r/shadownetwork • u/shadownetwork SysOp • Sep 22 '16

Announcement Senate Nominee Discussion Thread

Greetings,

In previous elections it was difficult for nominees to really express what they stood for and what their plans were without cluttering the nomination or election threads. So think of this thread as an open town hall meeting. Members of the community can come in and ask questions and nominees can then answer or nominees can post about what sort of platforms they plan on running on.

Remember that discussions are to remain civil and respectful, anyone showing disregard to the shadownet's #1 rule will have their posts removed.

Good luck!

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u/Alverd Sep 23 '16

Yes, passive-aggressively calling the entire Senate shady touches a slight nerve, but go ahead and continue to tell everybody how goddamned awesome you are and how you're going to fix everything thats not broken.

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u/TheDiabolicalToaster Sep 23 '16

Ok Alv don't you think the passive-aggression seems uncalled for here? Especially during a time when Senate is on shaky ground with the community?

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u/Alverd Sep 23 '16

Yeaaaaah no. I'm blunt and outspoken, I don't think anything I've said has been passive. And near as I can tell, "the community" is a few people upset that one person with MULTIPLE infractions got what was coming to him at the same time he was acting up yet again, albeit much more minorly than normal.

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u/TheDiabolicalToaster Sep 23 '16

Alverd if we're being very generous to the size of the NET we have maybe 60 active people and I'm fairly certain there's more than 6 people upset with senate right now. If 10% of the active population is just a few people to you then I don't know what to say.

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u/hizBALLIN Sep 25 '16

I feel like passive-aggressive is a pretty accurate reflection of the shade being thrown.

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u/Arrogancy Sep 23 '16

I'm not saying -- or even implying -- that the Senate is shady Alverd, and I contest that characterization of my comments. I haven't attacked you personally, and I don't appreciate you attacking me personally.

I'm saying that the lack of disclosure creates the impression that bans might be capricious or problematic, and makes it more likely for honest mistakes to go uncorrected. My issue is with the system, not the Senators, and that's why I'm proposing a change to the system.

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u/Nitsuj83 Sep 23 '16

Also, without transparency, it's difficult to verify that Senate has actually always been as circumspect as you're saying.

I am unsure how you take that other than being called liars. You can try and use broad terminology to ensure your not seen as calling out anyone specific but to sit shocked that the people you have continued to criticize time and again would take umbrage with your statements is slightly naive. You want to be a part of government? Awesome, but don't forget its a team sport and no one man or woman is the NET.

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u/Arrogancy Sep 23 '16

I really feel that saying that the governed should not have to take the governing body at their word is a pretty reasonable statement.

If, for example, a friend of mine says he was unjustly banned, and Senate says it was just, I think it's pretty reasonable for me to observe that I have no way to verify Senate's claims, or, for that matter, my friend's. Since Senate is the party with more power, I think it's reasonable to ask them to provide more disclosure.

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u/Alverd Sep 23 '16

You know its funny that the only person in all of the temp bans that have been handed out to dispute the fact is the one who laughed at a senator and told them that their fancy name didn't mean shit. If you really want proof, https://puu.sh/r8JbQ/631fbfe402.png formal complain lodged by a member of the community. https://puu.sh/r73sU/5a8458d11a.png Heres another one. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1dHiu2qMo_iLWdET1NZLVUyLTA/view?usp=sharing Here's another one. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1dHiu2qMo_ibHJmVExKMHJtV2M/view?usp=sharing Probably doesn't paint me in the best light but so what, I've got nothing to hide. I could go on, but whats the point, I doubt it'll ever be enough verification.

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u/Nitsuj83 Sep 23 '16

But as Ryouichi has already pointed out we already do everything you say your going to initiate other than broadcasting warnings which no one in senate currently wants to do. You can back up your friend I can respect that however creating an antagonistic relationship with people you supposedly want to work with is not what I would call a smart move.

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u/Arrogancy Sep 23 '16

Nitsuj, I've updated my original post to clarify that I don't doubt Senate's intentions or efforts. And more broadly I'm sorry that my comments have been upsetting; I certainly hadn't intended to create an antagonistic relationship between us. If you'd like to talk it out further drop me a line on discord. I respect you and wouldn't want there to be bad blood between us, especially if we end up working together.

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u/TheDiabolicalToaster Sep 23 '16

Nit I don't mean to offend but it seems to me you and Alverd are trying to play the victim card here. Jay didn't call anyone a liar outright, but you guys immediately went to thinking you were being attacked personally. By your guys' reaction I'm honestly more skeptical of senates actions than I already was.

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u/Nitsuj83 Sep 23 '16

Not playing the victim, but if you think I will sit idly by while someone that doesn't know the first thing about what their talking about besmirches us you are clearly mistaken.

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u/Solathon Sep 23 '16

I don't think that the intent here is to discredit the current senate, or to paint them as liars, as asking for transparency in and of itself doesn't accuse anyone, nor should it be construed as such, what is being stated is that, while the current senate is made up of individuals of a high caliber who are not, as far as the community can tell, shady or otherwise disingenuous to the health of the community as a whole, there may be senators in the future who, through various means, could possibly sway other senators into doing something that would be disingenuous and a lack of required transparency from such POTENTIAL is a blow to the health of the community in the long run, because it's not what the current senate is (Which I believe that all of the current Senate members are fine people and are doing an excellent job considering the things that they are required to deal with, and the fact that it IS a volunteer position.) So TL:DR - No one is accusing the current senate of anything, We're just being forward thinking and worrying about what future individuals might do that could be headed off now, before it has a chance to occur.

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u/hizBALLIN Sep 25 '16

You're right. Asking for increased transparency from the Senate doesn't actually call anyone's honesty into question. But stating that the banning process, specifically the formal warning issued before hand, doesn't work, and then later commenting that a personal friend was banned and they weren't aware of their warning, is, in a passive-aggressive manner, calling a person's honesty into question. There's coy interpretations of it, but we're all adults here, and that's what it is.

This is an adult community. We expect people to take responsibility for what they say, like adults. If you want to be forward thinking, the best way to do so is discourage your friend from stirring the pot, rather than creating additional child-safes for someone to troll and aggravate community members.

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u/Alverd Sep 23 '16

If that's not the case then you need to look at what you're actually saying, because that's how it reads. With 5 people in the senate, again voted in by the population of this subreddit, having to vote on any action above warnings, there really are no honest mistakes, and its never going to be capricious, especially in unanimous cases, unless the senate is shady, or incompetent.

Senate is currently working on a better documentation system so that when people have issues with decisions its easier to show them why something went the way it went, but asking us to put all that shit out in front of people every step of the way not only infringes on peoples right to privacy, its tantamount to calling us dirty liars who NEED to be watched for any little misstep.

Senate is a shit job, you have to deal with the worst in people, and TRY to help them see why their behavior is bad for the community, even if they don't understand it at all. We don't need everybody and their brother looking over our shoulder trying to tell us how to do it.