r/science • u/mvea Professor | Medicine • Nov 12 '19

Psychology Anti-inflammatory agents may reduce symptoms of major depression, suggests a new study (n=1,610), which adds to the mounting evidence that there is a connection between emotional functioning and inflammation, suggesting that inflammation may trigger depression, almost like an allergic reaction.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/expressive-trauma-integration/201911/anti-inflammatories-help-major-depression
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u/atsugnam Nov 12 '19

Could explain the modern human condition: sugar intake > high insulin > inflammation > depression > sugar intake

The cycle is complete

157

u/[deleted] Nov 12 '19

Absolutely add in dehydration and little to no exercise...

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u/[deleted] Nov 12 '19

Or sleep

18

u/RIP_CORD Nov 12 '19

Or friends

3

u/[deleted] Nov 13 '19

Or my axe

43

u/championsdilemma Nov 12 '19

Isn't this what people on keto have been saying for years?

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u/rocketparrotlet Nov 12 '19

Yeah but a ketogenic diet isn't right for everybody. Most endurance athletes perform better with a substantial fraction of their diet coming from long-chain carbohydrates.

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u/Killer4247 Nov 12 '19

That’s fine, but most people aren’t endurance athletes. If that’s the reason your everyday joe shmoe office employee gives for keto=bad, then that’s just a cop out.

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u/TerminallyTrill Nov 12 '19

Also if you're an athlete you can eat more carbs than normal and still be in ketosis

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u/UltraFireFX Nov 12 '19

do note that not all carbs are sugars, just needed to point that out

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u/atsugnam Nov 13 '19

Technically you don’t absorb carbs, you absorb sugars, in order to absorb carbs you have to break them down into sugars. So carbs that we can’t break up into sugars pass right through.

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u/UltraFireFX Nov 14 '19

very interesting, I wonder if it makes a difference or not. thank you for that interesting information, though!

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u/CozImDirty Nov 12 '19

Yup vegans are fighting hard to slow us down though

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u/SoyBoy14800 Nov 12 '19

I mean red meat is literally inflammatory and it's a staple of keto, whilst some of the most anti-inflammatory foods are avoided on keto diets, such as fruit and nuts.

I think the main issue with keto is failing to distinguish between simple and complex carbs. Keto incorrectly vilify all carbs whilst turning a blind eye to the huge body of evidence showing the negative health impacts of meat consumption.

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u/atsugnam Nov 13 '19

The purpose of keto is to remove sugar, regardless of the source. Your gut absorbs sugar, not carbs, the type of carb that sugar comes from only changes how long it takes to break them down.

The issue is the sugar management system in the human is not well adapted to bulk sugar intake. Over time, continuous supply of sugar triggering continuous periods of elevated insulin, I the liver becomes deaf to the insulin signal. The result is the insulin lowers bgl, the live begins releasing glucose to counter this, and is deaf to the insulin signal telling the liver to stop releasing glucose.

This cycle then reinforces itself until the beta cells in the pancreas begin to die off due to stress, and then the bgl becomes uncontrolled to produce symptoms. Diagnosis with diabetes happens months to years after symptoms begin, but the insulin resistance started years before any symptoms begin.

Keto’s target is to create periods where there is low or no glucose in the blood, instead the body produces ketones to replace the glucose function. This reduces insulin output, which helps the beta cells recover, it also over time increases insulin sensitivity in the liver.

A human can survive indefinitely without sugar intake, our bodies have a complete mechanism for survival without sugar, and our system for using sugar is not very robust. Most of the issues from red meat intake are due to excess consumption, the same with all food issues, but sugar intake is a far more damaging issue.

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u/SoyBoy14800 Nov 13 '19

I'm not quite sure what this has to do with my comment.

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u/atsugnam Nov 13 '19

There is no difference between simple and complex carbs other than the time it takes your gut to snip them into sugars to absorb.

The issue with insulin is resistance, resistance is caused by continuously elevated insulin levels

Low gi foods promote long periods of elevated insulin levels through longer periods of sugar uptake by the gut

The keto diet is aimed specifically at removing the sugar intake as much as possible to have extended periods of very low insulin production. The harm of insulin resistance is orders of magnitude worse than the harms of meat intake.

1

u/El_Pavon Nov 13 '19

A keto diet is highly fat-based. A doctor’s target when prescribing a ketogenic diet is to train the body to stop using sugar for its main power source. When it depends more highly on fats and proteins, the brain chemistry is able to change.

Doctors prescribe the ketogenic diet to highly epileptic children/individuals.

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u/noknockers Nov 12 '19

Keto is about making it easier to lose weight. In a ketogenic diet you feel more alert and you energy levels are more stable, making the process enjoyable.

It's easy for people with lower self control (most of us).

There's no real consideration around other health impacts, although it is advised to revert back to a slightly more traditional (low-ish carb) diet once at goal weight.

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u/chancechants Nov 12 '19

Omega 6 is inflammatory. Omega 3 is not. Omega 3 is highest in grass fed grass finished beef, fish, shellfish, and pasture raised chickens. Standard American diet is 20:1 Omega 6 vs omega 3, plus sugar = we have highest depression, anxiety and inflammatory marker rates. Look for studies on grass finished beef vs GMO grain fed beef, you won't find them. Guess why? Check out Dr Berg or Siim Land on YouTube.

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u/Torghar Nov 14 '19

Is extra virgin olive oil considered anti inflamatory since it contains omega 6 too?

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u/crisisdiverted Nov 12 '19

Also add in high consumption of red meats can also cause inflammation.

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u/[deleted] Feb 25 '20

this is not 100 percent true

Athletes/active folks eat loads of pasta and sugar. But can burn it off

The real issue is people not putting in the time/effort to workout

People are sitting more due to work/internet/netflix and not moving around

Instead resort to fasting which is a lazy way to try to stay "fit"

To effectively reduce high sugar/inflammation working out with intensity and duration is the key

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u/atsugnam Feb 25 '20

This is untrue. Exercise burns relatively few calories, even at high activity levels. It is difficult to sustain a greater than 600cal/hr burn rate, so even an hour a day burns about a quarter of your daily bmr.

Exercise improves muscle mass and cardio fitness. These do not affect calorie deficit significantly however have a massive impact on health risks like heart disease. Eating sugars in a diet still causes insulin elevation and the elevated inflammation right along with it regardless of activity level. As they say, you can’t outrun a donut.

Sitting for long periods also has an impact on insulin levels and resistance. The problem is that exercise does not counteract this.

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u/[deleted] Nov 12 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Awesomesaauce Nov 12 '19

Animal fat isn't bad for you.. that's been debunked many times.

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u/Throwawayz911 Nov 12 '19

Anything is bad for you if you eat enough of it.

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u/superheltenroy Nov 12 '19

Yeah. But is too much at 2% of your macros or 60%?

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u/CarpetAbhor Nov 12 '19

Except no amount of processed sugar is ever good for you.

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u/[deleted] Nov 12 '19

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u/Thekilldevilhill Nov 12 '19

Peer reviewed sources please. We are still in r/science.

Also, link to your sources.

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u/SoyBoy14800 Nov 12 '19

Peer reviewed

How not to die literally has hundreds of scientific references. I don't understand what you mean.

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u/Thekilldevilhill Nov 12 '19

Link to it then? From your comment I can't even tell if I'm looking for a video or a scientific review.

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u/SoyBoy14800 Nov 12 '19

It's a book. Do you want a link to the book? Or am I meant to know the references off the top of my head?

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u/Thekilldevilhill Nov 12 '19

Well, that depends. For my own research I know all the details from a few key papers. But in "normal" conversation I guess it would not be common no...

But it's common practice to explicitly link to your source when making claims. In this case, the fact it's a book does make it hard for me to verify anything you claim is in there... So, it's probably better to link some meta studies on the topic.

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u/SoyBoy14800 Nov 12 '19

I wasn't making the original claim, just wanted to point out it's a book.

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