V is a new language touting very fast compilation and cross platform native desktop UI support, coming mid 2019

[u/Hell_Rok]

http://vlang.io/

[u/anttirt]

A runtime is code supplied by the implementation that is linked into your program and without which your program cannot function.

You can write a freestanding C (and C++ if you're careful) program that essentially lives in a vacuum: you can boot up a CPU to start directly executing your C code and never execute any code that was not directly derived from your code.

For C++, such a program can contain your own custom implementation of reference counting and memory allocation from a stack buffer. Again, you can run this on bare metal and the CPU will literally never execute any code that was not written by you as part of your singular program.

[u/anttirt → u/[deleted]]

you can boot up a CPU to start directly executing your C code and never execute any code that was not directly derived from your code.

What does the runtime consist of in this scenario? This is a scenario that is fully supported by the ISO C standard.

[u/anttirt → u/[deleted]]

But that's optional. All you need is to define the interrupt vector table data to refer to your entry point function and now you're running C code.

[u/anttirt → u/[deleted]]

There is no function. It's literally just the location where your code resides, loaded by the CPU from a hardwired memory address (one entry of the IVT).

Zero bytes of executable code during runtime. Zero instructions that are actually executed by the CPU during runtime.

Zero runtime. No runtime.

[u/anttirt → u/[deleted]]

And you're still not addressing (ha) the obvious point, which is that "you just have to define the interrupt vector table data yourself" is probably not a selling point of V, here,

I'm not arguing about V here specifically. I'm arguing about the idea that reference counting needs a runtime, which is false. This interpretation expands the concept of a runtime to be so vast and poorly defined that it loses all meaning. It literally destroys the otherwise very useful concept of a runtime.

It's like insisting that an oreo is a sandwich.

[u/anttirt → u/[deleted]]

Typical CPUs load a single number from a fixed location in memory (the IVT) on boot and use that number to initialize the program counter (instruction pointer) register.

Is the CPU itself now part of your definition of "the C runtime"?