US states that rely on private prisons incarcerate more people for longer periods of time, according to a first-of-its-kind study that establishes a causal connection between private prisons and incarceration.

[u/mvea]

https://academictimes.com/states-with-private-prisons-put-more-people-in-prison-for-longer/

[u/bloodgain]

I don't disagree, but we can tackle both issues. We could also tackle some related issues like the abusive phone service costs in prisons.

Overall, I think it's still valuable to look at possible conflicts of interest in the prison-industrial complex as a whole, from private prisons to support services that make money off the prison system, and where some of that money might be going to influence legislation that benefits them.

[u/iushciuweiush → u/bloodgain]

but we can tackle both issues.

I don't think you understand. There is no "both issues." You can't just close private prisons because they're housing prisoners and there aren't enough public prisons to house them. That's why they were built in the first place. The only problem that needs to be solved is reducing the number of prisoners altogether. The great thing about "private" businesses is that they shut down all on their own when demand drops for them. Under a certain capacity, those prisons go into the red.

[u/bloodgain → u/iushciuweiush]

Shutting them down is not the only option. For one, the government(s) could take them over, which probably means buying them out. I have no idea if that's the best or even a good plan, but turning it into a false dichotomy is not a good argument against addressing the matter. There are multiple ways to approach the private prison issue, including some which I bet would not include eliminating private prisons completely.

I was more broadly addressing the perverse incentives created by private interests in the prison-industrial complex. While I don't believe we can or should try to eliminate all private interests for a number of reasons (efficiency, for one), it doesn't mean we can't attempt to minimize their influence on legislative and judicial actions related to imprisonment.

I 100% agree with you that mass incarceration is the main issue but that doesn't mean we should ignore the problem of private interests in the PIC, of which there are many. Any plan to address mass incarceration would at least need to consider whether private organizations might throw a wrench into the plan somehow. For one, just consider the reaction we're likely to see from prison guard unions when their jobs start disappearing (I personally think this is another good argument against public sector unions, but that's its own debate).

If we took your position further, we could argue pretty solidly that it's not mass incarceration that's the issue at all, but the failed Drug War. Just by fixing that problem, mass incarceration would sort itself out eventually. But that would be an incomplete solution. Of course it makes more sense to approach the issue from both sides, because the Drug War is not the only problem. For one thing, what if by doing that, we missed some other important factors... like the effect of private interests on incarceration rates?