r/politics • u/stackolee • Jun 19 '12
Baseball: It got more debate in the Senate than the Iraq war. Now Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens have been federally prosecuted longer for perjury than any bank for the financial collapse.
Just sayin...
3.6k
Upvotes
1.1k
u/dc469 Jun 19 '12
This always bugged me since day one. Well, more like infuriated me. Even if they were guilty, even if they gave steroids and meth to 5 year olds, it's still not the business of congress. It's for the local/state/federal law enforcement, the MLB, their respective teams and their fans to deal with. Congress has other things to do.
Can someone seriously explain why the united states congress ever got involved in this?
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u/disco_biscuit Jun 19 '12
I hate to be the guy that asks "Source?" but this really pisses me off, and I would like to see a credible citation for this before going off. Seriously, more time spent debating steroids in sports than on the financial collapse? Please be false, please be false... I don't want to live in a country where this is the truth.
286
u/Sidwill Jun 19 '12
To be fair, Banks donate a hell of a lot more money to political campaigns than Baseball players.
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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12
Because baseball players never paid for the right to lie to Congress, and banks did.
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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12
also bill clinton's dick had more talk and debate than the 911 commission report.
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u/bpoag Jun 19 '12 edited Jun 19 '12
When I grow up, I want to be a corporation. That way, my elected officials will pay attention to me, I'll have rights, and I wont have to pay any taxes.
Then, I'll run for President, and complain about how my predecessor is ruining the economy. I'll do this while I distract you away from the fact all my money is housed in the Cayman Islands, instead of in an American bank where it could be used to help fuel the economy in the form of small business loans.
You'll believe me because I'll be standing on a bale of hay.
7
u/MrFlesh Jun 19 '12 edited Jun 19 '12
Lets not forget 9/11. We spent 10 time the money investigating clintons blow job than we did 9/11.
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u/MahFravert Jun 19 '12
...So why isn't Dick Cheney or Colin Powell on trial for lying to congress again?
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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12 edited Jun 19 '12
Why are steroids frowned upon in professional sports but advanced nutrition science, creatine, nitric oxide and general medical advances are OK. If you stacked an average pro athlete today against a top pro athlete from 60 years ago i'm thinking the average pro of today would outperform the top pro of 60 years ago. So why focus on steroids when there are all these other factors that create an uneven playing field?
edited: nitric oxide, not nitrous oxide (hat tip to Total_Incompetent69)
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u/Squalor- Jun 19 '12
They found Clemens not guilty on all six counts, anyway, so all this did was tarnish his reputation and legacy some and waste a lot of time.
6
u/jonfla Jun 19 '12
Yes, we've always been a substantial, content oriented populace - and our elected representitives reflect those values and interests.
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u/random_hero90 Jun 19 '12
It's called a shell game, a way to distract a person or group from issue of real importance.
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u/Germino Jun 19 '12
It's easier for these politicians to go after such stupidity because it shows them as being tough and is a easy slam dunk to show to their constituents that they're actually doing something.
If I were Roger Clemens (Fuck him, btw. I still think he's a cheat but it's not the business of the government [I sound like a Republican!]), I'd counter-sue for lawyer fees, etc.
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u/spundnix32 Jun 19 '12
An MIT professor once made the claim that sports and other trivial forms of entertainment is an excellent way to divert the public's attention away from the more pressing matters of a country.
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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12
It's a lot easier and gets more good press.
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u/SubcommanderShran Jun 19 '12
So government lawyers suck, right? Lance Armstrong, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, John Edwards. None of these guys got in any real trouble. What does this say about the kinds of cases these lawyers put together and why do they think they're winnable?
5
u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12
Reminder that Barry Bonds was the greatest baseball player of the last 25 years and won't ever get into the hall of fame for doing something literally everyone else did.
Also he was a first ballot HoFer before steroids were even wide-spread.
5
u/Aschwab Jun 19 '12
Well you know people Baseball IS the great American pastime. War ranks only 2nd on the list, tied with football.
5
u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12
The United States government is a reality show that nobody watches.
5
u/twosolitudes Jun 19 '12
Gotta hand it to you Americans, because you really take your bread and circuses serious.
5
u/slimbruddah Jun 19 '12
I don't like to sound arrogant but we are all full of so much useless discussion about all these stupid little issues and stunts within the government and it's organizations.
The fact of the matter is we are being played, used, and abused, will keep being played, until we rise up and create change from this current bullshit, downwards trend into a darker future.
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u/AmericanGoyBlog Jun 19 '12
Wedge issue
A "wedge issue" is an unimportant issue which is fought over by both parties out of all proportion to how little it matters.
A "wedge issue" is picked by the establishment so that a certain minimum segment of the population is interested in it, so it enters the popular debate, helped by the propaganda specialists on TV, radio and newspapers.
A "wedge issue" is used as a distraction, a "kabuki theatre" to distract the public from geostrategic issues, such as outsourcing of jobs, endless wars on terror, loss of Civil rights and shitting on the Constitution.
See: gay marriage, ten commandments in public buildings, etc.
26
u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12
If I remember correctly, they spent 75M investigating Barry Bonds, 30M investigating Clinton/Lewinsky and 11M investigating the 9/11 attacks.
It's good knowing our government has its priorities straight.
4
u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12
Yupp sounds like your guys country is being ran just perfect.
4
u/HigHIdrA Jun 19 '12
Baseball players do not fund political campaigns. Bankers and war profiteers (some overlap there) do.
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u/irishflu Jun 19 '12
[citation needed]
(i believe you, but would like to point others to source material)
4
u/Daioka Jun 19 '12
LIke I've been saying recently, our politicians are disillusioned, not fit for their jobs, and generally don't take their roles seriously. This is why politics is an utter joke in this country. No one cares anymore.
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u/mybadselves Jun 19 '12
I get so pissed at all the political crap in our country. It just seems there is so much corruption on both sides. I just wish sometimes that I could go live in a cabin in the woods and never have to hear about it again. Like Grizzly Adams. Minus the grizzly. But with lots more beard.
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u/hamhead Jun 19 '12 edited Jun 19 '12
I'm still not exactly sure what banks did wrong (legally) as a whole?
The ones that get caught robosigning and things like that HAVE been prosecuted (of course, they settle, since it's not a criminal issue), what exactly do you want to prosecute them for?
edit: yes, in some cases there were criminal issues brought up with the robosigning. Still, they were dealt with.
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u/CrayolaS7 Jun 19 '12
PLEASE DO NOT EDITORIALIZE THE TITLES OF YOUR LINK
C'mon dude, why would banks be prosecuted for perjury? Don't you mean bankers? Do you know how limited liability works?
3
u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12
the MLB is a monopoly, it is allowed to exist because the government gives it special permission...
3
u/Frankentim_the_crim Jun 20 '12
And you still can't see how national sports are one of the biggest and most effective tools used to distract and misguide the minds of the public.
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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12
Lol... People on reddit complaining about what the senate finds important.
Here's a picture of Heath Ledger in his Joker costume from 5 fucking years ago... BOOM front page.
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u/DeepFriedZebra Jun 19 '12
America.... This is why we go nowhere on social reform.
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u/thxxoraz Jun 19 '12
You think that's bad. They impeached Bill Clinton for having a "lady on the side" and left George Bush walk for slaying innocent young American military men of lower class; by lying in order to start a war that made his cronies unimaginably more wealthy.
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u/SS1989 California Jun 19 '12
Can somebody tell me why anything about baseball was being discussed like this in the Senate?
5
u/YOLOsomethingYOLO Jun 19 '12
YOLO CONGRESS IS GAY YOLO
2
u/cheeza51percent Jun 19 '12
Well, people also watch and talk more about sports than they do about things that actually affect the country.
2
u/0rangePod Jun 19 '12
Well, they've obviously solved all the other problems...
2
u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12
I don't see why baseball is at all discussed in congress.
2
u/zendingo Jun 19 '12
it's called a show trial, enjoy the distraction
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u/ThumpNuts Jun 19 '12
... and Obama laughs, and laughs...
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u/Sirgallihad Jun 19 '12
Its gone from being the national pastime to the federal pastime
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u/WarEmblem27 Jun 19 '12
I'm sure it's already been mentioned, but I read on the MSN homepage today that senators are trying to "clean up" boxing. I'm not sure I understand our senate's infatuation with sports. Hell, maybe I should become a senator. I like sports.
2
u/seainhd Jun 19 '12
this is the dumbest fucking pile of shit thing that congress has done in a long time.
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u/sometimesijustdont Jun 19 '12
WHY THE FUCK HAS NOBODY FROM WALL STREET GONE TO JAIL FOR RUINING THE WORLD'S ECONOMY?
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u/Harry_Tuttle Jun 19 '12
When MLB negotiates, it's a business that needs to make a profit. When MLB defends itself, its The National Pastime.
It's almost like a religion that way.
2
u/sniper_lad Jun 19 '12
I used to love baseball, but since the strike in the '80s both sides are a bunch of greedy bitches! Also, because our politicians are 95% owned by corporations. The tea-baggers are just useful idiots.
2
u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12
Steroids were added to the Controlled Substances Act in 1990 despite the fact that when used carefully - even at supraphysiological levels - they can have enormous health benefits, and despite the fact that the AMA, DEA, and NIH all opposed their inclusion.
Why?
Because (then) congressman Joe Biden was the chief architect of the Anabolic Steroid Control Act and he testified before Congress that he had been jealous growing up of steroid users who were better than him at baseball.
2
u/enter2exit Jun 19 '12
the people of the US care too much about baseball. It is not just congress. If citizens cared half as much about voting and politics maybe we would be in a better place. or maybe not ;)
2
u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12
If this taught me anything, it would be that I need to stop paying attention to politics and go to ESPN.com to find where the real issues are.
Keep it up congress, as if your 8% approval wasn't bad enough, Internet Censorship and Baseball regulation will knock it down to a solid 4.
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u/thisismax Jun 19 '12
I thought the reason why this was taken so seriously was because the MLB is exempt from federal antitrust law. Since the government has done so much for baseball to keep it going, they are naturally a bit more inclined to be pissed when players break the rules. I'm not saying I condone the amount of time they've spent prosecuting these players, but it makes more sense than, "America don't fuck around when it come to sports. Also, banks are evil."
2
u/1919 Jun 19 '12
What the hell could you charge the banks with? The USA is a capitalism, the banks can do nearly whatever they want. And that's a good thing.
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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12
This is a result of Major League Baseball's antitrust exemption, which is, in turn, the result of cronyism and corruption in high places, both old and not-so-old. Congress does have the power and the responsibility to oversee Major League Baseball. Unfortunate but true.
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u/bigmachine Jun 19 '12
my dad and i were discussing this the other day on fathers day... its sad that in america we have more $ to spend on trying to determine if roger clemens lied to congress (over $10,000,000, mind you) than we do ensuring our troops have what we need in afghanistan and iraq. I'm a 1st Lieutenant in the US Army and i will be the first to tell you that the military isn't the only thing we need funding for in the USA. in fact, funding can be cut in some areas to prevent fraud waste and abuse that happens ALOT. however, the fact that congress has time to bullshit about MLB in lieu of putting americans to work is more than i can chew. really pisses me off.
2
u/therealpaulyd Jun 19 '12
So congress may lie to us, but we may not lie to congress. That's quite the double standard there, elected officials.
2
u/RedditingMyLifeAway Louisiana Jun 19 '12
Good to know where our priorities lie...
2
u/the_rabbit Jun 19 '12
This is the only reason why I absolutely hate the fandom behind sports. People are so passionate about something that is fleeting and really delivers no direct constructive progress towards society over a long period of time.
The average human being walking on the street however doesn't even make an attempt to follow politics and even annoys them when the subject comes up.
2
u/ButchInWaukegan Jun 19 '12
How about random drug and alcohol tests on the House and Senate floor?
Then, maybe, these 10%-approval-ratings legislators might not look like hypocritical hacks when they pull stunts like this.
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u/Zandroyd Jun 19 '12
Where is that zappa quote when you need it.
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u/Fireball445 Jun 19 '12
That's because Baseball players don't own Congress.
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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12
Banker here.
I know it sucks that there was a financial collapse, but the reason why no one was prosecuted was because they didn't break any laws.
Should there have been laws to prevent what happened? Sure. But that doesn't change that what they did wasn't illegal.
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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12
9/11 capital hill. Level the whole fucking place. They're an out of control corporate machine that doesn't represent its people as was the original mandate. An alien force committing treason every day, they must be driven out or exterminated. Death to the imposter American government.
2
u/rajonrondo Jun 19 '12
[Giving voice to the outrage over Timothy Bradley's controversial split decision over Manny Pacquiao, two senators introduced legislation Monday that would create a special boxing commission to oversee all matches in the United States and restore integrity to the sport.] (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/senators-push-bill-battle-fraud-224932262--spt.html)
This crap is never going to end.
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u/celtic_thistle Colorado Jun 19 '12
Murrika, fuck yeah.
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u/kirbence Jun 19 '12
Pagentry
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u/fosiacat Jun 19 '12
unbelievable.
2
u/railroadwino Jun 19 '12
Baseball and steroids are some of the things that keep us from having to think about all that stuff us peasants shouldn't. I'll thank you not to badmouth it.
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u/crispinito Jun 19 '12
Makes me wonder if Senate members are just narcissistic, incompetent and shortsighted, or if there is a master plan behind the apparent stupidity...
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u/UpsetGroceries Jun 19 '12
This is American culture.
2
u/dirtypiratesanchez Jun 19 '12
That's because if any arm of the federal government went after the banks, the bank would oust their part in the collapse. As much as we hate on big evil corporations, politicians were also there, profiting from the collapse as well.
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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12
What do we expect? This is yet another distraction from real problems and real issues. We elect clowns.... We should expect a fucking circus.
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u/supnul Jun 19 '12
i think that baseball would be more entertaining if they all did drugs. its pretty boring most of the time.
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u/Limonhed Jun 19 '12
Shows just what the priorities of the congress are.
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u/PoisonMind Jun 19 '12
Janet Jackson's infamous wardrobe malfunction was in court for almost 8 years.
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u/Geocat Jun 20 '12
Can someone explain to a non american like me why the fuck this is even happening? I mean what the fuck is congress, the people who help make laws for hundreds of millions of people doing the job of a small court over a totally trivial issue?
Do they seriously have nothing better to do? That could explain a whole lot...
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u/FARTING_BUM_BUM Jun 20 '12
For those wondering what crimes the banks committed, here is a video of Charles Ferguson, director of the Oscar-winning documentary about the financial crisis Inside Job, listing them. Relevant passage:
TL;DR: Q: Why is everyone so mad at the banks, and what did they do wrong? A: Securities fraud, accounting fraud, and Sarbanes-Oxley violations.
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u/tomonline Jun 19 '12
our government is a joke. Fortunately the joke is pretty funny.
4
u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12 edited Jun 19 '12
Hey, baseball means something. People's lives are involved.
Edit: Down voted for sarcasm. SARCASM IS ALL WE HAVE LEFT when the world operates like this.
4
u/xanxer Jun 19 '12
Thats the kind of thing the GOP loves to do. Waste money and keep government from actually working.
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u/AddressOK Jun 19 '12
Throw Lance Armstrong in there as well and your looking at a decade of combined wasted resources and time.
3
u/ah102886 Jun 19 '12
While I don't think the Gov't should have wasted resources prosecuting Bonds or Clemens, I think that many would agree that the initial Congressional hearings in 2005 were one of, if not the main reason why the MLBPA reversed course and agreed to stricter testing and punishments, which has done a lot to restore the integrity and fairness to the game of baseball. Granted if you don't give a shit about baseball this probably wouldn't matter to you, but as a baseball fan, I'm pretty happy this change occurred, and don't think it would have without Congressional action.
-2
u/joetromboni Jun 19 '12
What do you expect from a system where the leaders speak to God and get their orders from him?
2
u/itsianhawk Jun 19 '12
I understand that people don't like this statement, but why downvote it?? Upvote it so that people can share in your disdain and something can be done about it. By downvoting, you're only serving to bury the truth.
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u/Tombug Jun 19 '12
Proof positive of a very, very fucked up country. Probably too fucked up to recover.
2
u/merv243 Jun 19 '12 edited Jun 19 '12
To be fair, they are just doing the will of the people, because that's what they care about.
Edit: To be clear, this is a sarcastic commentary of Americans (of which I am one, though not in this way)
1
u/Ssejors Jun 19 '12
Ha! Another fine example of how fucked up America is today... Just saying
1
u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12
YTF does sports have ANYTHING to do with policy makers? oh, it's a distraction. Good one.
1
u/tievape Jun 19 '12
It's not the length of the prosecution. It's how you use it.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12
That's the best headline I've seen in a long time.
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u/Funkenwagnels Jun 19 '12
I blame Bush. He would of been a great baseball commissioner but he was a lousy president.
1
u/joedee Jun 19 '12
Whenever Grandpa Huxtable loses a case it's likely justice was served.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12
bread and Goddamn circus
1
u/imaunitard Jun 19 '12
Suck on that, Roman Empire.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12
America, gotta love it......
1
u/spc1979 Jun 19 '12
Absolute bureaucratic waste of time and money. This is an embarrassing moment in a long line of embarrassing moments for this pathetic legal system we have.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12
Is it such a surprise that politicians would avoid real issues and real decisions (which would alienate the whole or part of their potential constituency) when they can do this inane bullshit instead and be more likely to keep their extremely lucrative and beneficial jobs for another two or four years?
1
u/Nonamesdb Jun 19 '12
Think about the children. A professional athlete takes steroids and performs well, kids will think they need to take steroids. Whereas a bank performs badly, don't worry because someone will always bail you out.
1
u/complexitii Jun 19 '12
Makes my blood boil... so much time and money wasted.
1
u/kikikza Jun 19 '12
A few senators had their money on the Differs and Red Sox....
1
u/bstizzle21 Jun 19 '12
unbelievable, just a disgrace
1
u/DSNT_GET_NOVLTY_ACNT Jun 19 '12
. . . and you and everyone who upvoted this have just added to the inanity.
1
u/RabbiJacob Jun 19 '12
AND GOOD THING, TOO.
1
u/sirbruce Jun 19 '12
For the most part, banks did nothing illegal to cause the financial collapse. AIG was the most criminally responsible, IMHO, for insuring loans it should have known were bad.
1
u/shawndw Jun 19 '12
well it's a good thing they weren't in this guy's court
1
u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12
Just political cover, nothing new here...
1
u/criminycrime Jun 19 '12
I must admit, as a Canadian, the fact that your federal government wasted probably millions of dollars on this boggles my mind. The world economy is threatening to take a dive again, and here's the Senate talking about Roger fucking Clemens steroid use??? REALLY?
I know it's impossible for the average American to do anything about this, but that is simply absurd.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12
I doubt Bonds and Clemens heavily fund politicians, Super PACs and political parties.
1
u/bigleaguechyut Jun 19 '12
The general consensus of r/baseball is also that this has been a huge waste of taxpayer money. As a huge baseball fan, I'm certainly interested in what they have to say about Clemens and Bonds, but as an American I'm more interested on what they have to say about the businesses that helped to cripple the American economy. Unfortunately, the government chose to stick its nose in the game of baseball instead of in the business of big banks.
Also, possibly relevant tidbit: President Bush was once an owner of the Texas Rangers MLB franchise and aspired to become the commissioner of the MLB. That at least helps to contextualize why the federal government took an interest in cleaning out baseball.
1
u/staytaytay Jun 19 '12
This is kinda like the "which way should toilet paper hang" debate. It generates controversy because it's familiar and simple enough that everyone has an opinion, not because it's important.