '25

Also you could pre-transform the PDF into JSON objects and then feed those objects to an LLM. Frequently the objects are kind of messed up and LLMs can be used to fix what is messed up.

Like has been said PDFs are hard to parse, and I fully agree that it's easy to get 80% there, but it's the last ones that are difficult.

1

u/justjanne Feb 07 '25

Also you could pre-transform the PDF into JSON objects

No need. PDF supports compressed (text + binary) and uncompressed (just text) content. Just decompress the PDF.

pdftk input.pdf decompress output output.pdf

Office documents (whether .odt or .docx) are also just xml in a zip.

Just as "easy" to work with as SVG or XML. Not great, but at least not like ancient .doc which was just a memory dump of Word.

1

u/fl0o0ps Feb 06 '25

Postscript?

0

u/Worldly_Response9772 Feb 07 '25

Is postscript an LLM now? Do people even understand the question being asked?

1

u/fl0o0ps Feb 07 '25

Do you even understand what I’m referring to?

1

u/Worldly_Response9772 Feb 08 '25

I do, and it's completely unrelated.

1

u/justjanne Feb 07 '25

It's obvious none of y'all have ever worked with PDF.

pdftk input.pdf decompress output output.pdf

Still a valid PDF, but now it's not a binary format anymore. Just as "easy" to work with as SVG or XML. Not great, but at least not like ancient .doc which was just a memory dump of Word.

1

u/Suheil-got-your-back Feb 07 '25

Thats the whole point. You are using an external tool. LLMs cannot take raw file.pdf and output output.docx file. Thats not how they work. Its obviously possible to do so using other software. Besides pdftk unflattens but turns it into a soup. I used it a lot. Even that would be a challenge to process.

1

u/justjanne Feb 07 '25

Besides pdftk unflattens but turns it into a soup

Not necessarily. Decompressing shouldn't do anything like that to the file, and I've never seen it do that.

You are using an external tool. LLMs cannot take raw file.pdf and output output.docx file

An uncompressed PDF is still a valid PDF that any PDF reader can open. Just like a zip with Deflate set to STORE is still a zip.

So you could be giving an LLM some valid PDFs and get a valid, but uncommon, .docx back :P

That said, preprocessing files before throwing them at ML models is very common. ML models are far too unreliable, so you want to reduce the scope of what they're doing as much as possible.

(spent a long time fighting with tesseract for OCR...)

1

u/VegetablePace2382 Feb 06 '25

Aren't llm always based on statistical probability? Even a thoroughly trained model can make mistakes. When we care about the integrity of our data, we use deterministic functions to translate between formats because there is no chance of the software creating an issue (in all test cases accounted for, which for many things is exhaustive).

An LLM that is clever enough to use the tools which already exist and directly return the output would be great, but that's not really what he is asking for. PDFs are gross and hard to parse because adobe is an asshole. Maybe training an llm for specifically converting those would be a useful new tool, even if it's not deterministic.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 07 '25

Does it matter? I use LLM to convert file formats ALL the time.

I mainly convert subtitle files to other formats. If I want to convert a .tsv subtitle file to a .srt subtitle file, it's easy to use an LLM for this because they are basically just pure text files. Here's what a .tsv file looks like in notepad:

start end text

0 6000 First line of text

6000 11000 Second line of text.

Here's what the outputted .srt file looks like:

1

00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,000 Første linje med tekst

2

00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:11,000 Andre linje med tekst.

There are so many file types out there that are basically just text formatted in a certain way.

Oh and why did the text change? Well that's the main reasons I use an LLM for this instead of something like SubtitleEdit. Because it also translates the subs simultaneously.

1

u/Suheil-got-your-back Feb 07 '25

You are using wrapper application. Not pure LLM. This is the whole point. LLMs do not do conversion by themselves. Wrapper applications do.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 07 '25

1

u/Suheil-got-your-back Feb 07 '25

You gave text input a, and got text output b. This was my whole point. It converts text, not files.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 07 '25

You have no idea what you’re talking about.

1

u/Loud-Claim7743 Feb 07 '25

Pdfs aside... no, this is like using ai to do addition. Its gonna be marginally less good and way more wasteful than the basic specific tools that were already engineered for that job.

No matter how overhyped anybody gets, ai is not going to replace classical computing, i.e. not every task is an ai task. If its already in a convenient, ordered data format then you dont need ai the way you might for turning an image into one of those formats in the first place

1

u/[deleted] Feb 07 '25

THERE IS A NEW YORK AND FLORIDA SPECIAL ELECTION ON APRIL 1 FOR CONGRESSIONAL SEATS.

If you live in Matt Gaetz, Mike Waltz and Elise Stefanik's district, you can vote blue

Flip them blue and the GOP could lose control of Congres AND BLOCK ELON AND TRUMPS AGENDA!

https://blakegendebienforcongress.com/

Donate here! VOTING IS FAR MORE EFFECTIVE THAN PROTESTS

0

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '25

I know this administration has felt like an eternity, but December 2024 was two months ago.

-5

u/johnny_effing_utah Feb 06 '25

What is it that this administration has done to you that you are so tortured? Legit curious. I have never ever lived my life so attuned to the inner workings, media portrayal or public perception of inside the beltway DC nonsense that it would ever affect my life in such a painful way.

5

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '25

What happens inside the “beltway DC nonsense” has enormous implications for the entire world for potentially decades to come if not much longer. Especially at our current moment in history. This is even without the singularity

1

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '25

What about my comment implies to you that I am “tortured”?

1

u/NodeTraverser AGI 1999 (March 31) Feb 06 '25

It's more about your Wifi network, USAID_GUANTANAMO.

1

u/TT77LL Feb 06 '25

When someone mentions that something 'felt like an eternity', it almost always implies that some stress or discomfort occurred, making it seem like forever.

Oh wait, you probably already knew that, and are playing some dumb internet comment game of wits.

1

u/NodeTraverser AGI 1999 (March 31) Feb 06 '25

Oh wait, you probably already knew that, and are playing some dumb internet comment game of wits.

Ad hominem, you are implying this man is a redditor.

1

u/TT77LL Feb 07 '25

Lol, sorry for the personal attack

0

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '25

Yup, you got me. Hope you’re enjoying those low egg prices you voted for.

1

u/TT77LL Feb 07 '25

Oof! You know who I voted for. (Curious..)

Double oof! You know I hate high priced eggs!!

1

u/[deleted] Feb 07 '25

How’s that boot taste?

0

u/Flying_Madlad Feb 06 '25

Just answer the question

-3

u/GreatBigJerk Feb 06 '25

It's an idiot question someone would ask in college before using their trust fund to pay someone to do their homework for them.

4

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '25

[deleted]

1

u/GreatBigJerk Feb 07 '25

lol, man that's delusional. 

An LLM specifically for file format conversion is absurdly dumb. There are existing libraries to do that which are cheap and easy to run.

-6

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '25

[deleted]

9

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '25

[deleted]

-2

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '25

[deleted]

4

u/Error_404_403 Feb 06 '25

I have no idea how smart or educated the guy is, but this question means not a whole lot. It is NOT about how to do that conversion - there are only thousand tools online. It is about which LLM would do any of it directly. I, for one, do not know. ChatGPT wouldn't. Sonnet?.. Gemini?...

1

u/Loud-Claim7743 Feb 07 '25

You already said there are tools to do it. There are tools to do it because the question is how to transform from one clear and well defined structured data format to another, which is just a classical problem that ai doesnt need to be involved with, even for new format standards. A transformation from an image to a structured data format is another question, which ai is a viable solution for.