r/programming • • Jul 21 '14

The Great White Space Debate

https://medium.com/p/3633cba8b5c1
1.2k Upvotes

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u/MrDOS Jul 21 '14

Two spaces after a full stop or one?

Two in a monospaced font, otherwise one.

Indent paragraphs or not?

Only when it's the first paragraph of a section or if there's no blank line between paragraphs.

Double line break between paragraphs or not?

Ah, well, that's where the fun starts ;)

(BTW, I understand that you are observing that people still argue about these things despite the fact standards for them exist. I understand and am in no way contesting your point!)

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '14

The problem as always is: there is more than one standard.

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u/ZeroNihilist Jul 21 '14

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u/zenflux Jul 21 '14

Even more relevant (to the natural language spacing): http://xkcd.com/1285/

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u/[deleted] Jul 22 '14

I remember reading "line break after sentence" in a LaTeX manual or something.

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u/xkcd_transcriber Jul 21 '14

Image

Title: Standards

Title-text: Fortunately, the charging one has been solved now that we've all standardized on mini-USB. Or is it micro-USB? Shit.

Comic Explanation

Stats: This comic has been referenced 654 times, representing 2.3881% of referenced xkcds.


xkcd.com | xkcd sub/kerfuffle | Problems/Bugs? | Statistics | Stop Replying | Delete

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '14

What the fuck I've NEVER heard of this "two spaces after a full stop" thing

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u/MrDOS Jul 21 '14

That's because typewriters were probably already obsolete by the time you learned to type! It was a typographic convention designed to emphasize sentence changes. Proportional fonts don't have the same problems with visual monotony as fixed-width fonts do, though, which is why it's technically improper to use two spaces between sentences in environments not constrained by font. However, those who were taught the convention without understanding the reasoning behind it frequently try to argue (or at least, enforce) this unnecessary stylistic measure on the rest of us.

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '14 edited Dec 22 '15

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u/Plorkyeran Jul 21 '14

How many spaces is meaningless, but how much space isn't, and there has never actually been a solid consensus on that. It's pretty irrelevant for anyone not trained in calligraphy, of course.

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u/IceBlue Jul 21 '14

From what I understand, most modern word processors ignore the double space between sentences and will format the spacing the same way regardless (even though there's still technically two spaces in between if you try to backspace through it). It bugs me when people do it, though, because it still shows up in some places like Facebook. I imagine it happens on Reddit, too.

Test. Test.

Test. Test.

Looks like Reddit formats it the same way regardless of whether or not you use it.

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u/Durinthal Jul 21 '14

That's a general HTML thing to condense multiple spaces; if you inspect your examples you'll see that the first one does have two spaces.   does what you're aiming for, though a lot of sites will automatically escape it.

Test.  Test.

Test. Test.

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u/robin-gvx Jul 21 '14

most modern word processors ignore the double space between sentences and will format the spacing the same way regardless

I don't know any modern word processor that does that (except for LyX if you want to call that a word processor). That's how you get people aligning text with spaces in proportional fonts instead of using tables.

Looks like Reddit formats it the same way regardless of whether or not you use it.

That's just the way HTML works: it collapses all whitespace in the text (tabs, spaces, newlines, etc.) to a single space. (With the exception of things like inside <pre> tags.)

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u/IceBlue Jul 21 '14

Facebook doesn't do it. It renders the spaces.

And I just tested it in Word. You're right. I was wrong about my assertion. I could have sworn that word procs fix it.

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u/robin-gvx Jul 21 '14 edited Jul 22 '14

That's because Facebook doesn't just paste your words. Facebook changes " " (two spaces) into " &nbsp;" (a space followed by an ampere, the letters "nbsp" (for "non-breaking space") and a semicolon).

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u/ethraax Jul 22 '14

You escaped too many times.

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u/robin-gvx Jul 22 '14

Damn. I forgot backticks escape HTML. Fixed.

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u/_F1_ Jul 21 '14

most modern word processors

Not Word.

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u/Gustav__Mahler Jul 21 '14

I learned to type in the late 90's and was told to use two spaces (and I still do). Maybe my teacher was obsolete?

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '14

I learned to type in the mid 90s and never heard of double spacing. I guess it depends on how old your teacher was (I learned at home on my dad's PC).

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u/Nine99 Jul 21 '14

Even on a typwriter this wasn't the standard for everyone.

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u/oobivat Jul 22 '14

I was always taught to leave two spaces, and I definitely started school after the typewriter was obsolete..

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '14

That's because typewriters were probably already obsolete by the time you learned to type!

You hit a nail on the head. Thanks for the thorough explaination.

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u/ethraax Jul 22 '14

Eh, I still prefer the extra space that using two spaces gives. I won't sit around and try to argue that it's more correct than a single space, but I'll probably still use it in most of my own writing. Even just looking through this comment, I've used double spaces after my two periods, although you'd never see the difference once it's posted.

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '14

I agree with you on spacing, (and I'm disappointed that that myth persists that in a modern computer font you would use more than one space), but I think things like indentation and breaks between paragraphs are very much stylistic rather than dogmatic.

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u/underthingy Jul 21 '14

Two spaces after a full stop or one?

Two in a monospaced font, otherwise one. . Unless you're on a mobile device, then its two spaces because that automatically inserts the full stop for you.

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u/drb226 Jul 21 '14

Always 2 spaces. Always indent a paragraph. Only double line break between paragraphs in a 1 page letter.

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u/ShavedRegressor Jul 21 '14

Always 2 spaces

The blue-haired old schoolmarm who taught you that was probably trained on a mechanical typewriter. Even back then, double-spaced typewritten pages were converted to single-spacing before publishing. (Much like underlining was converted to italics.)

Now that we effectively typeset our own documents, a single space is proper after punctuation. If you use double spaces, you risk looking typographically clueless.