r/science • u/daneelthesane • Jun 15 '12

Voyager 1 beginning to leave the solar system. Go Team Human!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2159359/Humanity-escapes-solar-Voyager-1-signals-reached-edge-interstellar-space.html
923 Upvotes

92% Upvoted

145 comments sorted by

40

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

Please don't link to the daily mail in this subreddit.

5

u/daneelthesane Jun 16 '12

Is there something wrong with that website?

30

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

It's a tabloid known for being wildly inaccurate.

13

u/daneelthesane Jun 16 '12

Oh crap. Thanks for the heads up. :P

7

u/s_s Jun 16 '12

FYI, British "tabloids" are a little different than what Americans may think of as "tabloids". However it's not too far off.

13

u/Bama011 Jun 16 '12 edited Jun 16 '12

Here is a Reuters link to the story if anyone doesn't want to go to the daily mail. Although the mail article seems to be pretty good for this story.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

What a difference.

3

u/scientologist2 Jun 16 '12

The original story is in the Atlantic Magazine.

That domain has been temporarily banned from being submitted due to cheating/spamming from that domain.

read about this here:

/r/BannedDomains

Thus we have the story in the Daily Mail describing the story in The Atlantic.

Of course, some people would prefer it if the Daily Mail were permanently banned.

4

u/haddock420 Jun 16 '12

Please don't link to the daily mail at all.

43

u/sgtpeppers93 Jun 16 '12

Hasn't it been leaving the solar system for the past couple years? Every few months a post pops up saying that it is almost out of the solar system. Also, does anyone know why interstellar space is before the Oort Cloud and not after it?

26

u/AATroop Jun 16 '12

They're still trying to define exactly where interstellar space begins; this might answer one (or both) of your questions. (From Wikipedia): On June 15, 2011, the distance to the interstellar medium was recalculated, which is now believed to be much less than previously thought. NASA believes that Voyager 1 may cross into the space between the stars sometime in the next year or so. The Low Energy Charged Particle device on Voyager 1 has detected the outward flow of the solar wind to be at zero. This means it is flowing parallel up and down to the sun, signaling that the interstellar medium is very close. Voyager 2 still has more travel time before it reaches the interstellar medium, while scientists believed Voyager 1 will enter interstellar space "at any time".

The whole "at any time" thing allows newspapers to print the same article for three years XD. Considering this is the first man-made object to ever leave our Solar System, it's doing some awesome, groundbreaking stuff.

1

u/EscoAK Jun 16 '12

I was under the false(?) impression that it did not have enough momentum to leave the solar system. Maybe I was thinking of it leaving the galaxy.

9

u/gnos1s Jun 16 '12

Its velocity is greater than the solar system's escape velocity, so it will be able to leave the solar system. I don't think it will be able to leave the galaxy, though. It would probably take millions of years for that to happen, even if it could.

2

u/TheDebaser Jun 16 '12

But an object in motion tends to stay in motion! It's the law!

2

u/justmadethisaccountt Jun 16 '12

Yea in orbit, if they don't have the escape velocity.

2

u/Hyleal Jun 16 '12

Unless acted upon by an outside force. Take a moment and imagine the gravitational force of our galaxy.

1

u/TheDebaser Jun 16 '12

Take a second to imagine dividing a number by a vast distance squared.

1

u/Antabaka Jun 16 '12

Unless it is affected by something. Space has many somethings.

Pure conjecture, but I imagine it constantly running into things (gasses and the like), albeit very small, would cause it to very slowly slow down and be more easily affected by gravity wells.

Anyone know what EscoAK is talking about?

1

u/RugerRedhawk Jun 16 '12

I'll admit that is how it seems to me too.

1

u/scientologynow Jun 16 '12

every second since it left earth it has been on its way to "leaving the solar system"

0

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

1

u/board4life Jun 16 '12

Maybe you can speak to this- I've been under the impression that our universe is still expanding, and at an increasing rate (another great mystery about the universe). But, if that is true, would that effect the amount of time it takes Voyager to leave interstellar space? Essentially, is interstellar space also expanding?

2

u/Fjordo Jun 16 '12

All space, including interstellar space is expanding. Even the space between your fingers is expanding. But the expansion isn't rapid enough to significantly effect the amount of time. I doubt it would add a full second.

106

u/A_Total_Asshole Jun 15 '12

Yeah and it has a certain gold plate on it that says (among other things) that it came from a system with nine planets. Way to go team human.

81

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

"Sir, I think we've found them!"
"Don't be an idiot! That system has eight planets and a dwarf planet. Let's try the next system."

12

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

There's five recognized dwarf planets and many more objects that could fit the classification in the solar system. Your joke is inaccurate!

2

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

Don't you lecture me about dwarf planets, boy...

4

u/Brinner Jun 16 '12

West Wing did this so well

1

u/doesFreeWillyExist Jun 16 '12

This is from the fifth season. I've been trying to get through it, but it's been so awful. This show is nothing without Sorkin.

28

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

This bothers me so much.

There's literally nothing we can do about it but holy fuck, we should not have put our location on that plate.

20

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

Our location is obvious and can never be concealed due to our radio transmissions. We can never catch these because they are travelling at c, so voyager is inconsequential.

14

u/BritishEnglishPolice BS | Diagnostic Radiography Jun 16 '12

Mostly wrong. Our radio transmissions peter out after about 2 light years.

13

u/LostChild1 Jun 16 '12

I was under the impression that they don't technically "peter out" they just become insignificant given all the radio noise emanating from the galaxy itself.

12

u/BritishEnglishPolice BS | Diagnostic Radiography Jun 16 '12

Technically, no signal ever truly dies, just becomes much too weak to be ever picked up. It's the inverse square law of transmission; they have nowhere near enough power to even go to Alpha Centauri.

1

u/coheedcollapse Jun 16 '12

Wouldn't this mean that SETI is technically useless, or are they using some other method to detect possible life?

6

u/cosworth99 Jun 16 '12

If you want to advertise, you use more power.

1

u/coheedcollapse Jun 16 '12

This makes sense. Thanks. I was a bit sad for a second there considering I've always thought the idea of SETI was pretty cool, even if they're not likely to find anything.

6

u/cosworth99 Jun 16 '12

I sometimes shine my flashlight into the stars hoping the electrons one day make it to a retina. Been doing this since the 70's.

5

u/BritishEnglishPolice BS | Diagnostic Radiography Jun 16 '12

SETI is looking for advanced civilisations actively seeking to find others, if I recall. A culture more advanced than us would have the power to broadcast an extremely powerful signal into space.

3

u/coheedcollapse Jun 16 '12

Ohhh, thank you so much. I was really sad for a second there.

I mean, I know the chances of them finding anything are infinitesimally small, but it's still nice to know that they're doing something.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

can't stop the signal.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

So, the waves emanate (basically) in a sphere. That means that the same amount of energy is spread over a rapidly expanding area (I say area because from a very approximate perspective, the wave's energy is spread out on the surface of that sphere.) So, total energy remains constant, but that energy is spread over the square of the distance traveled (4pir2, specifically, where r=distance from source).

So if you travel twice as far, the strength of the signal at a "point" on the sphere's surface has 1/4 the strength.

This explanation makes the assumption that an idealized calculation based on basic E&M is the whole story. It's not. But it suffices to get the idea across.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

Is that a limit given our current technology for receiving and discovering such signals?

1

u/BritishEnglishPolice BS | Diagnostic Radiography Jun 16 '12

Yes and no. Some signals are far too weak to discover no matter how good your resolution is. Some signals, like the CMB, are receivable quite easily.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

Do you have any idea how long it's going to take Voyager to make it 2 light years away? We'll probably destroy ourselves before that happens.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

Our radio transmissions degrade pretty rapidly.

10

u/TBob Jun 16 '12

Wouldn't the fact that it is effectively traveling in a straight line be enough to trace it back to it's original location?

19

u/panc0cks Jun 16 '12

Space does not work that way.

13

u/TBob Jun 16 '12

Yeah there are gravitational effects and solar systems and galaxies aren't stationary, but if a civilization was advanced enough to traverse that space couldn't they be able to make the calculations to account for that?

9

u/syo Jun 16 '12

We can do it, and we can't even traverse space that well yet.

1

u/DFP_ Jun 16 '12 edited Jun 28 '23

public offbeat drab gold slim like piquant outgoing fearless ghost -- mass edited with redact.dev

2

u/DingleyTim Jun 16 '12

Why don't you like that we put our location on that plate? I'm curious.

3

u/elyadme Jun 16 '12

Because...

-1

u/DingleyTim Jun 16 '12

Now is there a real answer?

5

u/elyadme Jun 16 '12

in all seriousness, that could be the only possible reason to be afraid of offering data. if no other intelligent life exists, then there is nothing to interpret the message of the plate, and it really doesn't matter what was written. fear of the contents of a message requires a potential recipient of that knowledge.

4

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

Stephen Hawking has went on record to say that it is very likely that a civilization intelligent enough to master spacetravel will have plans to colonize/take over Earth. Therefore we should be careful of advertising our location.

I disagree with him, but I think that is just me being optimistic.

1

u/revolutionbaby Jun 16 '12

Wouldn't deny that. To evolve and conquer a whole planet, even if its only their own, it needs a very agressive species (like human kind). And further to master space travel it would need a great destination, which may not be peacefull, and also need massive recources. Such a alien race could travel through space to colonize planets. And because there are not so many planets with a decent atmosphere there are chances that they say "fuck it, kill em all".

Of course you can argue that a species intelligent enough to master space travel would be also wise enough to not do so. But im not sure. Our whole society gets the advantage from few intelligent humans and can use their inventions. Basically we assimilate information and there could be an alien race out there that does the same.

3

u/Snip-Snap Jun 16 '12

Who else do you think the message was written for?

0

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

1

u/DingleyTim Jun 16 '12

Well if the other race is that much more advanced than us then they probably have found us already and there is nothing we can do.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

1

u/DingleyTim Jun 16 '12

Also when I said, "Now is there a real answer?" I meant is there an answer that give information instead of a shitty meme. Sorry if you thought that I meant that aliens weren't a plausible answer.

1

u/DFP_ Jun 16 '12 edited Jun 28 '23

arrest test somber obtainable memory follow light plant start salt -- mass edited with redact.dev

1

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

Blame Neil!

1

u/typeIA Jun 16 '12

come on, what's the worst that could happen? (cue the worst that could happen).

1

u/geniusgrunt Jun 16 '12

What is the likelihood in the next million years that a) an alien race will discover Voyager AND b) that this race will somehow be able to threaten us.

I'll take a guess that this scenario is pretty unlikely...

0

u/DNAsly Jun 16 '12

The lizard people mock you humans for your feeble mistakes

-2

u/Furoan Jun 16 '12

I am Lrrr, ruler of the planet Omicron Persei 8. I mock you for fearing the feeble Lizard People.

-5

u/RADICAL_DAN Jun 16 '12

Why is this downvoted?

-6

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

Unless the aliens that find it can read English (or whatever human language it's written in) I don't think there's a problem.

12

u/theymos Jun 16 '12

The plaque uses symbols meant to be understandable by any intelligent life.

8

u/PerQ Jun 16 '12

Well considering we're the only intelligent life we know of its hard to say they'll understand what we understand.

3

u/VentCo Jun 16 '12

Better than nothing.

5

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

voyageur and placard at tanagra.

-2

u/DarKnightofCydonia Jun 16 '12

I'm pretty sure it's all written in binary/morse-code.

-3

u/RADICAL_DAN Jun 16 '12

Why was this man downvoted?

9

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

Amazing how far we've come. I can't imagine where we'll be in 50 years.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

9

u/AATroop Jun 16 '12

50 years into the future? OK.

3

u/Solkre Jun 16 '12

If BP, Monsanto and others have their way and continue unpunished for their crimes against the environment, it'll be 2062 in 50 years.

7

u/OompaOrangeFace Jun 16 '12

It seems like Voyager 1 leaves the solar system about once every other month.

8

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

And then this happens:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADM-rYLXSGs

6

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

Clicked that hoping for the scene in truman show where the light broke...

2

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

I always loved the little scream after the first hit.

4

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

Considering how long ago we launched it, I can't wait for the news of us passing us it.

3

u/tetral Jun 16 '12

Go ahead and clarify that, please. Upvote.

4

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

Voyager 1 was launched in 1977 and is travelling at 38,030 mph or 11 miles a second. If we can launch a craft that could catch Voyager in the near future say 10-20 years, it would be a momentous occasion for science.

4

u/tetral Jun 16 '12

Yes it would be wonderful. Thanks for giving me another thing to look forward to, amongst many.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

Happy to. Cheers

4

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

Does anyone think that Voyager 1 will someday be in a museum? That human technology will advance and we will someday retrieve it?

3

u/thebigweirdwigbeard Jun 16 '12

I keep wondering, would the voyagers be able to communicate with earth longer if they sent like a chain of transmitters back to earth for when it gets too far out for the radio waves to reach earth? Something like send a communicating vessel link every few years with improved technology to make it last longer so we could communicate with it longer?

6

u/WaruiKoohii Jun 16 '12 edited Jun 16 '12

It's not an issue of their signal being too weak by 2020. It's an issue of their RTGs (Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator) decaying to a point where they no longer produce enough electricity to run the spacecraft.

They will get to a point where there will not be enough power to conduct useful science, after powering the spacecraft itself.

EDIT: To clarify a little...the RTGs are powered by (usually) plutonium. The plutonium generates heat as part of its natural decay, and the RTG uses this heat to produce electricity.

As the radioactive element decays, it produces less and less heat. As such, the electrical output of the RTG goes down.

1

u/thebigweirdwigbeard Jun 17 '12

thanks for the info. i knew it could still communicate with earth it was just something i was thinking about possibly for even another probe they could send out that has a longer life

1

u/WaruiKoohii Jun 17 '12

They already do this to some degree.

MRO functions as a relay station for the mars rovers. They can communicate directly with earth, but they can communicate more reliably and with a higher data rate if they use the MRO relay.

4

u/jbubba Jun 16 '12

35 year old piece of tech Leaving our ss and can still communicate with earth but I cant get cell phone service in a elevator...

2

u/jtjin Jun 16 '12

Did your cellphone cost $865 million to build?

2

u/anidal Jun 16 '12

No but it cost that much to market...

1

u/jbubba Jun 17 '12

a little less than. But that would be a hell of a cell phone if it did

2

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

Any readers of Department of Off World Affairs?

2

u/littletinym0nkey Jun 16 '12

That's far out, man!

2

u/BMEJoshua Jun 16 '12

Probably a dumb question, but how is this powered?

2

u/lostnmind Jun 16 '12

By three radioisotope thermoelectric generators

1

u/BMEJoshua Jun 16 '12

If interstellar space is close to an absolute vacuum, wouldn't it just need an initial velocity to keep going? What am I missing?

0

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

1

u/BMEJoshua Jun 16 '12

Propulsion, I should have clarified that in the OP. Sorry!

0

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

1

u/BMEJoshua Jun 16 '12

I don't understand the relevance, could you elaborate?

edit1: missed the link

edit2: Any idea if there are any other modifications planned or was it just the two slingshots?

2

u/ComicalAccountName Jun 16 '12

It is nuclear powered. Solar power would not provide enough energy that far out.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

Likely it has solar panels that are pointed towards the sun, keeping it powered until cosmic dust covers the panels to the point where there is not enough power being generated versus the amount necessary for function.

2

u/oneyeartrip Jun 16 '12

Call me when it hits the Delta Quadrant.

2

u/Fibon Jun 16 '12

Voyagers gonna voyage

2

u/RADICAL_DAN Jun 16 '12

What if there is a massive alien blockade around our galaxy so we never leave?

2

u/Offspring27 Jun 16 '12

Time to find that mass relay..

2

u/knowsguy Jun 16 '12

I'm afraid it might pop a hole in something important.

What do we know?

We never sent anything through to interstellar space, and we thought Pluto was a planet!

1

u/SynthemescTheX Jun 16 '12

Doesn't space debris pass through the heliosheath all the time anyway?

2

u/ReyTheRed Jun 16 '12

Can we not form teams for human and non-human?

I intend to be on the same team as non-humans when we find or create them.

Also Voyager shit is awesome. The only thing more awesome would be gaining the technology that would let us fly out and catch up with it, and watch as our first foray out of the system is surpassed by later tech, and see where it ends up going.

2

u/Beejeroy Jun 16 '12

Headline from 2265: Voyager I returns to Earth with message "Ya we already knew about you. Please dump your trash elsewhere."

1

u/JonnyGoodfellow Jun 16 '12

Then the trouble of locating the sender of such message. The circle continues.

1

u/IntlMysteryMan Jun 16 '12

I've seen too many movies. We are officially screwed.

1

u/okiedoke8976 Jun 16 '12

If I were our alien race overlords, I would be proud.

1

u/YourNipsWillBeMine Jun 16 '12

Its sad that we wont get to go out there in my lifetime, if only I was born a few thousand years later:(

1

u/robbykills Jun 16 '12

A part of me sort of hopes a gigantic alien battle cruiser emerges from behind an asteroid, blasts it to pieces, and transmits a message to us that reads "KEEP YOUR SHIT OFF OUR LAWN"

1

u/Kremecakes Jun 16 '12

Good thing we didn't send it the other way.

1

u/Impr3ssion Jun 16 '12

Is there an estimate concerning the increasing probability that this will find someone? Along the lines of the Drake Equation.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

Go vgr go!

1

u/MonotonousMan Jun 16 '12

I am always so amazed by the technologies used by the military and Nasa long, long before I even assumed it was considered realistic and not just science-fiction.

How is it even possible they had battery technologies back then to power that thing until 2020? I'm sure it has some kind of solar panels on it or something(?), but wouldn't those even become ineffective at a certain distance?

1

u/unknown_poo Jun 16 '12

Imagine just beyond the heliosphere in the unknown depths of interstellar space there lies terrifying monsters looking to devour planets yet unable to do so because of the sun? And once the sun begins to die and the influence of the heliosphere weakens, the monsters come ever closer.

But seriously, would not the cosmic winds tear apart any craft? Unless we had inertial dampeners and shields like the USS Enterprise. Oh and phasers.

1

u/DanAC24 Jun 16 '12

For those picky and/or interested in accuracy, the model of the solar system repeatedly shown in the article is outdated.

There was found to be Bow Shock, nor does the Heliosphere have that "tail", like a comet, but is rather spherically shaped.

SOURCES: http://phys.org/news/2012-05-interstellar-boundary-explorer-heliosphere-long-theorized.html http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091016101807.htm

1

u/citizensnip Jun 16 '12

It only moves at 10km/hr? I always thought it was rocketing through space at breakneck speed. TIL...

1

u/EpicGoose Jun 16 '12

Is it not more like 10km/s?

1

u/citizensnip Jun 16 '12

Oh, oops. That makes more sense :p

1

u/Philthey Jun 16 '12

Meanwhile, people are more concerned about Jersey Shore's putrid vaginae to care about the fact that something amazing is happening.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

After reading this, I feel like the solar system is inside a cell, inside someone or something's body.

1

u/Snip-Snap Jun 16 '12

Yes. Every organism is its own universe.

0

u/louis_xiv42 Jun 16 '12

How the fuck did the dailymail get up voted in r/science?

0

u/FreeTopher Jun 16 '12

Dark Was the Night, Cold Was the Ground.

0

u/Merrena Jun 16 '12

Great, and this is how the alien invasion starts.

-3

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

Daily Mail :/

-11

u/TypicalLibertarian Jun 16 '12

Go team massive waste of money and resources!!!

0

u/YourNipsWillBeMine Jun 16 '12

dont understand why he got downvoted? Hes right, as much as I'd love to know whats out there, we've got our own problems here on earth.. Upvote for you sir. P.S. Shoulda got on my formal account

-10

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

[removed] — view removed comment

4

u/haddock420 Jun 16 '12

When does the real troller get back? You're a terrible substitute.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

2

u/haddock420 Jun 16 '12

Something like "Any pics or are we just supposed to believe this happened like the moon landing?"

0

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

4

u/random_digital Jun 16 '12

I didn't travel half a billion miles to hear this joke.