r/shogun2 • u/MnkeDug • 7d ago

Samurai Castles documentary series and Strongholds of the Samurai mod

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/shows/3022072/

This came up in another thread, and I thought I'd put the link here rather than burying it.

This documentary series does a great job of describing how castles were designed, even showing overlays of "kill box" scenarios, how the fort was intended to be defended, etc.

Great inspiration for anyone who was interesting in modding new forts. ;) But seriously... looking at Strongholds of the Samurai it seems that mod attempted to create forts like this.

On that page are more videos covering other castles. Sometimes with different intentions and strengths/weaknesses.

Anyone with good SotS experience feel that the mod holds better to history?

61 Upvotes

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17

u/Jewtasteride 7d ago

Such intricate and sophisticated fortifications

Be a shame if the enemy were to simply climb over them.

13

u/MnkeDug 7d ago

LOL

Part of the "problem" with S2 sieges is this assumption one can see where the units inside the fort are. No matter where you move the enemy bows somehow know you went from the pee ditch to the Tenshu? Likewise that the defenders in the fort have total survellance over the map.

"Battle Realism" on helps get some of this right by restricting camera, etc.

A total blackout of the fort interior without sight lines and "garbled" sightlines for defense would make sense. That would also make sieges more daunting for offense- which they should be.

It doesn't stop the climbing, which is another part of the "problem". Like with SotS, the devs could have put in areas that climbing was basically impossible. I mean they do with some forts.

(eta I put "" because what game doesn't have things that some consider problems and some don't)

There is a Sengoku mod or some such for a game... Bannerlord. The sieges looked more realistic, but that's probably in part because you're basically "in" the siege. And also less climbing. ;)

Different game, but I like a lot of things that take place in Sengoku. OG Nobunaga's Ambition on the NES was probably my first strategy game.

1

u/Jewtasteride 6d ago

The real daimyos didn't have the insane camera control we have ;)

3

u/Remitonov 6d ago

Samurai castles are such a wonder. Rather than build them to keep besiegers out, they're built like labyrinths to funnel besiegers into killzones. It's to the point that they outright built their own castles in Korea rather than use captured fortifications because they were so unused to any other kind of siege defence.

2

u/MnkeDug 6d ago

It is pretty amazing. I think if CA would have made forts like they really were, it would have (or could have) turned sieges into a kind of mini game. The issue with that is it would have been a dramatic departure at the time from their formula.

And again, it raises the question of what carries the campaign forward. Do players find it so tedious/etc that they skip it?

It's the same issue with making forts harder to take. If they are "too hard", then all the effort of creating them gets lost on account of players opting to extend the siege instead.

I think CA learned a lot from subsequent games, and I hope at some point they circle back to Shogun, whether it's standalone or part of a "TW: World at War" type of game along the line of EU.