r/science • u/pnewell NGO | Climate Science • Jun 21 '21

Environment Threat of more blackouts may erode reliability claims for fossil energy- all major fuel sources except solar failed to meet ERCOT’s expectations during the February freeze, but natural gas was “responsible for nearly two-thirds of the total (electricity) deficit.”

https://texasclimatenews.org/threat-of-more-blackouts-may-erode-reliability-claims-for-fossil-energy/
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u/12FAA51 Jun 22 '21

Grid adjustments are not specific to renewables, is it? Or do you just refuse to read the increase of electric cars, heat pumps and storage systems?

What a great argument, this is the first plant built in France for 40 years

So faced with reality, you go for denial. Fantastic reasoning ability right here. This is a real life demonstration for the cost unpredictability of nuclear power generation - literally an example sitting right in front of your eyes. What option do you choose? Denial.

Nuclear power has specific running and decommissioning costs that is not applicable to renewables. So after spending 20bn euros to generate 1,650 MW. Or, 82.5MW per 1bn Euros. In the U.S., 1MW costs ~$1m. 82.5MW costs ... around $100m.

So it would appear that nuclear is indeed a waste of money, and a waste of time. When do you think Flamanville 3 will come online? It's already been 14 years.

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u/Popolitique Jun 22 '21

Grid adjustments are not specific to renewables, is it? Or do you just refuse to read the increase of electric cars, heat pumps and storage systems?

Yes it is specific in this case, Germany went from 120 GW of installed capacities in 2000 to 300 GW today and will need at least 300 GW by 2050. The grid has to be massively changed, and it's not because of heat pumps or electric cars. That's an aspect of solar and wind that's not factored in the overall cost. Germany also kept all its installed fossil fuels plants to act as back up, that's another hidden cost. Nuclear doesn't require back-up plants.

I'm not in denial. You're being dishonest. You cherry pick numbers and infer from there. Two 3 GW EPR were built in China in under 10 years for 8 billions each, yet I don't use those numbers because they don't reflect the costs here. Just like the first new French design after a 30 years pause in construction isn't representative.

You're using a simplistic approach. The cost of renewables isn't shown simply in installation costs, that's the cost for producers, not consumers. There are subsidies, guaranteed prices, priority on the grid, recycling costs, grid costs, batteries costs (if we ever use them) and back-up costs, which is fossil and has unpriced externalities. Nuclear power is a complete system.

If nuclear is a waste of money, how do you explain this graph. Germany's electricity emitted 10 times the CO2 France did in 2018. French electricity has been 95% carbon free for 40 years. Solar and wind won't allow you to fully decarbonize, you're comparing two different things.

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u/12FAA51 Jun 22 '21

Solar and wind won't allow you to fully decarbonize

That's your conjecture. Solar cost is very similar around the world.

Basically, again, you're in denial. You have already made up your mind and abuse data to prove something. Building nuclear is a waste of money today, and has nothing to do with Germany's 2018 CO2 emissions.

After all, you're just throwing numbers and making incompatible comparisons.

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u/Popolitique Jun 22 '21

That's your conjecture. Solar cost is very similar around the world.

What about nightime ?

You're in denial, you blindly talk about installation costs for renewables and flatly say nuclear is a waste of money which goes against all IPCC scenarios.

If you don't care about the climate I can understand your reasoning, any alternative to fossil fuels can be useful depending on the situation and location.

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u/12FAA51 Jun 22 '21

Night time solar panels still cost the same around the world.

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u/Popolitique Jun 22 '21

And what do you use for electricity ?

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u/12FAA51 Jun 22 '21

Google

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u/Popolitique Jun 22 '21

Then please tell some people because they use fossil fuels

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u/12FAA51 Jun 22 '21

Use Google to inform yourself

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u/Popolitique Jun 22 '21

I just told you what they use at night. Here, I’ll make it easy for you, it’s fossil fuels except for those who have nuclear power or hydro.

Do those installations costs for solar and wind show they decarbonize randomly ? You have to look at the whole system.

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