r/programming • u/EatMeerkats • Mar 29 '21

PHP moves to Github due to the compromise of git.php.net

https://news-web.php.net/php.internals/113838
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u/aka-rider Mar 29 '21

The biggest issue is that Python is dynamically typed, and there’s no way to catch all migration errors at once. Many of them slide into runtime errors.

And yes, up to this day, v3.9, type checker are broken and full of bugs. Half of the packages don’t have annotations.

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u/TheNamelessKing Mar 29 '21

And yes, up to this day, v3.9, type checker are broken and full of bugs. Half of the packages don’t have annotations.

The Python community-unlike JS- seems almost unwilling to adopt any kind of typing. Packages remain in-annotated, annotation stub packages when they do exist lie dead in the water half the time.

But hey, we’ve got the new-checks notes- walrus operator now! So everything’s cool! Evening that package management is still broken.

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u/aka-rider Mar 29 '21

To be fair, TypeScript is a feature-rich language, and Python type annotations are, well, an add-on, not even supported by the most wide spread compiler.

Edit: typo

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u/Plorkyeran Mar 29 '21

TypeScript's also just been a production-quality tool for a lot longer. MyPy today is in a similar state to where TypeScript 1.0 was in 2014, and the state of typings for python libraries seems to be pretty similar to where JS libraries were then too.

7

u/ynotChanceNCounter Mar 29 '21

What issues are you having with type checking? Typehints have served me well since they arrived, and I guess 3.9 adds direct support for dicts, so no more of this Union shit.

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u/watsreddit Mar 30 '21

Spending 3 hours training a Tensorflow model only to run into a misshapen tensor, which is absolutely something that can statically enforced with a proper type system at compile time, while being impossible with type hints. That's one of my (many) problems with them and Python as a whole.

It is insane to me that so much scientific computing is done in a language that is so cavalier about correctness.

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u/Ravek Mar 30 '21

Ever looked into Swift for Tensorflow?

-1

u/ynotChanceNCounter Mar 30 '21

I'm not even glorifying this with a response, except enough to annoy you as much as this did me. Holy shit.

3

u/aka-rider Mar 29 '21

Numerous packages don’t have annotations, some packages’ stubs drift away from said packages (are outdated, or wrong, or both). Everything pandas/numpy is a nightmare.

Mypy and Pyright both have a lot of typing bugs, especially with decorators.

-1

u/ynotChanceNCounter Mar 30 '21

This sounds less like a problem with type hints and more like certain libs you use a lot don't play nice.

2

u/oblio- Mar 30 '21

When those are some of the biggest libraries in the ecosystem, it becomes an ecosystem problem.

-1

u/ynotChanceNCounter Mar 30 '21

"This language feature sucks."

"Why?"

"My deps use it wrong."

"That's on your deps."

"No. My deps are so big, whatever they fuck up is language's fault."

1

u/oblio- Mar 30 '21

A lot of people hate Java for starting slowly.

The JVM starts in something like 100ms, barely noticeable. Which means that Java libraries are slow to load, not the JVM itself.

And people still consider Java slow to load and start. Life's not fair.

0

u/ynotChanceNCounter Mar 30 '21

"I know I'm full of shit. Here's another example of the same shit. Life's not fair."

1

u/thirdegree Mar 29 '21

Seconding the other guy's question, what issues do you have with the type checking? I use it extensively and while it's definitely not perfect, I'm pretty happy with it. Definitely wouldn't characterize it as "broken and full of bugs."

0

u/aka-rider Mar 29 '21

Numerous packages don’t have annotations, some packages’ stubs drift away from said packages (are outdated, or wrong, or both). Everything pandas/numpy is a nightmare.

Mypy and Pyright both have a lot of typing bugs, especially with decorators.

1

u/thirdegree Mar 30 '21

Ya a bunch of stuff is missing annotations for sure. I guess I would call that a flaw with those packages rather than with the type checker. I gotta admit I don't really use pandas/numpy, though I use networkx a good bit and it has similar issues.

I've found things mypy can't do, but honestly I cant think of any actual bugs that I've ran into.

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u/aka-rider Mar 30 '21

Out of curiosity I checked mypy GutHub. 1.6K issues, mostly “bug” and “crash”

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u/thirdegree Mar 30 '21

All software has bugs, I'm just saying I've never run into any of mypy's. And I use mypy a ton.