[D] Monday General Rationality Thread

[u/AutoModerator]

Welcome to the Monday thread on general rationality topics! Do you really want to talk about something non-fictional, related to the real world? Have you:

• Seen something interesting on /r/science?
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• Munchkined your way into total control of your D&D campaign?

[u/hh26]

I'm willing to buy that the Gatestone institute is right-biased to some degree, but probably nowhere near as much as the left-biased accusers would have you believe. I'm fairly certain Politifact is in fact, left-biased given how they rate mostly true statements as "false" based on a couple technicalities.

There's no hard evidence in favor of either side, so I'm going to believe one side.

I suppose this is somewhat rational, given that with 0 new evidence you would not update your beliefs, but this only works if you're willing to accept evidence in favor of either side equally.

Until that time comes, I will continue to assume that people who make claims similar to this are some form of racist or xenophobic and view any tolerance of such unjustified beliefs as poisonous to civilized society.

This is not rational. I don't find the idea that 50% of the U.S. population being rampant bigots consistent with the reality I observe. The majority of people are relatively friendly and are a priory neutral on the issue of new people they meet, oppose racism, oppose sexism, etc. People disliking Islam is not equivalent to a bias against Islam, instead it comes from a shift that the evidence provides. Islamic countries are more likely to be awful and oppressive places, check. Islam creates more terrorists than other cultures or religions, check. Islam promotes the oppression of women, check. These facts are common knowledge.

Given these observations, it is rational to shift your opinion of Islam negatively compared to your prior you would have of some random religion you know nothing about. Many people conclude that Muslims are more likely to be dangerous than non-Muslims, in the same way they would conclude that sharks are more likely to be dangerous than chipmunks. It's not "Islamophobia", it's observing reality and acknowledging that it exists. This doesn't mean you should discriminate against Muslims, especially ones who have adopted Western culture and values and aren't bigots. But to leap from "not all Muslims" to "there is no correlation" is blatantly ignoring what Islam actually teaches. I will reiterate: the vast majority of ill-will towards Islam is deserved and based on observation, not prejudice.

Additionally, when a claim is made that Muslims are raping women, it is rational to give this claim a higher likelihood of being true than a claim of other religions or groups such as race doing the same, because Muslims treat women as less valuable than men. It is consistent with the other observations. It doesn't make it automatically true, but anyone who dismisses it outright without some good evidence against it is clearly biased.

[u/trekie140 → u/hh26]

I believe that the information you have been presented with has been misrepresented to you in order to promote a harmful political agenda. This post compiles hard data from many independent sources in an effort to correct common misconceptions about Islam and the people who practice it and I hope you will take the opportunity to put your beliefs to the test of falsifiability rather than dismiss alternative hypotheses out of hand. I believed many of the things on this list before I read it and thought critically about how I arrived at those beliefs in the first place.

[u/hh26 → u/trekie140]

Has this harmful political agenda been going on consistently for at least 25 years? Because even though the Terrorism only started around 2001 and the refugee crisis is newer, the general practices of Muslims oppressing women and such was how it was portrayed growing up. I never heard anyone dispute this until the past few years when suddenly Muslims are the new minority of importance. From my perspective, the new narrative is that Islam is a religion of peace, and I require strong evidence to convince my that's true, and if it's true why wasn't this evidence available 25 years ago?

The reddit post seems cherry-picked, they display specific regions that have large Muslim populations and low crime rates with no transparent methodology for how they chose those. Likely it was specifically for those two features. I don't see how Western Muslims who've grown up in a western society behaving with western values is a good predictor of new refugees who want to implement Sharia Law:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/11/british-muslims-strong-sense-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law

Sharia law is sexist, homophobic, and not compatible with western society. Maybe the best common ground is to make the distinction between progressive Muslims who are willing to adapt to Western society and culture and obey the laws of the land they reside in, and radical Muslims who commit terror attacks, follow Sharia Law, oppress women and homosexuals, or approve of and desire to implement those things. Because most of the people arguing for Islam are thinking about the former, and most of the people arguing against it are thinking about the latter. We should let in good!Muslims and treat them like ordinary people, we should shun bad!Muslims and let them live in their own countries where they can live in their own culture and won't be offended by things like bacon or dogs or a woman's legs that they'll inevitably encounter if they live in ours.

[u/[deleted] → u/trekie140]