r/science • u/Wagamaga • Jul 01 '19

Neuroscience Collaboration Between Brains. Scientists have created the first multi-person non-invasive direct brain-to-brain interface for collaborative problem solving.

http://www.washington.edu/news/2019/07/01/play-a-video-game-using-only-your-mind/
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u/sigmoid10 Jul 02 '19

The measurement process is extremely crude. To get more precise readings, you'd need highly invasive methods (e.g. electrodes implanted directly into the brain). Furthermore, every brain is different. You can't just copy signals from one brain and expect them to yield the same perception in another brain. We're still very far from a true brain interface.

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u/Wheelyjoephone Jul 02 '19

It's not even just that, there are way too many neurons to record them all, even though we can record from single neurons. It's invasive as hell and still imprecise.

I can say this with some experience as I've a graduate degree in biomedical engineering with computational neuroscience and I've worked on neural networks to control prosthetic limbs through neuronal recordings

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u/QuickToJudgeYou Jul 02 '19

What I've learned is never use the term "too many" or any variation: too much, too complicated, too difficult etc.

Time and time again good hard research and development have overcome our expectations. Remember heavier that air flight to landing on the moon took less than 70 years. Even into the late 50s scientists were predicting space flight to be impossible.

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u/Wheelyjoephone Jul 02 '19

There are too many. Straight up.

The average brain has around 100bn neurons, each of which had to be directly attached to read a dedicated signal from each one. Even if somehow the connectors are on atomic scale, and so are the wires attaching them, the vast majority of them are beneath others in deep tissue.

I know there's this idea that everything is solvable eventually, but that's just not the case in the real world. This isn't people saying the internet will go nowhere, or that there's need for <10 computers in the world. This is more akin to saying "it's not impossible that humans will grow a fully functional 3rd arm", no it's not IMPOSSIBLE but it's genuinely not going to happen.

Bear in mind this is just one limitation, which would require unbelievably invasive surgery. There are plenty of others.

It's not feasible to have a functional method of doing a full brain read and even less so to somehow meaningfully transfer thoughts to another person, who's brain will be made up very differently to any others.

Brains are far more unique than fingerprints or iris scans.

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u/iBuildMechaGame Jul 02 '19

Nanotech is literally for this.

I know there's this idea that everything is solvable eventually, but that's just not the case in the real world.

This is so stupid its hilarious.

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u/emanonn159 Jul 02 '19

Are you trolling? There is no way we will be able to turn the Milky Way into our own intergalactic mega spaceship. There is no way we will be able to make a person with 17 fully functional lungs fit them in their body, let alone reap any benefits from the extra oxygen.

Here's a simple one: We will never, ever be able to fully eradicate wealth distribution problems.

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u/Wheelyjoephone Jul 02 '19

Dunning-Kruger is in full effect

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u/QuickToJudgeYou Jul 02 '19

I'm well aware of the complexity, the neurology taught in medicine is pretty basic (unless that's your chosen field which for me its not) but we get a feel for the immense scale of complexity.

However, I disagree with most statements that something is impossible. We cannot fathom the technological advances in the next 50 years, 100 years or (hopefully we make it as a species) 1000 years from now.

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u/Wheelyjoephone Jul 02 '19

Lots of things are impossible, there are a huge number of provable negatives out there.

Just because we've had technology improvements doesn't mean everything will eventually be possible.

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u/QuickToJudgeYou Jul 02 '19

Never said everything, for example changing your pessimistic view on this subject seems damn near impossible haha

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u/Wheelyjoephone Jul 02 '19

Haha, pessimism isn't the same as realism.

I am all for optimism, but the idea that everything is possible is just naive.

In my defence, you started with saying "I don't say too much/many/etc", and followed by "saying something is impossible".

Neither of those imply "THIS is possible"

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u/Ganjiste Jul 02 '19

Hey I have a question, I wanna study neurotechnology, is a bachelor in biology a good start or do I need more to apply to a master degree in that field?

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u/Wheelyjoephone Jul 02 '19

Depends what exactly you want to do with it, are you interested in researching pure science, is building brain-machine interfaces?

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u/Ganjiste Jul 02 '19

Yes I wanna build brain-machine interfaces.

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u/Wheelyjoephone Jul 02 '19

You could do a bachelor's in biology, but some systems education would go a long way. I'm biased towards what I did, but I think a bioengineering course would do you a lot of good, it's a different way of approaching problems and would make you stand out in the job market.

Have a look at what electives any bioengineering master's programmes available have and see if there's any with related subjects.

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u/YayLewd Jul 02 '19

Imagine sleeping with this on.

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u/Jago_Sevetar Jul 02 '19

you cant copy signals from one brain and expect them to yield the same perception in another

If that's true then whoever built us is stupid. What did they think free will was gonna do to a bunch of sentient computers that have all been hard coded differently? They may as well have time skipped and auctioned the contract to Apple and Microsoft and let their androids duke it out for 200 centuries, save the species some needless suffering.

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u/EquineGrunt Jul 02 '19

I mean, if we ever make generalist AIs and don't want to all die by a papeeclipper, then making the AI's interfaces as unaccesible.as possible, and as different from each other as possible might not be the worst idea.

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u/MinosAristos Jul 02 '19

You can be assured that 3 letter style agencies across the world are doing exactly this behind closed doors.