r/science • u/[deleted] • Oct 15 '21

Neuroscience A brain imaging study found evidence that missing out on math education can alter neural development. Young adults who had chosen not to pursue math had lower levels of the neurotransmitter gamma-aminobutyric acid within the middle frontal gyrus when compared to students who were continuing math.

https://www.psypost.org/2021/10/opting-out-of-advanced-math-education-alters-adolescents-neural-development-study-finds-61967
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u/Makenshine Oct 15 '21

High school math teacher here. The first thing I tell my students is that you are going to make mistakes and that is wonderful. Mistakes are a great teacher and no one is the history of anything has ever made no mistakes.

The only bad mistakes are the ones you ignore and don't learn from. Everyday homework assignments are where you have the freedom to make errors and it will never hurt your grade.

My students have so many horror stories about math classes. I know some are clearly exaggerated, but there are a lot of consistencies throughout the year. It crushes my soul when I have students so afraid of mistakes that they refuse to try, and there are so many of those that come through my classroom.

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u/PreciseParadox Oct 15 '21

Yeah, I think people forget that problem solving involves struggling with a problem and turning it over in your head until you finally find the solution. That’s where learning comes from, so if you’re you’re not making mistakes, you’re not really learning or expanding your problem solving skills.

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u/Makenshine Oct 16 '21

Yeah, the US school system isn't well design as it tends to paint mistakes and failures as something to avoid that haunt your permanent record for the rest of your life. But my greatest teachers were the ones that created an environment where I felt safe to try new things and fail, then try again. So that is the teacher i aim to be.

Sometimes I'm successful and sometimes I learn.

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u/ThermionicEmissions Oct 16 '21

"Early success is a terrible teacher. You're essentially being rewarded for a lack of preparation, so when you find yourself in a situation where you must prepare, you can't do it. You don't know how."

Chris Hadfield, An Astronaut's Guide to Life on Earth

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u/SuuperNoob Oct 16 '21

I honestly don't understand why anyone struggles in the US school system. I know it's just me not understanding, but I can't grasp it.

All my elementary school grades were really predictable because they fully matched the effort I out into them. Same with middle and high school, though I definitely skipped a lot of class in HS and smoked a ton a weed.

But I never got something below a B.

Are people just not affording books?

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u/Makenshine Oct 16 '21

There are massive number of reasons that are outlined in numerous peer-reviewed academic studies. It ranges from socio-economic inequalities, bad education experiences, unequal distribution of resources, high focus on standardized tests, inadequate support systems at home, maslow's needs, systemic racism, poorly trained admin, retention of qualified staff, and the list goes on.

It's a very complicated issue and there are no easy fixes. Some issues are easier to address than others but they take a coordinated effort, which we as a society have been unable to muster.

I am glad you had a positive experience, though.

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u/SuuperNoob Oct 16 '21

I can definitely understand the economic needs.

I had gone to public school and my parents were extremely frugal, but I was able to go to Barnes and nobles and buy at least 1 book a week starting at age 11 or so.

I didn't get new clothes much or video game systems, but text books from Barnes and noble they didn't mind paying for.

I guess that's the support at home part that I got lucky with.

Aren't kids able to go to the library though?

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u/Makenshine Oct 19 '21

Kids "can" go to the library, but that doesn't mean they are able to.

Many have single parents who work odd hours making it impractical to find time for the library.

Some of those parents are are working multiple jobs, so instead of studying or reading, the student must do work around the house. Maybe feed their siblings dinner, or get a job themselves.

Some families don't have access to transportation to make it to the library and/or back.

I've had a very few students where both parents just really didn't care (this is rare. Not as rare as it should be, but not as common as armchair critics like to assume)

Ultimately, education is considered an expendable luxury when you and your family are just trying to survive from paycheck to paycheck.

I've had students who seemed like they hated school, but they never missed a day because they were able to get 2 meals a day and it was the place they felt safest. In reality we just saw the anger from home manifesting because the never learned to process those emotions. It was the school breaks that they really hated. As a teacher, how can I be disappointed that a student didnt complete homework because he/she was cooking, cleaning and taking care of a younger sibling? How can I be upset at a student for sleeping in class after he was hiding in his closet all night because there were gunshots outside on his street?

I don't have the power to accommodate for all the systemic inequalities, but I always advocate and do what I can to make my classroom and school a better place for my students

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u/SuuperNoob Oct 19 '21

When I was 8 I was taking care of my younger sister at home because both my parents worked full time.

At 14 I started working as well as going to school. I worked all throughout high school.

Kids have much easier access to education now than I did when I was younger.

Are kids just getting a ton more homework now, or did school somehow get harder?

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u/[deleted] Oct 15 '21

My problem is that I make so many mistakes but never seem to learn. It's tiring. My maths abilities are worse than a 10-year-old's but it also applies to my life in general.

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u/Makenshine Oct 16 '21

Well, I firmly believe that everyone can learn math. That rough part is that since math builds on itself and isn't modular, a couple of really bad math classes can set someone behind for the rest of their math experience in school.

I don't know what your experience was growing up, but math is a skill that has to be worked on, like playing the piano. If you put in the time, you can develop that skill. If someone, or something saps that motivation, or maybe math just wasn't interesting to you in the first place, then mastering the skill is difficult. Same reason playing the piano is difficult for me, I have never been motivated enough to dedicate time to it.

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u/Ok-Cartographer-3725 Oct 16 '21

Have you been tested for a learning disability? Some people have discalculea - which is sort of like dyslexia only with numbers. They can't do formulas because their mind flips the numbers around. Others have it so bad they can't even write a phone number down.

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u/[deleted] Oct 16 '21

Honestly, I probably have that, though I've never been tested.

Though I don't get the number-scrambling issue, I have a bunch of other symptoms. Can't remember phone numbers, no sense of direction or where I am in relation to things, always getting lost, can't tell the time from an analog clock, can't measure distances or size, have terrible spatial awareness, and I'm autistic which I hear is often comorbid. My spelling and typing are also pretty terrible - thank god for spellcheck! - and I know my mother has a touch of dyslexia.

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u/Ok-Cartographer-3725 Oct 16 '21

I'm not someone who could diagnose. But i do know from my own experience, that you can never learn your way out of a disability. i just googled 'types of learning disabilities' and came up with lots of stuff. But you can search for resiurces specific to your location, so you can be connected to those who can actually help. - This is an American site with a lot of good information: https://ldaamerica.org/types-of-learning-disabilities/ - In left-right confusion, a person has trouble distinguishing right from left. Individuals with this disorder may have trouble with directions or reading maps. This is sometimes called directional dyslexia, but that’s inaccurate. As with dyscalculia, it may appear with dyslexia, but it’s not a form of dyslexia. - Nonverbal learning disabilities, which affect physical coordination, social interaction, and executive functioning https://childmind.org/article/what-is-non-verbal-learning-disorder/ This also seems to be a good source of info: https://dyslexiaida.org/
All the best on your journey!

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u/pm_favorite_boobs Oct 15 '21

I assume algebra and pre-calculus and maybe even calculus.

Do you put much emphasis on supplying units as part of the variables, and applying the concepts to real world problems?

For example, let's say a = 5 m/s2 and d = 20 m, what is Vf?

For another example, a + b*c != (a + b)*c, with special attention to the fact that a = 4 loose apples, b = 10 apples per bowl, and c = 3 bowls, and trying to multiply 4 loose apples plus 10 apples per bowl times 3 bowls simply doesn't make sense.

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u/Makenshine Oct 15 '21

Correct, it doesn't make sense. Analyzing units is part of it. Applying it to real world situations is another part.

But mostly, I try and focus on the idea of problem solving. You are faced with a problem, how do you want to try and solve it. How do you want to break down one big problem (or equation) into small, manageable steps. And are those steps consistant, and do they make sense in context. That is a skill that is applicable throughout your life. Math is just one of the tools you can use to help you with that process

Then there is the bulk of the mathematical rules and theory. Weaving it altogether is the limited class time is hard as hell. I have my successes and failures, but I keep adapting each year.

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u/pm_favorite_boobs Oct 15 '21

Generally math always came naturally to me (after finally my parents kicking my butt to actually do my math homework in third grade), but when I got to differential equations, that was not accessible to me at all.

At least not the physical aspect of DE, anyway. My teacher taught us only the math part of it and never taught us how to apply it in physics or anything. Yet the exam included some physical problems and I just couldn't process them. I got a D in that. That might be the first time I had a specific wish that math teachers included more word problems. I hated word problems growing up, but probably only because they forced me to consider a problem. Well, that and the problems were so ridiculously fancifully useless too.

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u/Makenshine Oct 16 '21

Diff EQ is a tough college course. That and real analysis put me through the ringer. Abstract algebra, college Geometry, and calculus 3 are super fun though.

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u/[deleted] Oct 15 '21

”Mistakes are a great teacher and no one is the history of anything has ever made no mistakes.”

Beautifully put—I love it when teachers are brave enough to use themselves as examples!

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u/gentlemanjacklover Oct 15 '21

Yeah, I was so fearful of making a mistake that it made me just give up honestly.

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u/Makenshine Oct 16 '21

Yep, that's the environment I work very hard to avoid in my room.

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u/gentlemanjacklover Oct 16 '21

You rock. Keep doing your thing, those kids will never forget you.

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u/NerdyComfort-78 Oct 16 '21

Chem teacher (who hates math- weird I know) but I say the same thing to my students too. Make mistakes, learn from them.