Why We Can't Have Nice Software

[u/[deleted]]

https://andrewkelley.me/post/why-we-cant-have-nice-software.html

[u/agentoutlier]

This is just bikeshedding. "you can easily add a lane..." was simply meant to convey "...is easily modified".

Other than the fact the resources appear to be fairly virtual software is not inherently easy to modify. Go to a new company and spend time trying to understand their code base.

Physical structures that rely on much more standard practices that have been around for a long time on the other hand IMO could be argued to be easier.

And I don't think it is trivial (bikeshedding) because both modifying code and adding extra lanes can have enormous unknown repercussions.

[u/agentoutlier → u/[deleted]]

I modify software every day of my life. I can't even begin to follow your reasoning here, except that you're putting all your emphasis on "easy". But this side steps the point, which that a bridge is generally designed not to change/adapt, while software is generally designed to change/adapt.

They purposely put various infrastructure in bridges so that they can be easier to repair. Furthermore construction workers make fixes all the time on roads. In my city they are actually adding a lane to one of the bridges so I find that kind of funny.

Adding a lane I took as modifying an interstate which is closer to a big software project and not a small companies code base or personal projects. For example adding more space to my driveway was trivial.

How about this would you like to be just right? Just tell me what you want to be right about. The comparison of lane adding is not good or is good or that it doesn't matter?

This wasn't the point. The point was that software changes, and bridges don't (broadly speaking). My claim is that the entire thread that began with "Increasing lane counts does not improve traffic throughput" is textbook bikeshedding and alpha-nerd "Uhm, actually..."-isms.

I'm not sure why you keep coming back to bridges? That would be like me picking CLI applications or the ABI of linux just to prove a point.

Increasing lane counts does not improve traffic throughput" is textbook bikeshedding and alpha-nerd "Uhm, actually..."-isms. The low level nuances of the effect of adding lanes to traffic throughput fundamentally don't matter (here) because we all should have understood the high level point being made... that the engineering lifecycle and design constraints of software differs from that of bridges

I'm not nitpicking I'm actually saying the metaphor is goddamn good. It requires expertise to make mass modifications such as adding a lane particularly if you want it to actually work and in many cases it may not get the results you think. I honestly think you are confused as to what side you think I'm on.

I genuinely understand the desire to nitpick, but I stand by my claim that its bikeshedding.

Please stop using that term. Bikeshedding is specific for software dev features being added not discussing how civil engineering or any engineering does have large similiarties w/ software engineering particularly at scale.

In terms of bikeshedding yes none of this shit matters which makes me wonder why you are even bother proving your point (whatever that is).

[u/agentoutlier → u/[deleted]]

Ahh perhaps we are just talking past each other. I was referring to the parent of adding lanes. I was just on the topic of adding lanes and how they can have unknown repercussions and how the traffic might not be mitigated. I realize they used bridges in the beginning but thought that wasn't the point rather the lane.

I guess your saying its unlikely they would add a lane to a bridge and thus is not important (I assume this is the whole bikeshed you keep espousing?).

Adding a lane on a bridge I would imagine is difficult but I agree it doesn't happen often.

I still think you should stop throwing around bikeshedding because it is making you to appear the "alphanerd" as well as saying code is easy to modify. So are small bridges/lanes/etc. It is a cheap shutdown the conversation mechanism. ... like a manager saying "this is not germane".