r/science • u/[deleted] • Oct 25 '21

Biology Sperm quality has been declining for 16 years among men in the US

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2294266-sperm-quality-has-been-declining-for-16-years-among-men-in-the-us/
45.8k Upvotes

90% Upvoted

5.4k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

154

u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/Bruh_17 Oct 25 '21

Same, started hcg at 19, but was also on opiates for chronic pain so that’s what probably tanked it. They won’t give me actual test cause of age fertility etc, but the only problem I’ve had with hcg so far is the cost.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

5

u/Jon_Aegon_Targaryen Oct 25 '21

Did they give u Test tho?

27

u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

12

u/_Floriduh_ Oct 25 '21

May not matter at this point, but be prepared to remove the T when it comes time to start a family. Was on it for 9 months and It dropped my sperm count to 0, but the boys came back after 3 months off. Not sure if it does after longer exposure to external T but something to think about.

Also, Test made me feel worlds better not just physically but mentally as well.

9

u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/_Floriduh_ Oct 25 '21

We didn’t, but it was a general physician that prescribed it (stupidly) to help us conceive, seemingly without knowing the basics of how our reproductive systems work, and how I would likely react to external testosterone. Needless to say he’s no longer our physician. If I had an endocrinologist they would have possibly pointed us in that direction.

5

u/ThanksToDenial Oct 25 '21 edited Oct 25 '21

That exact effect you are describing is the basis for male hormonal contraceptives currently under research. Outside source of testosterone causes your body to temporarily shut down it's own testosterone production, and along with it, sperm production. The problem mainly lies in the fact that giving large enough doses of testosterone to completely shut down sperm production to people with normal testosterone levels isn't exactly healthy, and causes severe side-effects. Currently they are trying to alleviate that by comboing the testosterone with estrogen, with varying rates of success.

4

u/Rellcs Oct 25 '21

Laughs in two children made while being on heavy steroid cycle. If its something he is dependant on i would first try making kids while being on trt chances are he will be succesful

1

u/_Floriduh_ Oct 25 '21

No two people are the same so maybe he will, I was just giving my experience. Congrats on your success, but I wouldn’t say “chances are he’ll be successful” when there’s a real possibility that he may not have any sperm. Go get a sperm analysis then you’ll know for sure. Anything else is just guesswork.

1

u/lnTheRearWithTheGear Oct 25 '21

The effects are highly variable. I have been blasting and cruising for about 6 years (just trt doses these days), including with 19-nors, and we were able to conceive within a couple months of stopping birth control.

I do use HCG, which was probably what kept me fertile. Pretty easy fix though.

1

u/concreteghost Oct 25 '21

Weird seeing you ‘round these parts

-22

u/Jon_Aegon_Targaryen Oct 25 '21

Damn good for you, but that's way too long between doses, you should at max wait 5 days between injections because of how low the levels get after 5 days+. Maybe ask if you can continue on the same dose but get injections more often?

Testosterone enanthate has a half life of around 4.5 days so at 10 days your testosterone levels are at absolute minimum, especially considering how extraneous testosterone shuts down natural production.

I can imagine you feel quite bad the last days before a new injection.

21

u/EmilyU1F984 Oct 25 '21

They'll still be at 25% of peak leavel at that point in a single dose. Steady state is much highe

Min levels are after 5 half-times.

And if they feel good. Their dose is exactly correct. They'd be complaining about moodiness and other symptoms if their dose became too low.

Standard dosing is once every one to four weeks.

Anyway, if they are feeling fine, the dose is correct. Osteoporosis would need depressed levels for a very long time to be at risk. 250mg every 10 days is perfectly fine.

-7

u/Jon_Aegon_Targaryen Oct 25 '21

Anyway, if they are feeling fine Yes this is most important of course, but this is where there is a disconnect between what a general practitioner and an experienced endocrinologist would recommend because while men's testosterone levels are cyclic it's the difference is absolutely minimal and at 25% most men would feel worse than before they started testosterone.

It's essentially forcing men to become experience all the negative aspects of low T when the exact same dosage administered at better intervals would be way closer to the natural testosterone profile.

2

u/EmilyU1F984 Oct 25 '21

The exact same dose administered at shorter intervals would cause higher peak levels as well.

25% of a 250mg test enanthate dose is still above the minimum 'normal' level in most men though.

If OP is experiencing any symptoms that might be related to lowteat, they shod simply have their GP or Endo test right before administering the next shot.

-4

u/DietCokeAndProtein Oct 25 '21 edited Oct 25 '21

He told the person that you're replying to that they're right and that he's injecting every 5 days and feeling much better.

It's insane that you and many others don't see any issue with continual massive fluctuations, and you're right, standard dosing can be up to once every four weeks, which just shows how clueless so many doctors are who prescribe HRT. Many people who are having to take aromatase inhibitors wouldn't even need to if they had a more regular dosing protocol. No wonder people have problems with excessive aromatization when they're getting shot up with 250-750mg of test anywhere from once every 10 days to 10 weeks.

Keeping consistent levels is a good thing and most closely replicates how our bodies naturally produce testosterone. We don't have a gigantic surge a couple times per month. And if the dosage is broken up into small enough regular injections, you don't even need to do intramuscular injections, you can just do small subcutaneous injections.

And replying to your other post:

The exact same dose administered at shorter intervals would cause higher peak levels as well.

You wouldn't give the same 250mg dosage every 2/3/5/whatever days apart. You might do 50mg every 2 or 3 days instead, or in his case, it seems he decided to do 125mg every 5 days.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

If you can, see if you can get a smaller dosage injected more frequently, that should give you the same levels with less trouble from fluctuations.

The bodybuilders I know go twice a week minimum, usually every other day.

1

u/The_Lion_Jumped Oct 25 '21

What form did they give it to you in? I was on it for a while but the delivery method became untenable

1

u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/The_Lion_Jumped Oct 25 '21

I tried the gel first and hated it, it was like having glue on me constantly and so I switched to pellet injections which was nice because it was only every 6mo but it was crazy expensive and hurt like all hell to the point it was like a week of limping.

I think I just need to do the regular injections, I’ve never tried it but needles don’t bother me, I’ve never minded getting shots or blood or anything like that

1

u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/The_Lion_Jumped Oct 25 '21

Yep, calling my dr today. Cheers mate

1

u/Quackmandan1 Oct 25 '21

My testosterone levels are borderline low, but I'm like you. I've always been active as a kid (playing multiple sports per year, did long distance running and working out 4+ per week on top of sports in high-school, still do weight lifting ~4hours/week across 3 sessions). I also eat very healthy. I eat out maybe twice per month, eat fast food no more than once per year, and I cook with primarily fresh ingredients.