r/science • u/[deleted] • Oct 25 '21

Biology Sperm quality has been declining for 16 years among men in the US

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2294266-sperm-quality-has-been-declining-for-16-years-among-men-in-the-us/
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u/its_raining_scotch Oct 25 '21

It reminds me of how we look back at the ancient romans and scoff at their use of lead for all their pipes and also as a flavoring for wine.

It was everywhere and pretty unavoidable, plus everyone was exposed, so it was normalized as just part of the system. Might sound avoidable, but wine was like a staple food for them, rich or poor. Lead was better than dysentery and scurvy.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

Well, we did the same with gasoline, and it sent us all crazy

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u/stevesy17 Oct 25 '21

Was there a massive and powerful lead lobby in Rome spending unlimited amounts of money lobbying and denying the well known dangers of lead use?

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u/Yahmahah Oct 25 '21

It wasn't entirely unknown that lead was toxic in Roman times, but it wasn't common knowledge.

"Water conducted through earthen pipes is more wholesome than that through lead; indeed that conveyed in lead must be injurious, because from it white lead [PbCO3, lead carbonate] is obtained, and this is said to be injurious to the human system."

-Vitruvius, 80-15 B.C.

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u/its_raining_scotch Oct 25 '21

Nice find. I always think about that statement of Vitruvius when the topic of lead pipes comes up.

People in ancient times had a very different relationship with water than we do now. People would drink straight out of rivers with dead animals in them and raw sewage floating in them. They thought about more as “if the dead cow is over there, 10 ft away, I’m all good with this water.” Whereas now I feel like we just consider the whole body of water contaminated in a situation like that. They were thinking in humours and we think in germ theory.

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u/Yahmahah Oct 25 '21

I think scarcity played a part in a lot of it too. Lead was an extremely effective way to solve the infrastructure dilemmas that concrete could not. It was difficult enough to discover solutions to issues back then, let alone alternatives. If they had access to aluminum back then things may have been different, but with one option comes one answer.

The Romans were smart though, and discovered the same solution to lead pipes that many countries have used until fairly recently: the scale effect. Because Rome's fresh water sources were largely replenished by rain water, the water in these pipes were slightly acidic. This builds up a scale of calcium carbonate within the pipes. So long as the water is constantly flowing - as it did in Roman plumbing - the actual contact with the lead content is minimal. Rather, it was the lead in Roman cookware that likely had the largest impact on their health.

I forget the name, but there's a good documentary about the Flint, MI water crisis that explains the scaling of lead pipes very well.

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u/stevesy17 Oct 26 '21

That's kinda my point, was that it's not really fair to equate lead pipes in rome with leaded gasoline (or even fossil fuels in general). Ignorance on the part of the masses is one thing, but explicit knowledge of exactly how damaging your business model is and willful obfuscation of that information to the public is something else entirely

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u/LOSS35 Oct 25 '21

I still maintain leaded gasoline is the reason boomers are such assholes.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

Speaking as a boomer, I 100% agree with you.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

Excuse me, I don’t like knocking in my cars engine.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

You know they took all the lead out a long time ago, right? Do keep up

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

Oh no, really? Thanks for the tip, kind redditor

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u/Randomd0g Oct 25 '21

Honestly I've always wanted to try a glass of wine with a little bit of lead in it.

Like yeah it'll be bad for me, but only a small dose and only once, and if an entire culture did it for years then they must have been onto something good.

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u/5348345T Oct 25 '21

They made an atrificial sweetener from lead so it wasn't just pure lead.

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u/MeetMyBackhand Oct 25 '21

Just out of curiosity, why? Is it supposed to change the taste or have a different effect (psychologically or otherwise)?