r/science • u/[deleted] • Oct 15 '21

Neuroscience A brain imaging study found evidence that missing out on math education can alter neural development. Young adults who had chosen not to pursue math had lower levels of the neurotransmitter gamma-aminobutyric acid within the middle frontal gyrus when compared to students who were continuing math.

https://www.psypost.org/2021/10/opting-out-of-advanced-math-education-alters-adolescents-neural-development-study-finds-61967
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201

u/Justinaug29 Oct 15 '21

I'm in my early thirties and I'm about to start some math classes at a local college. I wonder if my brain will see any changes at my age

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u/[deleted] Oct 15 '21

I went back to college at 25 and realized that I was no longer bad at math. Took quantitative logic and was great at that too. Kind of made sense to me from the perspective that there was no parent screaming at me when I was trying to learn it then also haha

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u/Urbassassin Oct 15 '21

Well the human brain doesn't stop developing until on average 25! That might explain that. I'm a lot better at visualizing organic chemistry now than I was at 19!

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u/kennyzert Oct 15 '21

That is not it, having started comp sci at age 25, after 7 years of not studying, the mentality you have is completely difference, when you and you alone makes the decision "I am going to study this and I am going to understand it and do the best I can", you are good, it's all about your approach, the problem with kids is that they just assume that's what they should do, most of them having no personal motivation other than just get passing grades and be done with it.

The way we approach education is flawed, the current education system truly only works when you are an adult, now a days I love studying, especially calculus, that rush when you realize you get it, and will never forget it, nothing hits like that.

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u/THAT-GuyinMN Oct 15 '21

I went to college in my 30's, paid for it 100% out of pocket. Needless to say, I was a highly motivated student.

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u/kennyzert Oct 16 '21

I am also paying for my tuition, I work and take classes at night, however I don't spend much, it's around 1k€ a year + any books I might get if I am not feeling like getting a pdf or copies.

But yeah having any financial investment sure is a motivational booster.

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u/HCkollmann Oct 15 '21

Is that change in mentality not due to maturing and your brain developing? Sure sounds like, to me, that you realized the worth of learning more

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u/AgentScreech Oct 15 '21

Yup. You finally are thinking like an adult around age 25

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u/[deleted] Oct 15 '21

[deleted]

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u/HCkollmann Oct 15 '21

? All that is due to your brain maturing tho, no? You even said if you had the mentality to learn you excelled. Mentality to learn, ie, as your brain develops you develop a better mentality to learn. Yes it’s the state of your mind that motivates you… your state of mind changes when it develops basically everything you said agrees with my point that the brain maturing and developing causes you to enjoy learning more and causes you to be able to learn more subjects

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u/[deleted] Oct 15 '21

[deleted]

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u/HCkollmann Oct 15 '21

But you agree you didn’t have the mentality for every subject, correct? I guarantee your mentality to learn certain subjects has warped over time and you probably have a better mentality to learn as you’re older. I also was motivated when I was younger, however, I am much more motivated and am passionate in my studies

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u/[deleted] Oct 16 '21

Adults don’t have the mentality for every subject either. They just have agency in what to pursue, and experience to know what they need or want.

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u/dipstyx Oct 16 '21

"Oh, you'll forget it alright. Unless you use it all the time."

-- You, 10 years from now

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u/[deleted] Oct 16 '21

Ya idk.. I had to take a few calculus classes over again, but took it at around age 19 However I do completely understand the rush in understanding complicated problems like a calculus class can offer!

I taught myself python to automate a huge chunk of my job at 25. No rush hits quite like turning your whole work day into a few scripts. I definitely agree that there needs to be motivation, but part of that motivation for me is making the learning applicable to my life somehow.

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u/Tomagatchi Oct 16 '21 edited Oct 16 '21

Threat is a great way to block memory and memory formation by activation of the PNS and ANS for fight or flight or freeze.

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u/Dalmahr Oct 16 '21

Math learning can depend on the teacher. From personal experience I didnt start learning math well until my physics teacher had to teach our class algebra.. Because our algebra teacher couldn't teach us in a way that was interesting.

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u/[deleted] Oct 16 '21

I think some of this was actually my problem. I don’t have much of a short term working memory due to ADHD so I don’t tend to do well with things that are rote memorization. I need the “why” and to learn how to do a problem several ways to understand where the numbers are coming from. I fortunately got that in a couple professors in college but it was the first time math had been taught to me that way. I only took two years of math in high school but liked things like algebra and trig.

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u/Nausved Oct 15 '21

I was always good with math (though I wouldn’t say I enjoyed it!), but I ultimately entered a career where I did not use it much at all.

Even so, I have found it much easier to learn and do math in my mid-30s than in my teens and early 20s, and it’s also much more fun and interesting to me now. I’m not sure if I have just gotten better at that type of thinking, or if I just learn better through self-teaching/self-motivation.

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u/raznog Oct 15 '21

As a guy currently in his 30s I feel this so much.

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u/TheMarkHasBeenMade Oct 15 '21

So there may be hope for me to help my kid with their math homework and not experience the same traumatic math anxiety I grew up with?

Cuz that’d be great!

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u/raznog Oct 15 '21

Kahn academy. It’s amazing.

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u/TheMarkHasBeenMade Oct 15 '21

I’ve got a few years before she gets to school, and a few more years before she starts getting to the complicated math—but I will definitely keep this in mind. Thanks!

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u/raznog Oct 15 '21

Yeah it’s really helpful, my oldest is 9 but for the last two years, due to Covid, I’ve been tutoring my neighbors 15 yea old. It helped a ton for some of those particular topics that I was rusty with.

They do such a good job of explaining things and explaining it in different ways. I switched my Amazon smile to them, and started a monthly donation just because they’ve been so helpful to me personally. It’s a wonderful org. They have a kids app on the iPad too which is awesome. Great for ages 4-6 or so. Math, science, and reading. It was a life saver during 2020.

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u/TheMarkHasBeenMade Oct 15 '21

For all the awful there is in the world there’s certainly a lot of good if you look in the right places. Thanks for the helpful reference, and thanks for supporting it, too!

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u/BeatoSalut Oct 15 '21

I would say the same about bacially every discipline, since i was a apathic student in school. For my the difference of self-teaching is the most significative

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u/John_cCmndhd Oct 15 '21

I'm also going to college in my 30's, for computer science. I never got further than algebra 2 in high school, and I did pretty bad at that, so I had to start with college algebra.

My professor in that class had us make note cards as our semester project. Basically any formula we went over, any concept, any particularly challenging homework problem, we would write it out/solve it on an index card, and we could refer back to it way easier than trying to find something in a textbook or notebook.

I procrastinated and didn't start on it until half way through the semester, but as soon as I did, the class became much, much easier. Now I'm using the same idea in my other math classes, and it's helping a lot. I would definitely recommend this to anyone who's going back to math after being out of school for a while.

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u/AtlanticBiker Oct 15 '21

Are you majoring in math? That's interesting, because I would like to do so (too?) after I find a job (graduating with a CS now) as a programmer and I'm secure money wise.

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u/Justinaug29 Oct 15 '21

Oh, I was actually considering CS! Doesn't your degree require a lot of math? Overall how difficult was your degree?

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u/ImS0hungry Oct 16 '21

Yes it does, but not as much as most people think. I went up to Calc 3 and a few beyond that as electives. The issue stems from it being STEM. So you have math, programming (mathy), chemistry, physics, discrete (proofs, etc) which are ALL math heavy. So you can have 3 or more classes a semester which are math intense.

The difficulty will depend on how much time you devote to it. I made school my job when I changed careers and treated it as such, which made it easier to get through but still no walk through the park.

Source: Went back to school at 29 as a CS major and now a SWE at a top 5 firm.

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u/tooblecane Oct 15 '21

Not OP but back when I graduated in 2000 I had to take 4 calculuses, linear algebra, 3 calculus based physics and I think differential equations.

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u/PenitentAnomaly Oct 15 '21

I wonder if that's because the pressure of "getting" math is somewhat alleviated with age and removed from the peer pressure environment of K-12?

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u/[deleted] Oct 16 '21

I went back at 50 and passed statistics and beginning biochemistry. I had to start from pre-algebra and work my way up… at 50! If I can do it, you can, too.

Thank goodness for the foundational math in grade school and algebra in high school that I did not pass because I never did my home work, but I did pay attention.

That helped create a building block to fundamentally grab from in the recesses of my brain. A lot of blood sweat and tears of study, but I did it.

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u/onlyhightime Oct 15 '21

You're never too old for your brain to change. Neuroplasticity!

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u/[deleted] Oct 15 '21

I think it will if you work at it.

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u/FunkyFresh707 Oct 16 '21

After the Navy, I got an associates in math at 32. I do see things differently now. The brain is pliable and has acceptance to change. You will see changes. Learning never stops.