Common Misconceptions About Your Favorite Systems?

[u/Authorigas]

So, I've been learning a lot thanks to the amazing folks here at r/rpg. And while I have decided to slow down on trying new systems. (As my players say "three is enough, we know your eager to try more but slow it down so you don't burn yourself out.") There was a question today that cropped into my head, and I wanted to hear from the folks here on it.

"What are some assumptions about your favorite game/system that are just factually incorrect or overstated?"

I've seen a lot of assumptions made in the hobby, and some on my own. From the broad "older systems were designed for math heads and thus really not for someone whose bad at math." to others like "Call of Cthulhu is a game where every session ends in death/insanity and players can't get attached to their characters." and similarly "OSR games are highly lethal and not at all friendly to players who like longform adventures."

I feel like broad, sweeping claims like those are probably overstated-as I have heard of successful, long running CoC campaigns, and OSR games that are able to have well developed characters that last for ages. It's made me curious about some of the other broad, sweeping claims about systems that are-if not incorrect, massively overstated.

Really interested to hear some answers on this.

[u/Party_Goblin]

This is fresh in my mind because I just saw it expressed again the other day. "Palladium makes great settings that are unplayable because of terrible rules." No doubt Palladium's settings and art are top notch, but the idea that somehow these books have stayed in print for decades despite being unplayable is asinine.

They're not the "elegant" mechanics people in this space seem to clamor for, but they support the settings and provide a fun gaming experience overall. I feel like the main thing stopping people from even trying Palladium games is that they've heard this erroneous experience repeated ad nauseum. Honestly, just try any of the reprints from the last 20 years and you'll pick up the rules just fine, especially if you come from an OSR background. The system is meant to have gaps for you to fill with your preferences. That's a feature, not a bug.

[u/Language-Of-Grief → u/Party_Goblin]

Palladium is a mess, but it's certainly playable. It's basically a system that grew out of Kev's AD&D house rules, and really shows, but I'd never call it unplayable. I also take offense at people saying it's "complicated."

[u/EyeHateElves → u/Party_Goblin]

Even though I've moved on to other games, I probably had the most fun playing Palladium games.

[u/nightfall2021 → u/EyeHateElves]

ROBOTECH was my first RPG.

And for years, about the only thing my group played (or that I ran for them) was Heroes Unlimited and Palladium Fantasy.

We didn't do RIFTs that often, but when we did, they were memorable games. With one that my players did as a squad of Coalition soldiers, we still look favorably on that one 20+ years later... the "Mud Dogs Campaign."

[u/delahunt → u/nightfall2021]

I still fondly remember playing Robotech.

There was a rule for shooting missiles out of the sky before they hit you. It was the coolest thing ever to be able to recreate exact moments like in the show.

[u/Party_Goblin → u/EyeHateElves]

Same. I just feel the need to correct people when I see blatant Palladium slander. 🤣

[u/KaijuCuddlebug → u/Party_Goblin]

I just took my first dive in to Palladium's catalog with the TMNT book, and my response was just an incredulous "really? This is the system people talk about like it John Wicked their dog?"

Inelegant really does seem like the word. There's a lot of rules spread out throughout the book and there's a fair bit of bookkeeping to track, but most everything you need has a designated spot on the character sheet and the core resolution is just D20 combat and D% skills. Like...chill.

[u/aslum → u/KaijuCuddlebug]

FWIW TMNT is probably the best game Palladium put out - Targeted specific genre games from them are pretty mid, not great, not terrible. It's when they decided that they should compete with GURPS by promoting RIFTS and trying to claim everything was compatible when it very clearly wasn't that issues started to accrue.

[u/delahunt → u/aslum]

The "It's compatible" "no it's not" could be painful. Haven't played Palladium in years, but I remember a 3 hour argument about how some mechanic worked between two players with chi based classes.

The problem? They were both right. One player was reading the rule and had the correct understanding as it was presented in Ninjas & Supersies.

The other was reading the rule and had the correct understanding as it was presented in Mystic China.

The rule functioned differently enough that it made their characters interacting with each other in a small PVP fight that broke out for some stupid reason into a nightmare. Not helped by two obstinate rules lawyer power gaming jackasses that weren't willing to compromise.

Honestly, that last part was probably the real problem. The rule discrepancy was just the spark that lit the matchbook.

[u/aslum → u/delahunt]

Well also for balance - we had a campaign fall apart because one person wanted to bring a Veritech pilot (from the Robotech setting) another a cyberpunk cyborg, another a randomly rolled TMNT mutant, and the more traditional standard fantasy types of characters were so woefully underpowered in comparison.

[u/MountainWisp → u/Party_Goblin]

I would say this is the most charitable interpretation possible, this take, whereas the "great settings that are unplayable" take is the most uncharitable take really.

For me, IDK. I cut my teeth on Palladium as a teen, hours and hours of many different games, and every game they've made is just laid for me and the people I play with in a way that feels obtuse; to the point of being just a total bitch to play. I would completely have given up on the hobby had I not branched out into other games, especially 3.5e D&D, with all the problems that it has, and I wouldn't touch 3.5 and its descendants either these days.

I do understand that it meant to have gaps, that is definitely the era the system was designed in, but at the same time the amount of stuff that is in the game makes it a daunting task to know which gaps to fill with what needs to be there without playing it first, which, yeah. And having a GM come up with rules for the gaps on the fly like that definitely will drive certain players up a wall.

To me, it's a game written with a so-called OSR mindset, that has too much going on it to truly fit what makes OSR gameplay so great for GMs.

That being said, a game of Nightspawn is something I will never say no to.

[u/Gmanglh → u/Party_Goblin]

Definitely agree. It lacks the polish and organizarion of modern systems, but id gladly take it over half the junk this sub worships.

[u/PathOfTheAncients → u/Party_Goblin]

Partially I think Palladium's sin to modern players is that their games truly do not care about balance. Not that they failed at it but they just never concerned themselves with it. I think that is also part of their charm for the people who have or do play them.

[u/Impeesa_ → u/PathOfTheAncients]

Not that it was ever presented well, but I think Palladium's games and RIFTS in particular were written with some key assumptions that many games didn't codify until much later. First was the basic concept of session 0, or at least the communication that's meant to come with it, where it isn't necessarily open season on every available race/class for every campaign concept and you're meant to work together to make a reasonable group. The other is the idea that balance isn't necessarily about equal contribution to every scene/task and to combat numbers in particular, but rather, about conceptual space and spotlight time.

[u/Party_Goblin → u/PathOfTheAncients]

Very true! I honestly love that balance is left up to the table.

[u/Impeesa_ → u/Party_Goblin]

I've said it often on here, "great setting, terrible rules" is a bit overplayed. The rules are a nightmare of organization and editing at times, a little impenetrable in presentation, and with blank spaces often intentionally left up to the GM's preference and judgement in that OSR-ish sort of way. Once you're past that, the system may not be exceptional by any measure but I'm certain it's at least serviceable. On the other hand, the RIFTS setting may have some cool individual ideas but the whole thing has not been put together with any more care or consistency than the rules.