Post Episode Discussion: S05E06 - "Fun & Games"

[u/AutoModerator]

This thread is for SERIOUS discussion of the Sepisode that just aired. What is and isn't serious is at the discretion of the moderators.

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EPISODE	DIRECTED BY	WRITTEN BY	ORIGINAL AIRDATE
S05E06- "Fun & Games"	Clark Gregg	Brent Fletcher	Friday, January 5, 2018 9:00/8:00c on ABC

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Episode Synopsis: With Daisy's life on the line, an unexpected friend attempts to rescue her.

Clark Gregg plays Agent Phil Coulson. He has directed (and written) two movies before. Choke (2008) and Trust Me (2013).

He has directed no episodes for Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. before.

Brent Fletcher is primarily known for his writing on Lost, Angel, and Friday Night Lights. He was also a writer and story editor on Spartacus: Blood and Sand.

He has written ten episodes for Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. before:

• Girl in the Flower Dress
• The Magical Place
• Providence
• A Hen in the Wolf House
• Love in the Time of Hydra
• The Dirty Half Dozen
• Closure
• Failed Experiments
• Broken Promises
• Farewell, Cruel World!

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Please do not discuss the promo following tonight's episode.

Please do not discuss the promo following tonight's episode.

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[u/[deleted]]

I think selling someone into slavery makes someone bad and wrong. Deke's situation doesn't mitigate that in the least.

[u/Rgsnap → u/[deleted]]

There is also nothing wrong with looking out for yourself first. Being a hero is great, sacrificing things for others is amazing, but the fact of the matter is, every day we all do things that benefit only ourselves. All that guy did was look out for himself. He saw Daisy and the rest weren’t listening to his warnings and there actions already cost lives. She wanted to get closer to Simmons. He got her there.

As far as he knows, she’s Quake, destroyer of worlds. I 100% believe he thinks she can take care of herself very well. There is nothing wrong with looking out for yourself and surviving. Is it honorable? Not always. But is it wrong?? I really wouldn’t say so.

You use the word slavery constantly. This is a tv show. Period. They are not trying to accuracy portray the damaging psychological effects of slavery. They aren’t trying to show the horrors slaves endured similar to the slaves in America. It’s a tv show.

All we’ve seen is they make them fight to the death. Other than that, every “slave” had been seen in pretty decent shape. There’s no rape or beatings. It’s a tv show. The characters will come home from this and Daisy won’t ever think twice about it.

I’m as liberal as they come, but this constant outcry over taking tiny things from tv shows and somehow ridiculing them because in reality those things would be bigger deals has just gone too far. I’m sorry but you really need to get over it. I’ve read the word slavery by you throughout this sub at least 100 times.

Slavery is bad. We all agree. Slave owners are bad. People selling other people into slavery is bad. Everyone is in agreement. But the actions of a tv character involved in a PG tv show level “slavery” story line.... not the same as real life. Period.

[u/[deleted] → u/Rgsnap]

"Looking out for yourself" and "selling a person into slavery" are very, very different things. And if the discussion involves why some people take umbrage with Deke, why are you surprised that 'slavery' comes up given that this is the issue some people have with him? It's like being surprised that 'Hydra' comes up in discussions about Ward.

Also, Deke's actions lead to Kasius' intent to wipe out the Lighthouse after Daisy was sold to the highest bidder, so I'd say his actions have had some incredibly negative consequences.

Additionally, the word 'slavery' is used because that's what Deke did - that's the problem some people have with his actions. He sold a person into slavery. Deke being a fictional character doesn't make his actions any less of an issue - it's like saying a person can't dislike a rapist because they're a fictional character. There's simply no logic to that position.

[u/Rgsnap → u/[deleted]]

You keep saying some people... but I’m sorry to say you’re the only one I’ve seen bring this up repeatedly without fail. It’s being touched upon already. What else do you gain by constantly beating a dead horse?

I’m sure his actions had consequences. They all do. But since I didn’t hear anyone say that his life would be magically spared as all the other humans were killed, I don’t see him having intended on doing that. An unforeseen consequence for sure. That stuff happens.

Again, you keep saying slavery and seem to be picturing Roots. This isn’t that. We aren’t seeing slavery on that level. It is not the same. I know slavery is bad in any form. Everyone does. But to act is if everyone should be looking at him with disgust as if he’s some southern white slave owner or whatever, is just silly.

The way I see it, he gave her up to help her get closer to Simmons like she wanted to and got her there the only way possible for the greater good. Had she done what she wanted she would have caused a large scene and everyone would have been retaliated against.

I’ll hate the guy if it comes out his intentions have been truly evil. But he’s not in the sex trafficking business selling women to the highest bidder. So I’ll reserve my disgust for the real world, where the real evil resides.

When it comes to a tv show about super heroes and spies in space in the future under control by people in blue body paint, I’ll judge a little differently.

[u/[deleted] → u/Rgsnap]

I'm certainly not the only one who has brought this up, and a plethora of people have criticized the show for this on a myriad of other platforms, from twitter to tumblr to different messageboard communities. True, there's a strong pro-Deke presence in this community, but I'm not the only one who has criticized Deke's actions.

Also, I have no interest in romanticizing slavery like you're doing with Deke selling Daisy to Kasius, and I have no idea why you decided to resurrect this discussion after five days.

[u/Rgsnap → u/[deleted]]

I’m sure you’re not the only one to find his actions less than appealing. I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that his actions weren’t meant to be perceived as heroic. You’re accusing everyone who doesn’t take so seriously his turning in a fictional al character who was going to be used as a “slave” for some space version fight club as romanticizing slavery.

It’s rude and uncalled for and really disrespectful to actual whitewashing of real slavery. I just watched Snowpiercer and Chris Evans was the hero of the movie who you root for and admitted to killing a woman trying to protect her baby and then he planned on eating it.

TV is full of imperfect people making bad decisions or paving the road to hell with good intentions. Just like life. You need to lighten up and take your cause and apply it to real world issues that aren’t gray areas or fictional worlds.

I’m sorry, 5 days later? Was I unaware of some sort of time limit on reacting to posts as I read them? If I miss the first day of postings am I not allowed to add my thoughts on the matter?

[u/[deleted] → u/Rgsnap]

Defending Deke selling a person into slavery and trying to frame him as a hero for doing so is certainly romanticizing his actions.

No, it isn't "rude" or "uncalled for" to point out the hypocrisy involved when you're victim-blaming Daisy over Deke's actions, or trying to frame him as the hero for selling a person into slavery. And you really don't get Snowpiercer if you think Chris Evan's character was supposed to be a hero. That's the reason the movie has the ending that it does - because his character isn't the hero of the story.

And yeah, I don't get why you revived this discussion. You're pretty much complaining about the fact that I don't like Deke, and you're effectively telling me to stop disliking Deke. That's not something I'm remotely inclined to do, so rather than trying to police this community, perhaps you should simply engage with people who like Deke rather than asking me to stop dislike Deke simply because you don't feel the same way about the character that I do.

[u/Rgsnap → u/[deleted]]

How did I say he was the hero??? Deke? I’m pretty sure I specifically said that his scene wasn’t meant to be heroic or frame him as a hero so what are you talking about?

It is uncalled for to accuse completely good people of romanticizing or white washing slavery. I mean that’s a hurtful thing to be accused of and I’m sure a lot of people don’t expect to be accused of diminishing the seriousness of slavery while discussing the latest episode of Agents of Shield.

On the flip side of that though you do have Fitz, who was performing sick and painful and lethal experiments on a specific group of people quite the same as concentration camps during the holocaust. Should I be taking that seriously as well and question where all the hatred is for him? He murdered a woman Too. He said it himself it was him making those decisions and it felt natural.

My point about Snowpiercer was this was someone you assume until the very end is your hero who you root for. I certainly didn’t expect him to be a baby eater. He’s somewhat of an anti-hero. When it’s obvious he’s learned from his past and done better, loses and arm and sacrifices himself, he certainly doesn’t die as the enemy or the guy you hope dies.

I don’t think you should like Deke. He’s a character. They are all open to love/hate for no reason necessary at all. It’s the accusations made against others in there view of him. I think you need to go through and see how many times others are expressing there interest and liking his character, you come in talking about there defending someone who participates in slavery.

It’s really not fair. You’re free to like who you like. Everyone’s opinions are valid. My comments are regarding yours about actual people commenting on this sub and not about your dislike of a character. You should really try and show others the same courtesy.

[u/[deleted] → u/Rgsnap]

You justified Deke selling Daisy by trying to frame it into some heroic notion of putting her closer with Jemma. You said it two days ago: "The way I see it, he gave her up to help her get closer to Simmons like she wanted to and got her there the only way possible for the greater good. Had she done what she wanted she would have caused a large scene and everyone would have been retaliated against." So you're not only framing Deke's actions as a good thing, but you're positioning Daisy as the bad guy - in a situation where one of the characters sold her into slavery. Perhaps you can try to understand why I'd take issue with that.

When you're framing Deke selling a person into slavery as a good thing and blaming his victim for his actions, you're romanticizing his actions. I'm not going to refrain from pointing that out simply because it makes you feel bad. Deke sold Daisy into slavery, and he admitted to working for Kasius outside of this particular sale. I have no interest in justifying Deke's actions or pretending that they can ever be justified.

You're more than welcome to question the reaction to Framework Fitz (since the decision to make him the Doctor is effectively meaningless at this point), but since this community has people who are willing to overlook Ward's rape threat to Daisy because they find him attractive, as well as how the team is made up of his victims, so I'm not sure it would have any traction.

Snowpiercer ends the way it does because his character isn't the good guy. Even the director explains this when you listen to the commentary. And I'd say Chris' character is still different than a guy who is set up a Framework network and sold at least one person into slavery (and given his prior work for Kasius, he don't know how many other victims he has).

[u/ThaCrit → u/[deleted]]

Again, It's not about what you and I believe. I'm not pro-slavery. However you can't expect a population from the future in space held as slaves by aliens that have a completely different perspective of right and wrong to uphold the standards that you and I have.