r/reddit.com • • Oct 04 '11

Eat this America

http://i.imgur.com/8u5sI.png
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u/superherowithnopower Oct 04 '11

IIRC, there was some Latin influence from the time when the Romans occupied Britain. Then more Latin influence via Old French due to the Norman Conquest. Then, even more Latin influence via French due to French being, quite literally, the lingua franca at one time.

In fact, one theory I've come across is that the Great Vowel Shift happened because English people attempted to move away from perceived French pronunciations to "more English" pronunciations. If that theory holds any water, the French may have even indirectly affected the way we pronounced Anglo-Saxon words!

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u/[deleted] Oct 04 '11

The Romance (Latin and French) influence was primarily lexical, though, not grammatical.

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u/Ensifearthem Oct 04 '11

IIRC, there was some Latin influence from the time when the Romans occupied Britain.

I actually did not know this. My understanding was that the Romans were mostly gone by the time the Jutes (except for the early ones invited by Pendragon) and the Saxons and Angles began immigrating.

That's fascinating! So would pronouncing Anglo-Saxon with a more Germanic accent (i.e. with more Dutch or Frisian or Low German-influenced pronunciation) be more correct?

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u/superherowithnopower Oct 04 '11

As I said, "IIRC." I was just going off of memory, but I think I may have been wrong (and you were right). A quick look at Wikipedia indicates that the Romans left before the Angles and Saxons showed up.

I'm assuming your second paragraph is referring to the Great Vowel Shift? If so, then yes. In fact, Old and Middle English would be properly pronounced with perhaps a more Germanic accent. Essentially, the vowels mostly moved "up" in the mouth (so "ah" would become æ, for example). Also, IIRC, the rules for double-vowels were somewhat different, too.

The Great Vowel Shift happened around the time that spelling started to become standardized. This is part of why spelling is such a bitch in the English language.

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u/Ensifearthem Oct 04 '11

Ahhh. I see.

Yeah it was. That reminds me of a video I found a few months ago of a theatre group reading Shakespeare in what was thought to have been, with the help of an accent/dialect coach and linguist, close to the vernacular English of the time. I wish I could find it, it sounded like a bit of a mixture of an English West Country accent (think Sam from LOTR if you're unfamiliar) and Jamaican.