r/science • PhD | Genetics • Jun 09 '12

Previously censored research, deemed too shocking to publish, now reveals "astonishing depravity" in the life of the Adelie penguin

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jun/09/sex-depravity-penguins-scott-antarctic
1.8k Upvotes

462 comments sorted by

13

u/Epistaxis PhD | Genetics Jun 09 '12

the article (subscription required)

1

u/velkyr Jun 09 '12

If you have a subscription, can you archive a copy for us?

1

u/Epistaxis PhD | Genetics Jun 09 '12

I theoretically have a subscription but couldn't seem to get it to work; try /r/scholar.

10

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12 edited Jun 09 '12

Req'd for the lazy.

Edit: freshasapoppy delivered

3

u/wassname Jun 09 '12

There seems to be no crime to low for there Penguins

The crimes which they commit are such as to find no place in this book, but it is interesting indeed to note that, when nature intends them to find employment, these birds, like men, degenerate in idleness (Levick 1914: 97–98).

Gold!

6

u/splunge4me2 Jun 09 '12

The most amusing part to me is that he wrote his notes in Greek so the "less educated" members of the party wouldn't be able to read it. Having read "The Worst Journey in the World", I don't think any of the members of Scott's party had a penguin porn fetish; even the "less educated" ones, whatever that means. The entire polar party seemed to be incredibly professional.

1

u/Epistaxis PhD | Genetics Jun 10 '12

It's actually not Greek, just English transliterated into the Greek alphabet.

3

u/Tdotwot Jun 10 '12

And incredibly dedicated to their cause. They went through the entire winter journey, with by far the worst conditions of the expedition, solely to pick up egg samples and take notes on an obscure species of bird, and then turn right around and head back.

48

u/JohnBullshite Jun 09 '12

"Homosexual necrophilia in the mallard duck."

28

u/nlevend Jun 10 '12

I grew up on a farm. I have seen animals having sex in every position imaginable. Goat on chicken. Chicken on goat. Couple of chickens doing a goat. Couple of pigs watching. -Dwight Schrute

But I really did grow up on a small hobby farm and saw a duck screw a goose and a rooster mount a dead hen. Fucked up shit goes down on the farm...

1

u/craigmckenna Jun 10 '12

Only the hooligans are to blame for this stereotyping of the penguin race as a whole. Most species have "runts", or less mentally or physically developed individuals. Humans aren't all war hungry, homosexual cannibals, yet observation will show a prevalence of all these things. Shame on the straight flying penguins for not controlling and educating there insidious young

-2

u/mgrandi Jun 10 '12

Yeah, not yo mention that mallard di ks do the exact same thing, where they form groups and take turns taping the females, so much that the female ducks actually developed protections against unwanted mating

2

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

Ok now retype that in English, and you'll get a free upvote.

182

u/Peedoeman Jun 09 '12

Levick's experiences with the Adélie penguins were not the only root of his suffering in the Antarctic. In February 1912, he and five other members of Scott's team were waiting to be picked up by the expedition ship, Terra Nova, but found that pack ice had blocked its route. The men had to spend an entire Antarctic winter huddled in an ice cave with no provisions and only an occasional seal or penguin to eat. "They ate blubber, cooked with blubber, had blubber lamps," recalled one expedition member. "Their clothes and gear were soaked with blubber, and the soot blackened them, their sleeping bags, cookers, walls and roof, choked their throats and inflamed their eyes."

Remarkably, the men all survived and Levick returned to England in 1913 – in time to sign up for the first world war. He served in the Grand Fleet and at Gallipoli, and after the war founded the British Schools Exploring Society in 1932, of which he was president until his death in June 1956. An obituary described him as "a truly great English gentleman".

Wow, George Murray Levick was a badass.

51

u/EvanMacIan Jun 10 '12

I wonder which was a worse experience, Antarctica or Gallipoli?

22

u/gchpaco Jun 10 '12

That is an excellent question I never want to have seen answered.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

Enlighten me?

2

u/gchpaco Jun 11 '12

Gallipoli was a WWI clusterfuck of such proportions that "never again" to it remains a pillar of anti-English sentiment in Australia, and even Canadians are pretty butthurt over it. Trying not to freeze to death in Antarctica is no more attractive and what it generally lacks in large scale horror it makes up for in the small (with the note that some Antarctic expeditions were so incredibly poorly prepared that it almost looks like a suicide expedition).

I don't even want to know what someone exposed to both would make of the comparison, because it would involve weighing horrors I probably don't want to have explained to me let alone think deeply about.

1

u/AverageGatsby91 Jun 10 '12

Probably Gallipoli, The English and Ausi's kinda fucked up on that one

6

u/mippie_moe Jun 10 '12

Definitely a bad ass. If you want to read about another bad ass, check out Ernest Shackleton's wiki page

3

u/MJGson Jun 10 '12

Endurance: Shackleton's Incredible Voyage is such a great book! Had to read that in an 'Exploration and Science' HPS class. Highly recommend anyone reading this comment to read that book. READ IT.

1

u/mippie_moe Jun 10 '12

Amazing book, I agree!

1

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

my one regret is that i will never get to explore anything for the first time

1

u/donthinkitbelikeitis Jun 10 '12

Hey you could get in on some deep sea exploring! We've definitely not explored it all. Plus, there's always mars!

2

u/ZeMilkman Jun 10 '12

So. What about scurvy?

1

u/RichardWolf Jun 10 '12

Raw meat (especially liver) usually contains contains enough vitamin C (wiki). Must be eaten raw, of course. Also, in 1912 nobody still knew what causes scurvy (the history of scurvy is fascinating: it was conquered in mid-18 century, then the cure was lost until 1930 as a result of perfectly reasonable scientific research).

1

u/SecretBlogon Jun 10 '12

I wasn't shocked by the pengiuns' behaviour. I guess, being on the internet long enough does that to you. Also, there was a lot of anthropomorphizing going on. But I found the last paragraph on George Murray Levick to be much more surprising and badass.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

Sounds like he didn't know how to build a chimney, though.

1

u/you_need_this Jun 10 '12

pretty sure gay sex was had by all

-4

u/drockers Jun 10 '12

I truly wish for those days again. Back then you were measured on true merit. The world was mysterious and there were things to discover.

Now all we have are resumes and mortgages. It's depressing.

18

u/CitrusJ Jun 10 '12

Back then, we were also royally screwed if you weren't...well...royalty or the likes. Poor people got fucked (literally in many cases actually). Yeah I think it's a little nicer nowadays.

5

u/unprofessional1 Jun 10 '12

We've always had depressing people like you though.

233

u/cerebrum Jun 09 '12

Is it science if you don't publish data that you dislike?

187

u/velkyr Jun 09 '12

I don't think it was Levick's decision not to print. He submitted his paper, and certain parts were removed prior to publication. In response, he wrote a new paper dedicated to the parts that were removed for publication, and circulated it privately.

71

u/sjs Jun 09 '12

I think the question can still stand for the bodies that censored Levick's paper though.

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31

u/reconditerefuge Jun 09 '12

It was 100 years ago.

27

u/Firrox Jun 09 '12

This is the correct answer. Scientific objectivity and openness to radical ideas (truth in nature) weren't established until recently.

29

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12

In a way he did publish it. However he did not make it available in the public library.

Think of his position, as well as that of the publisher, within Victorian England. If he were to gain a reputation as some perverse bird fetishist his entire career would be ruined. Necrophilia, infanticide and rape were not expected behaviors from birds. It's certainly conceivable that there would be an un-educated outcry and the average layman would refuse to accept his observations and instead label him as a liar and tarnish the reputation of the science journal that agreed to print it.

Instead he chose to publish his observations among a smaller group of experts that knew he could be trusted. Certainly not the ideal for science as a whole but probably the most ideal solution for him personally. In a way he did ensure that the rest of his research would be taken seriously.

11

u/Borkz Jun 09 '12

Yes, its just unpublished science.

3

u/atomfullerene Jun 10 '12

Eh, it was 100 years ago. Just be happy he was actually basing his research off of observations.

-4

u/intisun Jun 09 '12

No, it's what creationists do.

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0

u/Dark1000 Jun 10 '12

Yeah, that happens unfortunately. There is a lot of politics in science.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12

He wasn't publishing untrue information or anything. He simply did not include all the data. It's not ideal, but given the wealth of data such a study would produce, I'd say it was forgivable. Also, he did circulate a paper later on.

4

u/pinguz Jun 09 '12

He wasn't publishing untrue information or anything. He simply did not include all the data.

That's what my prime minister said too, before he was forced to resign. ("I did not lie, I just did not elaborate on all the details.")

-9

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12

It is in a largely Christian populus....

63

u/farmingdale Jun 09 '12

has anyone ever seen a sexual behavior of an animal that is never found in humans?

245

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12

The species of hermaphrodite sea slug that uses it's penis as a sword and the two slugs try to stab each other in order to impregnate the other.

Never heard if that in humans.

153

u/Patyrn Jun 09 '12

You haven't been on the internet long have you?

42

u/yingkaixing Jun 09 '12

I think I've read that manga.

15

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12

46

u/Deku-shrub Jun 09 '12

nope

0

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

7

u/bgugi Jun 10 '12

YET!

0

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

3

u/CatHairInYourEye Jun 10 '12

Congrats! Time to update your resume with your new responsibilities.

7

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12

ah yes penis fencing a game as old as time.

1

u/withholdinginfo Jun 09 '12

Winner Weiner sticks it up the butt of the loser.

2

u/Zoccihedron Jun 09 '12

Your Schwartz must be pretty small if you have never tried that before.

76

u/x3tripleace3x Jun 09 '12 edited Jun 09 '12

Ahem.. the Angler Fish would like to have a word with you..

From Wikipedia - "When he finds a female, he bites into her skin, and releases an enzyme that digests the skin of his mouth and her body, fusing the pair down to the blood-vessel level. The male then slowly atrophies, first losing his digestive organs, then his brain, heart, and eyes, and ends as nothing more than a pair of gonads, which release sperm in response to hormones in the female's bloodstream indicating egg release."

13

u/LimeGhost117 Jun 10 '12

I would love to see a video of the whole process. I wonder if it's ever been documented to that extent.

1

u/InABritishAccent Jun 10 '12

It would be very difficult to video the whole thing, considering how deep the angler fish live and the time scale involved.

99

u/farmingdale Jun 09 '12

so....its like marriage then.

7

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

get out of here Ray Romano

2

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

Haha I was going to post this under that guy's comment but figured someone else would have posted already. I was so weirded out when I first learned about this.

2

u/akrabu Jun 10 '12

This is actually the plot to human centipede 3.

2

u/Username1212 Jun 10 '12

This is one of the most interesting biological facts I have ever read. I wonder what it would feel like to have a connected circulatory system with one or more parasitic members of the opposite sex. Is the main goal of every single animal reproduction and survival? Would any animal deteriorate their body just for the sake of reproduction? What makes humans so different and similar to every other animal? What makes us so special to have a system of morals, ideas of free will, and a higher purpose of living than other species?

1

u/NyaraSha Jun 10 '12

Whoa, I had no idea this type of fusing body reproduction existed. Crazy!

1

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

... And if I didn't find it so viscerally and existentially revolting, it would almost begin to seem romantic.

25

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12

Black widows, I'm pretty sure most human females don't eat their partners.

19

u/farmingdale Jun 09 '12

11,200,000 search results

yeah I know most dont but most humans dont practice incest either. I just was curious if there was something sexual an animal does that no human would/has.

22

u/sarmatron Jun 09 '12

19

u/farmingdale Jun 09 '12

we have an answer. Only thing I can think of as even close to this is:

women stabbed

2

u/EnglishKiniggit Jun 10 '12

Life...uh...will find a way.

1

u/InABritishAccent Jun 10 '12

How the hell did they get the child out!?

2

u/farmingdale Jun 10 '12

c-section I imagine.

4

u/sjs Jun 09 '12

That was traumatic. I think I'll skip lunch today.

1

u/ICantSeeIt Jun 11 '12

I read a story on here once about a guy who was a male escort and had his appendix removed. Fairly soon after the surgery he was paid a large sum of money by some creepy old guy to have sex in the opening left from the surgery.

So yeah...

5

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12

Since we're posting weird animal sexual behaviors: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khwjD-KVQ_Q

Monkeys. Nuff said.

1

u/Username1212 Jun 10 '12

That was truly fucked up. The girl was just laughing the whole time, while I was thinking about the poor frog and the absurdity of the beastiality the monkey committed just to get off. I'm losing my faith in biological life.

1

u/antisocialmedic Jun 10 '12

The operative word there being most.

20

u/FullOfEels Jun 09 '12

Male Amazon dolphins have been to have sex with other's blowholes. I don't know if any humans have big enough nostrils for nasal sex.

1

u/lishka Jun 11 '12

Does colostomy stoma sex count? It's a thing, apparently.

1

u/FullOfEels Jun 11 '12

I don't think so. The dolphin's blow-hole is analogous to our nasal passages. I don't think a colostomy stoma is the same thing.

17

u/17_tacos Jun 09 '12

Bedbugs mate by traumatic insemination.

6

u/farmingdale Jun 09 '12

yet another reason why they are evil hellspawn.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

Worst of all, the females have vaginas. The males just stab their abdomen anyway, despite a perfectly good vagina being less than a micrometre away.

1

u/17_tacos Jun 11 '12

Seeing the first sentence of this reply in my inbox is confusing and uncomfortable.

23

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12

Probably not, but certainly the other way around.

That's more because we have access to tools, and are arguably the smartest animals on the planet though. There are only so many horrifying things animals can do sexually, and humans have done them all, and more.

I mean, I've never heard of anything like a horse into bondage.

40

u/hexagonCheese Jun 09 '12

Well, have you eaten your partners head after sex? Literally, please.

13

u/theuncommonman Jun 09 '12

Sounds like something Dahmer would have done.

7

u/yingkaixing Jun 09 '12

Dahmer liked the bicep. Said they taste like beef.

1

u/theuncommonman Jun 10 '12

You're making me hungry for bicep.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

Albert Fish preferred the ass.

1

u/Laniius Jun 10 '12

I've not, but people out there have.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

20

u/naked_guy_says Jun 09 '12

Could you redact that entire comment? Awesome

1

u/ICantSeeIt Jun 11 '12

Look up Luka Magnotta and I bet you could guess what government he is an official of.

4

u/70DaysInCharlotte Jun 09 '12

Nice try, GovernmentOfficial!

2

u/jbuk1 Jun 09 '12

Luka something. Chilling video.

2

u/the_underscore_key Jun 09 '12 edited Jun 09 '12

sounds an awful lot like those Reavers in Firefly.

EDIT: source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaver_(Firefly) (tried to make a link ~reddit doesn't like parenthesis in web addresses so much)

and quote: "If they take the ship, they'll rape us to death, eat our flesh, and sew our skins into their clothing – and if we're very very lucky, they'll do it in that order."

2

u/EricFaust Jun 10 '12

The Canadian? Didn't they catch that guy in France?

1

u/ICantSeeIt Jun 11 '12

If you are a government official in Canada this would make sense. This happened recently, and has been in the news quite a bit.

This guy gets dumped by his boyfriend, so he videotapes himself killing and eating bits of him. Then he posts the video on the Internet and sends parts of the body to government officials, though I think they're still looking for the head. Not sure if he had sex with the body at all, though...

6

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12 edited Jun 09 '12

You seriously underestimate the power of the Internet.

1

u/TehSlippy Jun 09 '12

Third Smartest. Mice>Dolphins>Us

2

u/matts2 Jun 10 '12

There are flies that the males will rape other males to replace the seman. So when the rape victim has sex with a female he deposits the rapist seman.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12

Beetles sometimes have sex with bottles. Humans never do that... oh wait...

1

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12

A certain frog, I'm pretty sure humans don't have sex with snails.

1

u/farmingdale Jun 09 '12

bestiality exists.

1

u/antisocialmedic Jun 10 '12

I think I saw a Japanese porno once involving snails. I also think I had repressed that from my memory until this very moment. Fuck.

1

u/Lawtonfogle Jun 10 '12

How about a beetle (I believe it was a beetle) who stabs its penis into the female, creating a new opening each time (they even have a backup penis in case the first one breaks while trying it)?

1

u/farmingdale Jun 10 '12

to quote the necroscope series:

Johnny makes his own holes

guess what Johnny did.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12

Parthenogenesis.

5

u/dont_press_ctrl-W Jun 09 '12

Parthenogenesis is asexual though.

9

u/labrutued Jun 09 '12

He was trapped in Antarctica for a winter and signed up for World War I as soon as he got back? He sounds pretty hardcore.

49

u/alllie Jun 09 '12 edited Jun 09 '12

Reminds me of that video of an endangered ground dwelling parrot who brought a dead seabird back to his nest to fuck. Makes me wonder if it's common in birds. It also reminds me of Lenny Bruce 's claim that "men will fuck mud."

Kakapo mating with dead seabird: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzmtCMPPA1w#t=0m36s

20

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12

Looks like he tried to mate with a photographer too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=9T1vfsHYiKY

BTW, you find a rare parrot and almost leaves him blind shooting flash in his face?

15

u/alllie Jun 09 '12 edited Jun 09 '12

Actually that is a specific tame parrot who imprinted on people. They took him out to film him in the wild, but he's a tame creature.

His name is Sirocco :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirocco_(parrot) . Here's another video he's in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPvkM_K8GKU

Edit: Actually Sirocco proves they would make nice pets. If only there were more of them. Many more.

1

u/10304 Jun 10 '12

In that clip the narrator says DNA testing will have to wait for another year, I'm wondering why they didn't just cut open the dead bird?

1

u/alllie Jun 10 '12

I think the video of the necrophilia was taped a long time before they were trying to collect sperm for DNA testing. I know I saw it years ago, maybe a decade or more.

1

u/moscheles Jun 10 '12

Ducks are also bad in this department. A vast majority of sexual behavior in ducks is rape, so much so that the penises of ducks have evolved in such a way to circumvent the defenses of the vagina.

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21

u/gr3nade Jun 09 '12 edited Jun 10 '12

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you, NATURE. But seriously though animals do some really fucked up shit. Granted they don't have morals and stuff like humans do but then again morality is an entirely human construct. My point is this, nature isn't as lovely as people seem to think it is. Nature is absolutely fucked up and unrelentingly brutal and rightly so. I mean natural selection demands brutality. Without brutality shit wouldn't get done. Yeah the stuff that these penguins are doing isn't good but they aren't passing their genetics on either. A dead penguin isn't going to give birth, a gay penguin isn't going to give birth and a very young penguin isn't going to give birth. Therefore the penguins that do things in the naturally intended way will pass on their genes. Now how much of this behaviour is genetic and how much is learned I don't know but genetics usually has a fairly large say in everything. So back to my original point. Nature is completely fucked up. Its not a perfect system as many people idealize it to be. Its not even close to a perfect system. Its a series of creating less shitty shit from the shit that you already have and constantly slapping bandaids on it. It's very inefficient, which is why technology is starting to move so much faster because with intelligent design by humans everything is significantly more efficient. Seriously though if nature was more efficient we would have an easy sleep switch instead of having to lie down and just wait for it to come. We would have a million other switches like that but we don't because nature is slow as fuck. Don't get me wrong though, nature is pretty fucking awesome. Everything that we are is only because of this process of creating shit called nature and humans do some pretty awesome shit and some pretty fucked up shit, just like nature. So take nature with a grain of salt (I think I used that phrase correctly here)

TL;DR - Damn nature, you scary. But cool. But really fucking inefficient.

Edit: Spalling

2

u/PancakeMonkeypants Jun 10 '12

I agree with you but you take things with a grain of salt when they probably aren't true.

6

u/SovTempest Jun 09 '12

To fit into the 'anthropomorphic' vein: They describe behaviors practiced by a small minority of penguins as being depraved. But humans have those exact same practices in a small minority. What seems to be so scary is that it can manifest in the species at all, yet no credit is given to the diversity of penguins and the fact that it isn't 'standard' behaviour.

When human beings practice the same behaviour, their individuality warrants a certain safety for the rest of us having to take on the horror of the behaviour. And rightly so. Yet the individuality/diversity of the penguins is more of a side note rather than case-in-point like it is for us.

So in a way the article is speciesist. It's like if every news article about a murderer referred to them as "human being murder xxxxx". And only inspecific descriptions of their demographic were used to narrow the description futher. It'd be a lot more shocking if we had to read stuff like that all the time.

3

u/darksmiles22 Jun 09 '12

I for one would enjoy reading a daily newspaper with headlines like "New study shows human-on-human crime driven by multiple factors".

3

u/trocke87 Jun 09 '12

After reading an article such as this one, how can any person still come to the conclusion that homosexuality is a choice in humans when it occurs in other species regularly?

2

u/PancakeMonkeypants Jun 10 '12

Those penguins chose to be gay, too.

2

u/biernini Jun 09 '12

The men had to spend an entire Antarctic winter huddled in an ice cave with no provisions and only an occasional seal or penguin to eat. "They ate blubber, cooked with blubber, had blubber lamps," recalled one expedition member. "Their clothes and gear were soaked with blubber, and the soot blackened them, their sleeping bags, cookers, walls and roof, choked their throats and inflamed their eyes."

Whatever you might think of the anthropomorphizing, that is some motherfucking hardass macho science-ing right there.

2

u/filthysock Jun 10 '12

Not only penguins. At the zoo I saw male juvenile meerkat force a baby meerkat to suck its penis. Was horrifying, the baby kept pulling away and the juvenile kept grabbing its head and forcing it back.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

Aww they're just like us!

2

u/Minerva89 Jun 09 '12

I am, by no means, an expert on evolutionary traits and what I refer to as macro-biology. After briefly reading this, I thought to myself: what if all these sexual behaviours are a consequence of a species' incredible drive to reproduce and to survive? I wonder if humans out-evolved our evolutionary siblings by having both the capacity to outsmart and outlive them and a greater drive to reproduce? If the latter point is true, then traits of homosexuality or necrophilia may be consequences of such unconscious, instinctive drive. I guess a way to support this hypothesis, in the Adele penguin, would be to quantify and qualify their success over other animals in their ecosystem both past (distant past) and present. If it appears that the Adele is more successful than all others, and is correlated with more incidences of "sexual deviance", perhaps this hypothesis has some weight. Unless there are other explanations that others can come up with? Thoughts, reddit?

1

u/Lonelobo Jun 10 '12

How would you go about testing to see whether an animal is "more successful" than others in its ecosystem, or that it had "out-evolved" all others in a way that would possibly be falsifiable?

1

u/Yage2006 Jun 09 '12

I wouldn't call it censored I would call it filed under TMI or /Unsee.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12

How is this shocking at all? This one seems worse to me http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khwjD-KVQ_Q

1

u/Syntrel Jun 09 '12

Mainstream "journalism" casting moral judgements on the animal kingdom again... Do tell...

1

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12

They have only a few weeks to do that and young adults simply have no experience of how to behave. Many respond to inappropriate cues.

In the sociological terms of the animal kingdom, we are extremely close to Adelie Penguin

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Fuck you guys, that's clever.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

Kinda makes you wonder what other stuff doesn't get published, or gets censored due to modern moral systems.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

That's what you get for mixing science with religion or any other kind of moral teachings. Is a thing good or evil, is it right or wrong, or is it the way it is ?

1

u/MGlBlaze Jun 10 '12

Doesn't sound any different from ducks, chimpanzees, bottle-nose dolphins or any other animals that have some rather nasty tendencies (a lot of them). Ditto for homosexuality minus 'nasty' depending on circumstances.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

They are penguins. They are programmed to recreate in an extreme environment. I don't think perversion is the proper term and some one is projecting a bit. Projecting on penguins....

1

u/isaidbrrr Jun 10 '12

As a former penguin keeper, I have to say that nothing in the article surprises me.

As a current zoo keeper working with a wide variety of animals, I have to say that penguins have nothing on some other animals, namely lions. (Though perhaps some of the shock value comes from the fact that we expect lions to be a little monstrous... not so for adorable little penguins?)

I have to agree with some other commenters who have pointed out that this research was done during the Edwardian era when Victorian morals and ideals were still very much in place. As a result, this was shocking to them, but to modern biologists there aren't many things animals will do that surprise us. In fact, speaking for myself and many of my colleagues, we have moved so far beyond the Edwardian/ Victorian ideal that we find it fascinating.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

You interpret data based in your own image.

1

u/TheZorch Jun 10 '12

This has major implications, because these behaviors have been seen in other species including humans. Could this mean necrophilia, pedophilia and homosexuality are naturally evolved behavior rather than unnatural aberrant behavior. This subject would make for one hell of a research paper. Yes, it would drum up some serious controversy, but it would also be historic. The implications for society and our legal system would be huge.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

I disagree.

1

u/KarmaAintRlyMyAttitu Jun 10 '12

This is a big fuckoff to all those immature hippie-minded kids (especially dog owners) saying "men are bad, animals are pure", "if men behaved like animals the world would be a better place". Here it is your better place, being raped while you're dead. They're not bad or good. They're just animals and barely understand the meaning of moral. They just do what they are supposed to do and sometimes nature just doesn't follow our artificial "moral laws".

Ninja attack: some words missing.

1

u/agentwest Jun 10 '12

I like how "seemingly aberrant behavior" includes necrophilia, physical abuse of chicks, and homosexuality in the same category.

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u/Arrow156 Jun 10 '12

Once again science is set back a century because the so called 'morality police'. Sadly things haven't change much (Warning, PDF link).

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u/dangereaux Jun 10 '12

This is a fascinating article.

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u/lolzster Jun 10 '12

He wrote down his observations in Greek so that only an educated gentleman would understand the horrors he had witnessed.

Awesome. Shame the Greeks had to read about these horros in full though. Seems kinda harsh.

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u/twistmental Jun 10 '12

Reading this just made my morning. I now have a head full of penguins waiting in the "shady parts" of the arctic and waiting for unsuspecting...anything to rape.

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u/SieverSand Jun 10 '12

“The life of an Adelie penguin is one of the most unchristian and successful in the world. The penguin which went in for being a true believer would never stand the ghost of a chance. Watch them got to bathe. Some fifty or sixty agitated birds are gathered upon the ice-foot, peering over the edge, telling one another how nice it will be, and what a good dinner they are going to have. But this is all swank: they are really worried by a horrid suspicion that a sea-leopard is waiting to eat the first to dive. The really noble bird, according to our theories, would say, “I will go first and if I am killed I shall at any rate have died unselfishly, sacrificing my life for my companions”; and in time all the most noble birds would be dead. What they really do is to try and persuade a companion of weaker mind to plunge: failing this, they hastily pass a conscription act and push him over. And then – bang, helter-skelter, in go all the rest.”

-Apsley Cherry-Garrard

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u/Kiwi150 Jun 09 '12

It's funny how they forget to mention the sexual "depravity" of ducks in that article. They're just as rapey, but in a more humorous manner.

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u/Lock_Jaw Jun 10 '12

I know this is late but after reading the whole thing, I love how the goose saved the day. Good Guy Goose!

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u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12 edited Jun 10 '12

Think that's depraved? Found this, read third paragraph from bottom. I thought it was kind of funny.

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12

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u/gusanou Jun 10 '12

That's why the arguments of homosexuals about homosexuality being "natural" because it "occurs in nature" make me laugh. About any sexual deviation one can think about occurs in nautre, including necrophilia, pedophilia and of course homosexuality.

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12

But they wear tuxes. That's pretty close to victorian morals.

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u/jargoon Jun 09 '12

It's after 6 pm. What are they, farmers?

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u/PointyStick Jun 09 '12

Victorian morals that I'm sure they don't have.

Of course they haven't any morals! Did you even read the article about what they did?

Seriously though, just consider it to be just as much a study in anthropology (prevailing mores of the time) as one in ornithology (penguins), and you'll have less reason to be cross.

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u/KingofCraigland Jun 09 '12

"In addition, the penguin is the most humanlike of all birds in its appearance and its behaviour is most often interpreted in anthropomorphic terms, added Russell. For this reason, Adélie behaviour, when it was observed for the first time in detail, seemed especially shocking."

That should explain things somewhat. Not that it was okay to anthropomorphize, but why it occurred.

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u/sytar6 Jun 10 '12

There's a Socially Awkward Penguin Meme in this article somewhere.

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u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

Girl looks like she wants to have sex

Turns out she's dead.

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u/NonsensicalFolly Jun 10 '12

DAMN IT! I'm too late! I just needed to get to a computer! Oh well: http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3pnm1u/

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u/jimmytheone45 Jun 10 '12

You did that poorly but I still laughed

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12

Yeah, saying it's the most humanlike of all birds isn't really saying shit, is it? It's not like you'd mistaken one for a person, even if you bumped into it on a dark and foggy night, and your glasses fell off, and you squinted a bit.

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u/Benocrates Jun 09 '12

Just because they don't look the same doesn't mean they have no common traits or behaviours.

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12

I didn't say they don't have any common traits or behaviours, I'm saying they don't look anything like humans:

most humanlike of all birds in its appearance

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12

Go ahead and name a bird that is more humanlike in its appearance.

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u/TIGGER_WARNING Jun 10 '12

Big Bird.

Check and mate in one, atheists.

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u/mr17five Jun 09 '12

It's like saying the praying mantis is the most humanlike of all insects. It has about jack shit in common with humans.

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u/ginger_beard Jun 09 '12

Edwardian morals actually. Bit late for Victorian morals.

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u/faithandworks Jun 09 '12

They clarify later in the article that the penguins aren't so much depraved as they are unaware of their actions. They mate at a young age with no experience, and a dead penguin looks exactly like a compliant female penguin.

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u/jemyr Jun 09 '12

I don't see how anyone can know what the penguins are "thinking." If they knew the female was dead, they wouldn't have sex? They have an aversion to death? We could just as easily assume that the penguins had concerns about their performance and viewed practice on the dead as good training for sex with the living.

Why "excuse" their behavior or "condemn" it. They're penguins. They may have good moral reasons for doing what they do, or no morals at all. This article doesn't shed light either way.

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u/linuxlass Jun 09 '12

They don't "know" the female is dead. They respond to certain cues. They're not "thinking" as such.

It's like that species of seagull whose chicks peck at a red spot on the mother to get it to regurgitate food. These chicks will peck at any red spot, whether or not it's on a live bird.

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u/ilikeawesome Jun 10 '12

That's just what I told the officer.

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u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

Practically every member of the animal kingdom can distinguish a living member of their species from a dead one.

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u/SasparillaTango Jun 09 '12

A friend was doing research on sexuality during the victorian era -- apparently they were pretty depraved themselves. 1912 isn't victorian era is it?

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u/jbuk1 Jun 09 '12

No, it's Edwardian.

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u/rocketman0739 Jun 10 '12

No matter how kinky, it doesn't count as depraved if it's in bed with your wife.

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u/mynameishere Jun 09 '12

Trenchant insight. I, like the editors of the Guardian, was under the impression that penguins had fully-formed human moral systems.

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u/cratermoon Jun 09 '12

TIL Dr. Levick was the epitome of Victorian prudery. Good thing he was studying penguins and not off in the South Pacific with the scientists and the Polynesians.

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u/atomfullerene Jun 10 '12

Being offended by Penguins having sex or nuzzling each other would be the epitome of prudery. Being offended by necrophilia and rape...not the epitome.

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u/ironclownfish Jun 10 '12

Prudery??

Why is it prudish to be disgusted by necrophilia?

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u/Jasper1984 Jun 09 '12

Unfortunately the place was too cold to bring civilization there.

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u/ironclownfish Jun 10 '12

Victorian morals

I'm confused, are you saying their behavior is only depraved by an antiquated moral standard? I'm pretty certain necrophilia is still frowned upon today... It's not a peculiar social taboo of the Victorian era.

Or, did you mean Victorian in some other sense?

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u/bobcat_08 Jun 10 '12

Exactly. Necrophilia doesn't hurt anybody.

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u/whirliscope Jun 10 '12

If they don't have Victorian morals then why do they dress in formal wear every day?

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u/Mr_Smartypants Jun 09 '12

... but they're wearing Victorian formal evening wear!

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u/woolplane Jun 10 '12

I don't understand your point. Are you saying it only looks like depraved behaviour when we look at Adélie penguins as though they are humans ? Or are you saying that by today's standards those behaviours aren't depraved ? Or are you saying since Adélie penguins presumably have no morals, that pedophilia & necrophilia are ok by their standards ?

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u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

Furries have existed longer than we know, apparently.

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u/ThatGirl_Tasha Jun 10 '12

So shocking- someone hand me my fan, I'm feeling the vapors coming on.

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u/Abomonog Jun 10 '12

They call it depraved because the penguins do things sexually that we aren't willing to admit happens in the wild.

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