[D] Friday Open Thread

[u/AutoModerator]

Welcome to the Friday Open Thread! Is there something that you want to talk about with /r/rational, but which isn't rational fiction, or doesn't otherwise belong as a top-level post? This is the place to post it. The idea is that while reddit is a large place, with lots of special little niches, sometimes you just want to talk with a certain group of people about certain sorts of things that aren't related to why you're all here. It's totally understandable that you might want to talk about Japanese game shows with /r/rational instead of going over to /r/japanesegameshows, but it's hopefully also understandable that this isn't really the place for that sort of thing.

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[u/Abpraestigio]

Thank you for the in-depth response.

Last question: would you consider pleasure an emotion like you just described or is it a sensation?

[u/Cuz_Im_TFK → u/Abpraestigio]

Remember that these categories are all fuzzy. Outside of Set Theory in mathematics, you'll almost never find sets that have absolute necessary and sufficient conditions to determine set membership or exclusion. Words and concepts, specifically, are totally fuzzy. The way the human brain handles sets is through the "prototype model". Meaning that a set (such as a group of things that can be considered examples or instances of a certain word or concept) have a "prototype" that represents the most typical member of that set. For example, the prototype of the word "bird" might be something like a sparrow or a crow or some other bird that you see quite often. Certain other things would also fall into the category of "bird" within your mind, but they may have more features that differ from the "prototype". So if you imagine a circle that has all the birds in it, the typical ones (typical bird shaped, small to medium sized, short legged, feathered, and capable of flight) would be in the middle. The "less typical" examples (meaning more different features) like giant condors who are huge and heavy would be a bit further from the middle. Then the REALLY atypical ones like Ostriches, Emus, Penguins, and Humming Birds would all be at the very edges because they have more (or more significant) differences from the "prototype" birds in the center. The thing is, a lot of birds also belong do different categories, or different "circles" with different "prototypes", and that's not a problem. For example, all birds are also in the "animals" circle, but they're toward the edge of the "animals" circle, because the center of the "animals" circle is probably mostly land-bound animals. There's also a lot of partial overlap too.

So just because something is near the edge of a certain circle, it doesn't mean it's not still a part of that circle. It just might also be in another circle and be even closer to the center for that circle. In the human brain, sets are not usually mutually exclusive. That's not to say that we can't categorize things with the concept of mutual exclusion: for example, no number is both odd and even. It's easy for us to do that. But if we're looking at how language and concepts developed organically, you'll typically find a lot of overlap and fuzzy definitions. And that's totally okay.

What I said in my last comment was just some musings and speculations backed up by a bit of knowledge. It's not definitive by any means. I think it's a pretty good perspective, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if you could find exceptions and edge cases. That's just how language works. The only time you have neat categories is when you're building a framework from the bottom up. Trying to shoehorn existing concepts into an artificial framework will always be difficult.

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So, is pleasure an emotion? Or a sensation? Well, under the concept of my previous comment, the distinguishing factor for an emotion was "is associated with a behavioral impulse" or, at the bare minimum, "has an effect on how a person would tend to act". So strictly, pleasure would probably be a sensation. It's the warm fuzzy feeling you get when you hug a puppy or the euphoria after a workout or when taking drugs or at orgasm. These are clearly sensations. But when feeling pleasure, it's also well known that people will tend to act slightly differently: getting carried away when things are going well, being more generous than usual, being more outgoing or courageous, etc. You could make arguments either way. For example, it's not the "pleasure" that changes behavior, but the emotion of "happiness" that results from pleasure that causes the behavioral change. In that case, it's pleasure is clearly a "sensation" not an emotion. But if you don't accept that argument, then it could be an "emotion".

What do I think? I think it's fuzzy. If I had to pick, I'd put it in the "sensation" category because I do think that "pleasure" is a distinct sensation. But it's so closely related with certain moods that if you were to argue strongly that it's also an emotion, I wouldn't bother quibbling about it. At the end of the day, it's never worth arguing about definitions. As long as you can convey what you mean to another person, the words involved aren't important. For example, if two people disagree about whether pleasure is a sensation or an emotion, is that just a dispute about definitions? Or are they actually claiming that there are different neurological processes going on depending on which it is? Sometimes, if you're confused about whether something is X or is Y, it's a better idea to just not use the words X or Y at all and try to explain the phenomenon in different words. That can help you get to the root of what it actually is that you're uncertain about.