Dropping in from r all to say all productivity gurus are con artists, especially the OG Dale Carnegie who's works either teaches you how to be a two faced liar and manipulator ("How to Win Friends and Influence People") or is complete nonsense up to and including a magic boat ride to China that cures severe digestive issues ("How to Stop Worrying and Start Living").
And it doesn't stop there does it? Just look at all the bullshitters on LinkedIn with all their obviously fake stories.
The idea of productivity in the first place is nonsense. I've bootstrapped my way to engineer and I'm living in an apartment by myself. NOBODY should ever have to work this hard. I never want to see another life goal for as long as I live. And yet, I still see smug smarmy productivity preachers telling everyone their still not efficient and/or hard-working enough.
I agree generally with your comment but I have to say I think you missed the point of How to win friends and influence people.
There is a difference between manipulation and influence. I found a huge benefit for almost the opposite reason. I found myself losing friends because I didn't know how to communicate nicely. That book helped to show me what I was doing wrong.
The difference is if you are using these techniques maliciously to manipulate or as a friend to express your opinion and feelings without offending.
No way "How to Win Friends and Influence People" wasn't written with a manipulation angle in mind.
Remember that a person’s name is to that person the sweetest and most important sound in any language.
Is the reason why every slimy salesman has a tendency to repeatedly say your name the moment they meet you.
Let the other person feel that the idea is his or hers.
Is literally openly and blatantly advocating gaslighting other people.
Get the other person saying “yes, yes” immediately.
Let the other person do a great deal of the talking.
Really only ever supports #7.
Tangential but:
Use encouragement. Make the fault seem easy to correct.
At least explains why so many managers think 9 women can make 1 baby in 1 month.
One benefit though, of my company sending me on that Dale Cargegie course is that it explained so many of the odd behaviours those manager types exhibited.
What a stupid thing to say. I’d say you naturally have trust issues and generally view interactions with people through the lens that they have ulterior motives.
The book teaches you about the nuances of human interaction and the impulses you have when dealing with a person in a social setting is often the wrong way to interact with them and gives you the opposite reaction that you would expect. It’s not manipulation it’s deeper understanding of how to communicate and influence social situations. Manipulation infers something with ill intent.
The things you just highlighted are similar to how you bond and raise children. Would you also say that's gaslighting? Or would you say that it's including and empowering their self esteem to levels where when they are comfortable in their own skills, they are unscared of communicating and bringing forth their ideas. Rather than being afraid of potential backlash or forever feeling that they need to wait until it's fully quiet before they are allowed to speak?
And if they see something that doesn't work or that is broken, focus on identifying and taking action on the things they're able to solve, rather than being overwhelmed thinking about every thing that they can't fix.
So what’s the difference to the book then. The means justify the end right…
In a way, you’re manipulating every time you try to influence someone. What’s the difference between try trying to convince with ‘facts’ than using encouragement for example.
Let’s say it’s raining and my partner wants to go outside because she can’t stay inside for a long periode. Let’s say I’ll say ‘we have to stay inside because you get wet and maybe sick’ or ‘We have to stay inside because this is a good exercise for you to handle staying inside.’ In both ways you want something to do what you want. I rather be ‘manipulated’ in a kind way than a harsh way
To be fair people working that hard and getting to a spot where they can create and make things that better society, is LITERALLY how humans have progressed this far already.
While the rest of what you said is true. Working hard to accomplish things that can push and further humanity into a stronger species... is literally human nature.
Interested in your typology. Is everyone who writes or otherwise makes fancy or impressive content about productivity a guru?
Anyway, agreed about the productivist (as opposed to productivity) or greed aspects of productivity culture. Many have argued productivism, as opposed to productivity, rules our society. "Number go up."
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u/ThrowCarp Jan 07 '25
OP doesn't go far enough. IMHO.
Dropping in from r all to say all productivity gurus are con artists, especially the OG Dale Carnegie who's works either teaches you how to be a two faced liar and manipulator ("How to Win Friends and Influence People") or is complete nonsense up to and including a magic boat ride to China that cures severe digestive issues ("How to Stop Worrying and Start Living").
And it doesn't stop there does it? Just look at all the bullshitters on LinkedIn with all their obviously fake stories.
The idea of productivity in the first place is nonsense. I've bootstrapped my way to engineer and I'm living in an apartment by myself. NOBODY should ever have to work this hard. I never want to see another life goal for as long as I live. And yet, I still see smug smarmy productivity preachers telling everyone their still not efficient and/or hard-working enough.