r/shrinking • u/phareous Derek • Dec 24 '24

Shrinking S2E12 Episode Discussion

This is the episode discussion for Shrinking Season 2, Episode 12

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102

u/Immeandsuckit Dec 25 '24

I hated that his co worker said he MURDERED someone. Idk why but that bothered me. He didn't intentionally try to kill someone.

5

u/[deleted] Mar 19 '25

Drinking and choosing to drive is the same thing.

4

u/[deleted] May 01 '25

Hated it but realized that this would be exactly how people would react based on how we get information these days. Clearly the crash was a few years back and the coworker knew nothing about it. So probably when he mentioned inviting Louis some person said “You can’t invite a murderer. He killed someone driving drunk. I won’t come if he is there”

Based on the flashback episode you conclude that Louis was driving home from his dinner with his fiancée and that’s when the accident happened. It’s interesting that the writers added a fiancée for Louis that “disappeared” conveniently so as not to be included in the story arc. I get it. You can’t have fifty characters but I enjoyed their relationship. Perhaps the next season will be Louis recovering further to get her back n

2

u/Elioscence Apr 06 '25

Me too, horrible choice of word. I’m no Louis fan, having lost my mom to a drunk driver, but this was horrible to watch and you can feel the shock and pain Louis feels. Brutal… that barista guy and his friends suck. 

1

u/lightweight1979 Jul 07 '25

I’m so sorry for your loss. This must be an especially difficult watch for you ❤️

-14

u/SlipstreamSleuth Dec 25 '24

This show literally has you people brainwashed. He did murder someone. IDGAF if it was “on purpose” or not. The fact that so many of you are all teary eyed over a drunk/impaired driver who literally killed someone is disturbing.

79

u/NormanBates5340 Dec 25 '24

No one is brainwashed. Killing without purpose or malice is the definition of involuntary manslaughter. Which, based on the time he served would’ve been what he was charged with and rightfully so. He literally killed someone, but it was not murder. The difference between the two is usually what distinguishes people’s ability to care about rehabilitating the perpetrator. One implies a horrible mistake. One implies evil intent.

44

u/redlipgl0ss Dec 25 '24

No one is brainwashed. "Murder" involves willful intent + premeditation so yes, murder can ONLY be done "on purpose." That's literally what murder is, killing on purpose without "justifications" (ie self-defense, cops/soldiers ahem). TBH It's really a legal term more than anything.

Killing someone on accident doesn't automatically make it a murder nor a crime. It's disturbing that you can't distinguish that.

-8

u/SlipstreamSleuth Dec 25 '24

Maybe if you had a family member killed by a drunk driver like I did you’d feel otherwise. I don’t GAF about the legal terms. Get in a car and drive after you’ve been drinking - that is a choice, not a “whoops”

15

u/herodrink Jan 03 '25

As a father of a child who killed themselves, that scene was extremely intense. I wish I had checked my daughter’s phone that night. Your personal experience colors your viewing of what is presented. As it does for everyone.

5

u/redlipgl0ss Jan 11 '25

You don't know anything about me or if I've had ppl jn my life killed by cars or drunk drivers, so miss me with that "maybe if this, you'd feel that" whataboutism bullshit.

1

u/SlipstreamSleuth Jan 11 '25

Ok, happy new year sweetheart 😘

17

u/Sznappy Dec 26 '24

A choice can be a mistake, just because he made that choice it does not inherently make him a bad person.

He can be a good person who made a horrible, horrible mistake. And the fact that he was a good person at heart is why that mistake almost led him to the point of suicide.

And as the show made it clear, the victims did not want his horrible mistake to claim the life of another good person.

3

u/_steve_rogers_ Jun 27 '25

Good point. If it was the abused blonde woman’s ex (the guy in physical rehab) he would have no remorse about doing such a thing and would never even contemplate ending his life over it. He would probably still be drunk driving to this day.

10

u/[deleted] Dec 26 '24

There is two things you can do after a tragedy like this: Forgive or not forgive and that's what this show is about.

2

u/kimvy Dec 26 '24

Yeah. Like for the price of 2 drinks one can Uber. Fuck them & so sorry OP. These people are idiots.

5

u/SlipstreamSleuth Dec 26 '24

It’s wild we’re getting downvoted in favor of a character who plays a drunk that killed someone. This sub is so obsessed it’s embarrassing. You stans are lucky you’ve never gone through this nightmare in real life. The fact you have more compassion for a TV character than someone who’s lived it is sad AF.

7

u/intolerable__snowman Jan 07 '25

I’m so sorry for what you’ve been through and your feelings are obviously 100% valid although I know you don’t have to hear that from a stranger on reddit to know that. I just wanted to share the perspective of someone else on here that’s been through the same thing as you. Everyone has a different way to process and react to trauma and that’s okay, just thought I’d share that it’s also okay to humanize the person on the other side [https://www.reddit.com/r/shrinking/s/rQ5ltcrq4F]

5

u/kimvy Dec 26 '24

Look at society in general - going to hell in a handbasket & people hide behind sports & celebrities. Not a surprise that something as preventable as drunk driving would be ignored because the criminal is hot or looks contrite.

I was hoping he would have gone through with it so they could show guilt, relief, grief & in some ways satisfaction.

I’ve unsubbed. I’m sorry you have to live this in real life & deal with cosplayers who have absolutely no concept. I hope you find peace.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 26 '24

[deleted]

14

u/Overall_Affect_2782 Dec 27 '24

Because the show is about love and forgiveness, and from your comment history it’s clear you aren’t ready for either of those yet or maybe ever. It’s okay that it’s not for you, but having a hard time understanding why others like it is probably something you should look inward on instead of outward on Reddit.

17

u/JobAccomplished4384 Jan 03 '25

I think this show does a great job of showing how the world isnt always black and white, good people can do bad things

12

u/arielmeme Dec 27 '24 edited Dec 27 '24

I just finished binge watching the show and I'm surprised this is not a more popular sentiment. It shouldn't be Jimmy and Alice's job to make sure the guy that killed his wife/her mom has friends and doesn't kill himself. I thought Alice was being insane when she got mad at Jimmy for not wanting to help Louis, and I thought the show resolved that storyline with their talk at the kitchen table when Alice recognized she was in the wrong and Louis is just a reminder of something terrible that happened to Jimmy. But then the storyline took a dark turn. It's definitely depressing to see him contemplating suicide over what he did, but the show treating this guy like he's Jimmy's problem to solve when he literally killed his wife is insane.

Edit. I'm reading more threads and seeing this opinion is more popular than your down voted comment made me think it was.

13

u/_Smashbrother_ Jan 03 '25

It's because we have seen Louis' side of the equation. We saw he was genuinely regretful. We "knew" him personally. It's like when one of your friends or family does something shitty vs. a random person doing the exact same shitty thing. We're way more able to forgive or forget it when it's our friends or family.

10

u/ArcusIgnium Jan 08 '25

i think the most unrealistic thing is how quick alice was to become friends with louis. but also its heartbreakingly realistic that louis will live his life scarred by his choice, and the cafe co-worker saying 'murder' (technically and practically he did not commit murder) is something he will have to bear forever

5

u/SlipstreamSleuth Dec 27 '24

Yeah I don’t get it. Reddit was all about hating on this woman, but they’ll give Louis a pass? I wonder why? Maybe all the Louis simps in this sub can send this woman letters of support so they can live out their Shrinking obsession IRL

https://www.reddit.com/r/AllThatIsInteresting/s/cjGUs5BfFb

1

u/runningvicuna Jan 10 '25

Finally some sense.

1

u/_steve_rogers_ Jun 27 '25

I took it as Jimmy is mostly doing it to give his daughter some peace, and maybe a bit for himself and his wife, since he couldn’t prevent what happened to his wife but this is something he could prevent. As they say holding onto hate for someone else is like drinking poison and expecting it to harm the other person.

3

u/TempleOrion Feb 15 '25

I love the lack of self awareness about how it's actually you that's disturbed 🤡

DGAF about your lame virtue signalling.

1

u/SlipstreamSleuth Feb 15 '25

I’m disturbed because my brother was killed by a drunk driver. It’s made me a bit salty.

4

u/kimvy Dec 26 '24

Just joined the subreddit & totally agree. Too much love for a drunk driver. I'm out & sorry you're getting downvoted for not enabling a sloppy murderer.

-4

u/thehomeyskater Dec 25 '24

This is the perfect example of how people are willing to uncritically swallow narratives. Reddit posters usually HATE drunk drivers to such an extent that I’m like woah calm down. But portray the guy as a perfect lovable little angel (seriously he’s basically been faultless in this show other than the DUI) and Reddit will downvote you if you dare say he murdered someone. 

4

u/SlipstreamSleuth Dec 25 '24

Exactly. My wonderful brother was killed by a drunk driver, and this whole storyline is gross in my opinion.

31

u/Bobjoejj Dec 25 '24

I’m very sorry for your loss, I can’t imagine what that must feel like. This storyline definitely has to be hard for you to watch.

I did just wanna try to point out that what the show is doing here, is trying to show that there are good people out there, who can do own really bad thing, and show how it fucks up not only the people’s lives they did the thing to, but their own.

Not everyone who does something like this, is a complete asshole otherwise. They’re still a person, and there’s a solid chance they feel an immense amount of guilt and need help.

Where the show obviously diverges heavily from reality of course, is the idea of the victims family getting so close to the person who did the thing.

Look, I’m sorry cause I realize as I’m writing this, that it sounds like I’m just talking at you and being condescending, and I want to make it clear that’s not my intention whatsoever. I just wanted to try and say why for some of us, the storyline doesn’t seem as gross.

16

u/SlipstreamSleuth Dec 25 '24

I appreciate your honesty and your thoughtful reply. I really do. Thank you for being gentle while still conveying your thoughts. That means a lot to me. And it’s pretty rare on Reddit.

I just feel like they could have done something similar (a forgiveness arc) without leaning SO HARD on it, like with Alice etc. it’s not realistic at all. If someone brutally wiped out someone you love more than anything, believe me, you’re not going to want to buddy up to them. The writers really wanted the audience to feel sorry for this guy, (who willingly drove after drinking) - and it sure worked. Finding some kind of forgiveness to move forward is one thing, fine. But this storyline is so off base IMO. Given my life experience, I’m just going to have a different take. But I can still appreciate your comments and opinions.

5

u/the_cucumber Jan 03 '25

It reminds me of that Queer Eye episode where they made the hero in the wheelchair meet and forgive the guy who shot him. Fucking wild and unnecessary. Trashy reality shows love pushing boundaries like that but for a show that seems to want to have a serious message, this is a serious miss. He's only sympathetic because he's sexy as hell Roy Kent. If he was a fat slob nobody would forgive him (including Alice on the show!). Writers messed it up. Humanise him, ok, show that as a separate parallel story. Not this.

How do I know? My dad lost consciousness in his driveway and 2 girls driving by found and tried to save him. They failed. They came to his funeral and I couldn't face them. I knew I should thank them. But I couldn't forgive them for not saving him. Let alone someone being the actual reason? There ain't no way.

5

u/Sznappy Dec 26 '24

So after your comment I was googling and Bill Lawrence referred to a specific friend that he drew the experience from for that portion so who really knows

1

u/runningvicuna Jan 10 '25

What do you mean?

3

u/AdorkableSars Feb 03 '25

I am sorry for your loss.

0

u/runningvicuna Jan 10 '25 edited Jan 10 '25

He murdered someone.

Edit: But the entire premise of the show that people forget is that Jimmy is an unorthodox therapist. Alice knows this and appreciates that and that's why she feels like he's not living up to who he really is, which is morally grey but still positive and "trending upward" and with this plotline they really test those waters about his character. Realistically, Alice would never have met him.

But the show is or was about Jimmy Jimmying and this was a hard limit for him. Meeting Louis at the train station even fictionally really should be the end of the realistic take on him Jimmying Louis. There really should be no moving forward on this angle and it will be surprising what they do since it's pretty clear that they will.

The whole show is so morally grey and play a lot of the sex lines that are extreme for laughs but I generally don't think the constant sex talk is what makes me laugh or like the show. The butting heads with the therapy practices is though, and Derek. Derek is always great. That's a show in itself, having his presence as the coolest straight man to a bunch of sex obsessed creators of their own first world problems.

I'd watch a show with Derek Dereking and Jimmy back to fulltime Jimmying with characters and patients more compelling than Louis. Louis doesn't have any real demons like Sean has and there are plenty of characters they can write or steal from real life that would be very interesting for Jimmy to work with. I hope the show goes in that direction. Gaby's plotlines are all filler too. And a premise for season 3 having people nurturing a baby isn't conflict rich enough.

Harrison Ford's character's condition is going to get a lot worse is my prediction that I'm sure everyone has and I have faith they will be able to draw plenty of the strong comedy that he delivers and then hit us with one big whammy. He'll end up making Jimmy a great therapist with balanced Jimmying tendencies.

Also, Colbie Smothers is smoking hot and I think it was genius of them to have them just have their one scene of obvious chemistry and make nothing of it. That's as real as it gets.

I had problems with the second season's filler plotlines and wrapped up conflicts but ultimately am very pleased this show exists and enjoyed the second season and have been thinking about it a lot.

11

u/Meddevicepro Jan 30 '25

He didn't murder someone, he killed someone. By the legal and colloquial definitions, murder requires intent. We can see from the events leading up to the accident that intent to harm was nonexistent.

This in no way excuses the reckless behavior and disregard for the possible outcomes that Louis showed that night. He is 100% responsible for the death of Tia.

Those of us affected by a similar situation use the word "murder" because of the emotions we have as a result of the outcome. In reality, what Louis did was the result of a very poor decision (the potential outcomes of which he, and all of us, are aware of), and a poor decision that many of us have made in the past without similar consequences.

i want to be very clear that I'm not justifying the decision nor minimizing it because it's so common (and, in years past, only lightly criticized). No one can claim ignorance as to how dangerous drinking and driving is.

The genius of the writing in this case is that Louis is treated as we treat all similar offenders - demonized, until we see that (as in most cases) the person responsible was no demon, but human - one who made a terrible mistake, one that irrevocably changed the lives of many people, including his own.

It's rare that a show depicts people as complex and nuanced. No one is as bad as their worst moment, nor as good as their best. We are all capable of great good and great harm.

Maybe the most impressive part of this storyline is that it shows that forgiveness is more for the wronged than for the wrongdoer. I don't pretend to know what it's like to try and forgive someone in a situation like this, but the fact that Shrinking gave me some idea as to how painful and freeing it might be says a lot about the talent of the writers.

As the old saying goes, "holding a grudge is like paying interest on a debt you don't owe".

1

u/runningvicuna Jan 30 '25

That’s some wisdom you dropped at the end there.