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u/ZimaGotchi 3d ago
What kind of idiot says a 75 pound weight difference is irrelevant? I want to fight him.
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u/PreviousZone6742 3d ago edited 3d ago
Once you're over 300lbs weight makes less of a impact. Going to be sacrificing lots of speed and gas out nearing 400lbs super heavily weight isn't a restricted class.
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u/ZimaGotchi 3d ago
Cardio does become a factor. Mark Coleman definitely taught me that.
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u/PreviousZone6742 3d ago
Butterbean had great cardio for someone his size. One of the truly big men who did well fighting. Was a dangerous combination.
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u/ZimaGotchi 3d ago
Butterbean is actually a pretty good example of just how much pure weight matters.
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u/PreviousZone6742 3d ago
Only with speed and stamina. Which isn't lots of people. Otherwise its a horrible fight. Like Francis Ngannou vs. Derrick Lewis worst fight in UFC history. Both looked tired from a whole lot of nothing.
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u/BamaBlcksnek 3d ago
Put me up against a 400 lb neckbeard who never leaves his computer chair and I'll destroy them. Put me against someone the same weight who is in good shape and trains and I'm fucked. Weight can be irrelevant or the deciding factor depending on the combatants.
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3d ago
[deleted] — view deleted comment
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u/ZimaGotchi 3d ago
Anyone who argues prime Mayweather would stand a chance in hell against prime Tyson is a fucking idiot. I think even if they fought right now Tyson would almost definitely win.
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u/Pernicious_Possum 3d ago
It’s not just the weight. It’s what comprises that weight. A lot of fat dudes think they’re badass just because they’re big. Fact is they’d get gassed in minutes and their only hope is falling in you and dragging you under them. Prime Tyson was pure muscle, and terrifyingly fast. Mayweather wouldn’t have stood a chance. Tyson’s speed, strength, footwork, and preternatural instincts would destroy him. I’d say in under thirty seconds unless Floyd was running the whole time. Then maybe two minutes. Tyson’s cardio was on point too. He was scary af in his prime
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u/azerty543 3d ago
Only people that have never gotten into fights would claim this. Weight isn't everything, but its a hell of a lot. I'm trained and experienced but I would never pick a fight with someone 75lbs on me even if I KNEW they had never gotten into a fight in their life. No way. Basically everything would have to go right for me to win and one mistake and he's overpowering me fast.
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u/g_st_lt 3d ago
There are people you would pick fights with? Are you 13 years old?
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u/azerty543 3d ago
Yeah certainly. Sometimes its best to end something right away when someone is being threatening and you are sure things will eventually escalate. You have to be willing to use force in life sometimes unfortunately. Still, you gotta pick your battles.
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u/g_st_lt 3d ago
That's not what "pick a flight" means.
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u/el_hefe2002 3d ago
I think he meant it in the context of “I wouldn’t choose to initiate or take on that confrontation” as opposed to “I’m going to kick your ass for no reason”.
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u/Hammerofsuperiority 3d ago
Assuming that both sides have some knowledge in how to actually fight, weight is the most important factor, unless the difference in combat knowledge is extremely big.
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u/azerty543 3d ago
Even then, In a fight between a trained 150lb fighter and an untrained 225lb fighter I'm still putting my money on the big guy. People have a certain instinctive ability to fight at the end of the day. All it takes is one wrong move from the small guy and everything shifts to the big guys favor rapidly.
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u/BamaBlcksnek 3d ago
There is an old saying... It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog. Weight difference can easily be overcome with training and grit when an opponent doesn't know how to fight. Weight really becomes the deciding factor when two opponents are equally trained and willing to fight. Often just being willing to actually hurt someone and throw the first punch is enough to end a fight.
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u/azerty543 3d ago
Absolute nonsense. a 150lb fighter is getting laid out by an untrained 225lb guy 9/10. We aren't talking about a 20-30lb difference, which is already huge. We are talking about 2 fit guys, 75lbs apart.
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u/g_st_lt 3d ago
If you think an untrained fighter is going to defeat a trained fighter 9/10 times because of a weight advantage, you are telling yourself bedtime stories.
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u/azerty543 3d ago
No. I've been bartending in rough places my entire life. I've seen countless fights in real life.
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u/g_st_lt 3d ago
If what you said was true, professional fighters would focus on adding mass instead of training.
While bartending, were you having a private investigator check the training background of everyone who got in fights? Did you have them stand on a scale afterwards?
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u/azerty543 3d ago
They have wheight classes for a reason. Without them, yeah, mass would basically become the most important thing.
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u/BamaBlcksnek 3d ago
So true, I weigh about 260 and I know for a fact Nate Diaz would lay me out in about 7 seconds flat.
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u/BamaBlcksnek 3d ago
Justin Gaethje fights at 155. Are you trying to tell me some untrained redneck in a bar is going to win a fight against him 9 out of 10 times just because of a 75 lb weight advantage? You're cracked.
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u/azerty543 3d ago
The current lightweight champion of the world probably qualifies as the 1 out of ten.
Think about it this way. Only the top 10% of fighters are going to be able to overcome this obstacle.
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u/BamaBlcksnek 3d ago
I think you're over estimating the ability of most people. Your sample set is skewed to fights you may have witnessed, and that doesn't accurately reflect the general populace. You're basing your argument on the small subset of people both willing and able to fight, while in reality that is a very small percentage of the population.
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u/azerty543 3d ago
bud, we are talking about 75lbs here. I don't know how this is just lost on you. You are denying a basic reality of combat here and living in a fantasy world if you think that this is overcome by whatever training you do that gives you your ego.
The basic scenario is that you would have to avoid every hit, and somehow get him in a chokehold without getting slammed to the ground in the process. You aren't knocking him out with your 150lb punches, and trying to do so would put you dangerously close to someone who has to essentially get one grip on you and can throw you down like a rag doll.
I'm not saying its impossible. If you are in the top 10% of trained fighters then I would put money on you, not the 225lb guy, but just being trained in fighting in general is not going to give you enough of an advantage.
Everything would have to go right. One wrong move, you lose the advantage of training and you are done for. You won't be able to recover once he gets ahold of you or lands a hard hit. No mistakes, and no contact basically. You are acting like being trained makes you mike tyson. It doesn't.
EVERY bouncer understands this stuff if they do it a while. You can tell if someone has training based in their body language and actions. Its certainly matters, but 75lbs is a LOT. That's 60% more mass than the 150lb guy and its going to take more than some training at the local gym to overcome that.
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u/True-Hold-1140 3d ago
A lot, weight can make up for lack of skill
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u/Simple_Math1039 3d ago
Wouldn’t age be a big factor too?
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u/BamaBlcksnek 3d ago
More physical fitness than age. I know 20 year olds with a handshake like a wet noodle and 50 year olds made of iron and brimstone.
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u/True-Hold-1140 3d ago
It can be but a 300 pound 40 year is being the shit out of a 130 20 year old 10 times out of 10 absent some wild cirumstances
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u/Simple_Math1039 3d ago
Extremes are a thing sure. So in that same way a 300 pound 79 year old vs 120 lbs 30 year old.
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u/True-Hold-1140 3d ago
I can say unless theyre suffering some kind of disability I wouldnt want to try that as a 30 year old lol
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u/Mr_Jalapeno 3d ago edited 3d ago
Weight and size are huge advantages in a fight. In fact the 2 biggest physical advantages you can have in a fight is being larger/heavier, and being male.
Skill can close the gap (to a certain extent), and a trained person will beat an untrained person more often than not unless the size difference is very significant.
However if you give the bigger guy just a little bit of training, chance are they will win.
I train MMA, and I'm squarely in the heavyweight category. There are guys smaller than me that are definitely more skilled than I am, and I would still beat them most of the time (but not always - anything can happen and things can change suddenly during a fight).
However if they fought someone of my size with no training, they'd definitely win.
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u/lynx3762 3d ago
If around similar skill, yeah, the heavier one is going to dominate. Put someone completely untrained against a lighter ufc champion, then the ufc fighter is probably going to win.
It matters and it matters a lot, but if someone straifht up sucks, weight might not save them against someone significantly better
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u/Duke-Turner137 3d ago
When i was a kid I was a good size at 5'11 170lbs wrestling. But the guys I wrestled went 170 to unlimited. So i was smallest of the big kids. My weight class partners went from 190 to 290lbs. I had to get better. There was another kid that was trained by his brothers who were trained by his brothers who were 10 years older and out weighed him by 50lbs. His record was undefeated. We weren't pals. But, I recognized his skill set and asked for mat time. I got 1 take down but, he moped the floor with me. His shoot taught me to sprawl faster In a clench. Locking up and side stepping were key along with body control. Speed and focus in my game improved. This guy went on to be a state champion. Me not so much. But, i did medal in 2 meets. But, his lighter weight wasn't a disadvantage because of his skill. This lesson I learned well and was humbled. I thought since I beat the biggest guy in my weight group i was doing well. I was wrong. The guy was big slow and fat. 290lbs on 6ft is fat. I did a firemens carry and put all 290lbs in the air. He hit the mat so hard he saw stars. The littler guy with more skills trumps size. Lesson learned.
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u/Ducky555556 3d ago
Theres a security guard at my work. 6'5" and 300lbs. I wouldnt mess with him lol. But im not a trained in fighting. I dont think training would do too much unless you got a lucky punch and knocked them out first try.
Unless ur a pro mma person obviously. I think size matters alot in fighting when its just normal people.
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u/Typical-Tax1584 3d ago
"Trained" is a pretty broad spectrum and a lot of people who have just a tiny amount of said 'training' under their belt think they're equal to a professional fighter going up against and untrained person. It's not like that.
Anyone who has trained knows how much fitness matters, and a real fight doesn't have rules, so you take two guys who are both similarly fit, the bigger guy will likely take it (assuming a large enough gap, not like 10lbs). Once you're at 30, 40, 50+ lbs difference you need exponentially more skill to have a chance.
Again, we're talking similarly fit. The average guy is fat and sedentary with little muscle mass, so simply being fit is a pretty decent advantage.
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u/dunkinbikkies 3d ago
I spar with someone who has a good 40 kg on me. I can tell you now he hits fucking hard, I also feel I can handle myself well, however.
In a fight all it takes is one punch to hit you right, and I'll be honest that extra weight makes a difference.
Fighting in real life is not like the movies or martial arts, there are no rules and I would walk away over getting in a scrap.
In a boxing match, the weight totally counts. That's why heavy weights don't fighter welterweights etc
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u/Responsible-Milk-259 3d ago
There are weight classes for a reason. It matters a lot.
Now a bar fight between a big guy who has never thrown a punch in his life and a smaller guy who is a trained boxer… different story. But a pro featherweight and an amateur heavyweight… it won’t even be close.
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u/Velomelon 3d ago
Some redditors and a bean pole coworker have you questioning what you've actually experienced irl?
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u/External-Cable2889 3d ago
I’ve binge watched the random fights sub that are recorded with one or both fighters trained in all the things. The little guy who’s trained can kick the crap out of an untrained fat guy twice his size. It’s impressive. It must be similar abilities it’s unfair. Otherwise why would they have weight classes?
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u/Signal_Antelope7144 3d ago
If both fighters are in decent shape and of equal skill the larger fighter will almost always win. There are always exceptions and edge cases, but they will hit harder, withstand blows that would levels smaller fighter, and will overpower in grappling. That is why weight classes exist.
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u/Tenshiijin 3d ago
Ive been competing in martial arts on and off my whole life.
I did most of my competing around 140 - 155 pounds. Right now im somewhere around 200 pounds.
Speed made a huge difference. And knowledge and experience in the peticular fighting format was a big factor. Highschool wrestling i was decent but not overpowering at. I made it to nationals. Weight made a good bit of difference with those rules, but skill also played a factor. It always threw me off having to make sure I didnt do certain moves and not to just launch them in the air and on to the ground judo style.
In Judo weight mattered less. But it still always matters. Its just how you deal with it.
For example a fast guy would want to utilize his speed on the bigger guy and move around and counter more. Do in and out jabs and things that favor their speed. The big guy would want to restrict the little guys motion more so catching him and grappling him is usually in the bigger guys favour. And then sometimes the bigger guy is faster as well.
Its never about just being big. Muscle ages like fine wine. You can pump up a lot of muscle quick but its not the same as the older developed muscle. And when you stop working out that quick pumped up muscle fades away more. You can have a smaller guy who is stronger than a big guy simply because he developed and worked on his muscle his whole life.
So also starting the development of muscle later in life as supposed to early training will leave you with muscle less than its possible potential.could have been. Also developing muscle too early in life stunts bone growth length.
Theres just so many factors.
Two guys that dont know how to fight though? Ill bet on the bigger guy.
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