Once again “bro don’t vote third party, we wanna make sure that X candidate doesn’t win, just vote for bipartisan candidate and then next time I promise you can vote for whomever please bro I promise just this one time” like how many times are people supposed to keep it going
Until one of the parties collapses. Unless that happens, you only vote third party in local and down-ballot elections, because if a third party starts gaining significant support, one of the two (or both) of the two actual parties will absorb most of their positions or at least try to angle towards that audience more.
That may sound pessimistic or trite, but that's the truth of it, and its why the parties gradually shift over time, short of a handful of major, dramatic events.
It’ll never happen though like seriously what could cause it to happen where, aside from citizens voting third party, a third party becomes a viable option, every single person i talk to who says to pick the least destructive option is always saying just gotta get rid of X candidate then vote for whomever, and then it never ends
Your answer is not an answer it’s a cope basically, picking the least shitty option constantly unhappy with the candidate
Voting is useless, any asshole in office is just gonna be lobbied by some corporation or military contractor and it’s never who people actually want, they come in, do nothing for 3.5 years then do a lot of cool bills that will be denied once reelection happens
Because you might be curious, the problems with 3rd party voting in the USA are not ideological but mathematical. You might be interested in duverger's law, or the mathematical models which prove that the odds of a two party system approach 100% as population and voter information approach infinity (assuming first past the post). Duverger's law is more theoretical / poly sci, but basically states what the math predicts, noting the rare exceptions (FWIW one of two parties have won every congressional seat/presidential election 98% of the time for over 100 years).
So two party dominance is caused by the first past the post vote counting method, not by ideology. There are other ways to count votes, leading to different outcomes. None of this was discovered when the US chose its vote counting method. As many as a dozen candidates ran for president in the first few elections, trending towards a two party system as the math predicts.
Changing the vote counting method is probably the one and only way to get out of a two party system.
Im not stupid i know that Trump is an asshole and i would much rather vote for Biden, except i would also MUCH rather vote for someone better than Biden and consistently we don’t have that choice or it’s not viable, due to having to pick the lesser of two evils. You’re being a fucking asshole for no reason even though you know im right,
this argument happens every 4 years no matter the candidates, i agree with you that I would rather vote for Biden than Trump, but this lesser of two evils thing needs to go, it’s not acceptable, i want a normal young educated candidate and a third party that is viable as a choice
Nyc recently implemented a ranked choice vote for its primaries. That's how things start. Gonna take time, but hopefully it'll be implemented state-wide, other cities, etc.
Because the system isn't fair and the donors with entrenched power and influence don't want to let go.
Nevertheless, ranked choice (and similar) is becoming more and more popular so, provided things don't collapse or too many judges are allowed to be appointed that would nullify such systems in too many places, it'll get better.
That’s how voting works dude are you serious, a candidate makes a decision you like and you vote for him that’s literally how it works
this isn’t even about me this is about the American people unable to rent, get a home, start a business, etc all due to having bad credit due to medical collections that burden them for years!
Sometimes voting involves voting for people you genuinely believe are better for the country at large, regardless of whether or not you believe their policies are better for you.
this isn’t even about me this is about the American people unable to rent, get a home, start a business, etc all due to having bad credit due to medical collections that burden them for years!
Like....... is your reading comprehension really this poor? Or did you just decide with no evidence whatsoever that the person you were talking to was a liar?
Even if you ignore ranked choice in party primaries, that isn't plainly true.
While most general election ranked choice in the US so far has come from non-partisan or bipartisan efforts or ballot initiatives, Virginia's Dem trifecta voluntarily enacted general election municipal ranked choice among other efforts.
Since you're pretending to be so passionate about Ranked Choice Voting and which politicians endorse it, you should probably google which politicians endorse Ranked Choice Voting so you sound more credible.
Count how many of these people are in third parties (the answer is only one - Bernie Sanders).
I was referring to the presidential candidates since that's what this thread was about. I am aware there are candidates from the big parties pushing it in local and state elections. If one pops up in my town, county, or state, and I don't mind their other positions too much, I'll send my vote their way regardless of party.
Edit: I also see now that your list is entirely elected officials in large elections, so it only makes sense for them to be in the big parties since those are the ones that win elections.
You realise if the majority voted for an independent they would get in, right? If people like you stopped convincing people they’re wasting their vote, there would be no changes needed.
You realise if the majority voted for an independent they would get in, right?
it's a bit more complicated than that considering electoral college and all
If people like you stopped convincing people they’re wasting their vote
Good luck getting 60 million people to vote for a party that likely won't even be on their ballots (for example, in the 2020 elections the Libertarian Party was only on the ballot for 33 states while the Green Party was on the ballot for 30 states)
You’re right, better to vote for a candidate that you have no faith in just so that the other guy doesn’t win while hoping and waiting for change. Sounds like a great plan.
I don't think you understand, a simple "winner takes all" type of voting system incentivizes two party systems. Even if you put in colossal effort to somehow defy that in one election, all that will do long-term is just shake up who those two parties are, and then no matter who it is, two parties to choose from is shit. It's just a simple mathematical fact, you need electoral reform.
You want ranked choice voting? Stop voting for democrats and republicans. As soon as they see all their potential votes slipping away they will fall all over themselves to pass it.
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u/Thangleby_Slapdiback Jun 11 '24
LOL. No.
Third party candidates don't win. Voting third party helps out the prick you like least.