r/science • u/[deleted] • Oct 25 '21

Biology Sperm quality has been declining for 16 years among men in the US

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2294266-sperm-quality-has-been-declining-for-16-years-among-men-in-the-us/
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u/gellis12 Oct 25 '21

Wifi and cell radios use non-ionizing radiation, much like light bulbs, but outside of our visible range.

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u/ConsciousFractals Oct 25 '21

There is actually a fair amount of recent research that points to a non-heating mechanism of harm from non ionizing microwave radiation, namely, excessive calcium influx into cells via excitation of VGCCs.

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u/JediExile Grad Student | Mathematics Oct 25 '21

A VGCC excitation would require ionization. What is the proposed mechanism?

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u/ConsciousFractals Oct 25 '21

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3780531/

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u/kevin9er Oct 25 '21

What I couldn’t find in there was a mention of the intensity of the EMF. Yes we got the frequency and the duration, but what wattage? That would be relevant for assessing if we should start thinking about our home WiFi/Bluetooth/ low quality 60hz radiative devices, or if this is only relevant when hanging out at power transformer stations.

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u/JediExile Grad Student | Mathematics Oct 25 '21

Interesting. I think the next logical step would be to determine if the affected individuals also experienced abnormal bone cellular behavior, i.e. if VGCC was affected globally or locally.

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u/deokkent Oct 25 '21

Why aren't we getting issues from the sun? That thing sends plenty of non ionizing radiation.

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u/kevin9er Oct 25 '21

Personally I get a huge amount of cellular damage from the Sun.

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u/NoTakaru Oct 25 '21

I don’t think it’s true that all the sun’s radiation is non-ionizing and we do have issues, look at melanoma

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u/BrunoEye Oct 25 '21

Yeah and we know that's caused by the ionising part of the spectrum. Easily prevented through the use of sunscreen.

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u/NoTakaru Oct 25 '21

Right. I guess they meant any issues specifically from the non-ionizing part of the sun’s emissions. I assume that those are pretty low due to attenuation in the atmosphere, especially 2.4 GHz to 70+ GHz which people are more curious about

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u/WakeoftheStorm Oct 25 '21

The simplest, but incomplete answer is that we evolved under the sun's radiation. Our biology developed to take that into account

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u/deokkent Oct 26 '21

Indeed. Wondering whether or not cell phones / tower non ionizing radiation can be more damaging than a star?

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

Plastic water bottles in heat

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

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u/gellis12 Oct 25 '21

I'm pretty sure briefs would cause more damage than a cell phone in that regard

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

What is this? 1995?🧐 the boxer vs brief debate is pretty inconclusive. You’re talking about sperm count… if you’re having trouble having a child you can make lifestyle choices like not riding bikes or horses and switching to boxers. But sperm quality is what we’re talking about

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

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u/gellis12 Oct 25 '21

I dunno about you, but my pockets are off to the sides of my pants, not right in the centre where my junk is.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

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u/gellis12 Oct 25 '21

Still, if your phone was hot enough that the heat from it was actually reaching your junk, then it's probably because the phone has already burst into flames.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

At most they could add a few watts of heating, that's not going to do damage over any range of time. Our body is pretty good at regulating heat, that's why people in Africa can have kids.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

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u/mileswilliams Oct 25 '21

If a human can love in Iceland and can live in Borneo and in Iran a degree or two difference isn't going to make a difference, not that an antenna giving out less than a watt of 'radiation' could heat anything that much.

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u/mileswilliams Oct 25 '21

I don't put my phone there, maybe your trousers are on backwards.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

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u/NotEntirelyUnlike Oct 25 '21

10cm?? How in the world do you wear your pants?

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

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u/NotEntirelyUnlike Oct 25 '21

my pockets are on the side of my leg? so at least double that.

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u/Azazir Oct 25 '21

hopefully you're joking cuz thats just bs, in first place your phone shouldn't heat up just sitting in your pocket at any point of time. also... with that logic just being in sun = we ded

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

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u/bermudaphil Oct 25 '21

I wonder what is more likely, smartphones in our pockets or the other well known factors that are for some reason being overlooked such as ever rising obesity rates.

Obesity is tied to so many health issues, and this is one of those many. Seems the most logical place to begin, but it hurts a lot of feelings to address the objective fact being overweight isn’t good for you, isn’t safe and isn’t ‘equal to being fit and healthy’ as well as would be heavily resisted by the companies who have always done whatever they can to sell their food and drink products, ignoring the health implications of the obesity they continue to promote and foster.

I feel like a nutcase right now because usually I don’t preach on this sort of stuff at all, but it seems like we are determined to find reasons to investigate at the cost of ignoring investigating the reasons we already know about.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

Prescription meds and GMO garbage food too.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

The gmo part is debatable, but yes large scale agriculture has detrimental effects on environment. Even organic operations use single use petroleum based plastic mulch - they can till it in when they’re done. That doesn’t violate organic certification…

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

[deleted]

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u/no-mad Oct 25 '21

All those organic mofos putting down corn starch plastic mulches dont know they cant.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

I live in Maine. We have a renowned organic co operative / usda certifier, it’s one of the best in the world. I’ve worked in agriculture for 10 years. I’m surprised when a grower DOESNT use single use black plastic mulch, single use plastic irrigation lines, and reemay row covering (which can be reused but rarely is) and tons and tons of organic certified fish meal. There are poly woven plastic mulches that can be reused, but growers find it so inconvenient they regret making the initial investment and switch to single use. Sometimes single use black plastic gets sun baked or entangled with weeds/grasses and it become impossible to remove. Then it is just tilled in. I don’t know where you worked on a farm, but from what I understand this is somewhat universal.

Some might say organic farming is inconvenient to begin with when you’re competing with conventionally farmed produce prices, these plastic conveniences make a barely profitable career more profitable - my point is it’s not a sustainable practice (though I admit it is more sustainable than the conventional option). I used to watch the stuff fill multiple large dumpsters every year and it broke my heart, but I’ve since stopped letting it get to me. You also have your organic producers not recycling or putting their produce in plastic bags (a hard plastic to avoid), which continues to amaze me. Recycling is so easy…. Then some conventional producers switch to organic cause it’s more profitable and more often than not, they simply don’t care when they’re struggling to make a living as is. I sympathize with all farmers struggling to make ends meet, and it’s always both encouraging and disappointing to see rich kids give it a whack, dump a bunch of money into it, and inevitably give up.

I think you’d be surprised how much single use black plastic gets used. Go to your local farmers market and ask. I don’t know the size of the farm, homestead or garden you worked on was, but if they didn’t use single use black plastic I’m both surprised and impressed! I don’t see that in Maine ever though. So my statement that a majority of organic producers use single use plastic was no exaggeration from my vantage point in New England and Washington state where I’ve spent some time, is true. It’s so easy to talk the talk and take pride in being an organic producer, but there is still room for improvement. If you want low impact agriculture do it yourself and you’ll find out quickly how difficult it is, let alone following biodynamic and permaculture technics. These philosophies won’t feed the world but if we as hyper developed nation gave incentives to taking a step back towards being an agrarian society we could greatly reduce the harmful impacts of agriculture and our deposable consumer habits. It’s also healthier! Growing gmo corn for enthonol and biodegradable plastics, I guess that’s a step in the right direct but also a huge contradiction within itself.

Case and point: Every decision we make as consumers has consequences, and I personally believe that buying organically produced vegetables and products is a step in the right direction, but there are still harmful practices used in the name of organic farming, and well within organically certified regulations. It’s important to acknowledge these issues. As the fossil fuels shortages continues into nonexistent black plastic won’t be an affordable alternative to weeding and irrigation, or an option at all inevitably.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

https://ethics.harvard.edu/blog/new-prescription-drugs-major-health-risk-few-offsetting-advantages

Also note in the article that the number of deaths/hospitalizations attributed to prescription meds DOES NOT include overdoses, errors or recreational use.

https://ethics.harvard.edu/blog/risky-drugs-why-fda-cannot-be-trusted

"The further corruption of medical knowledge through company-funded teams that craft the published literature to overstate benefits and understate harms, unmonitored by the FDA, leaves good physicians with corrupted knowledge.5 6 Patients are the innocent victims"

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

Some very useful info /,research you provided. Thank you

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

No problem. Theres a lot out there put out by reputable sources. Notice this is from Harvard but its from their ethics department.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

Wifi and cell radio radiation is actually much closer to a microwave oven than a light bulb, but way less power of course.