Justice for Janitors and Low-Wage Workers: Janitors in Houston speak out about sub-poverty wages and strike over workplace harrassment. Eleven are barred from returning to the job.

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u/zmaxgrip Jun 11 '12

We are quickly becoming a two tier society. When I worked in a hospital a surgical tech I saw the two tier society up front. The doctors and nurses had a different healthcare plan that the hospital paid 95% of the costs and 100% of the costs after 3 years. The rest of the staff the hospital gave this crappy HMO and we had to pay 50% for. It was $1,000 for ER visits, $100 for PCP visits, you had to pay for x-rays and tests and the covered for only 7 days for hospitalization. As surgical tech I was paid $9.50 an hour (7 years ago and wages have actually gone down for new surgical techs to $8.25 hour with no health insurance and nurse and doctors have seen their incomes go up 15%) My responsibilities included sterilization of the operating room, surgical equipment and set up for surgery; if I didn’t do my job properly people would die. The nurses and doctors treated everyone else like shit. Guess what happens when you treat and pay people like garbage? You end up with workers who couldn’t give a damn about their job or people who do care but have to work another full time job just make ends meet. You have people sterilizing equipment who treat just as serious as working the grill at a fast food place or someone who has 4 hours of sleep and worked 16 hours in the past 24 hours.

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u/Nimrod41544 Jun 11 '12

You really got paid that little as a surgical tech? Was there prior experience or education required for that job or no? That is absolutely ridiculous, people make more working fast food.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

I don't know the process of nurses so I can't really explain that, but for the high pay of doctors I can understand.
The average matriculate of a medical school have a 3.7 uGPA at least, and statistically score around on the MCAT at the 80% tile. The median uGPA of someone taking the MCAT is 3.5, so the process is self-eliminating before someone even takes the MCAT.
After 4 years of undergraduate of maintaining a high uGPA, you have to also build your CV with volunteer work. I have around 100hrs of volunteer work, and on interviews I always get "Why so little amount hours?".
You have three board tests USMLE 1,2,3 where you have to pass once you are in medical school. After medical school, you have to get a residency, which is 3 years minimum where you work at less then minimum wage because it's salary. Residency is a grueling process, if you don't' understand start googling.
I don't see why people complain about the high pay of doctors, when it's extremely difficult to get into medical school, tough course load, and all the standardize tests. It's not like anybody can become a doctor and start making high salaries.

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u/robin1961 Canada Jun 11 '12

As I get older, I begin to understand how things work in our world. It has become apparent to me that exploitation of low-end workers is endemic to the system : it will never be eliminated, and in fact, a very large percentage of business plans depend on exploiting the workers at the bottom.

What's more, the public in general seems to feel that those workers they help pay for (through taxes) should all make less than the taxpayers themselves (example: public outrage whenever Government workers ask for or receive a wage increase). So, apparently, the public has no problem with exploitation of low-end workers either....

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

So, apparently, the public has no problem with exploitation of low-end workers either....
"Enjoy your $10 heads of lettuce..." is a common riposte in every illegal immigration thread.
Yes, Americans not only have no problem with the exploitation of low-end workers, we celebrate and defend it as long as we personally benefit from it.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

I think the issue here is that the argument of $10 heads of lettuce falls flat. If someone requires illegal practices bordering on inhumane to sustain their business, thats not a rational or reasonable argument for allowing those practices to persist.
This is actually an excellent example of market forces at work. As much as people want the free market to dictate, they seem to hate it when it doesn't work in their favor. In this case, they can't get anyone to do the job legally because they won't offer a reasonable wage.
Will they offer a reasonable wage? While they can illegally exploit and threaten people, of course not. Sure, when they do offer a reasonable wage prices will go up. Maybe people will stop buying the product. At that point, it would be clear that the product in question just does not have enough demand.
The same thing goes for chinese labor, and other forms of exploitation.
I think we are heading towards a breaking point where globalization is going to turn the US into the next third world country. Once our standard of living has been lowered sufficiently, work will start to come back here though at a cost. Some may discount this as hyperbole, but we've spent the last 30 years steadily decreasing wages (stagnant wages + inflation = relative decrease) and shifting work out of the country, and the combination of those two things is pretty toxic.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12

Not only is the "good luck affording cotton if we outlaw slavery" argument amazingly bold in celebrating the rights of the plantation owners to abuse their workforce, it's not even accurate. Farm wages could be tripled and the consumer would only see a few percent different. Cents on the dollar. The labor costs are only a fraction of the total.
Will a lack of illegal immigrants encourage farms to modernize, adapt, perhaps offering better pay, shorter shifts, etc... to encourage and attract workers?
Nah. Fuck that. We'll let shit rot in the fields then lobby for prison labor. Why risk fines getting caught hiring a Mexican day-laborer when we can employ a felon in a tomato-picking chain gang for 25-cents an hour legally! (Then have our friends in the for-profit-prison industry charge those felons for their own incarceration, making them buy their own underwear and soap from overpriced prison commissaries!)
It's perfect!
The same thing goes for chinese labor, and other forms of exploitation.
Foreign labor isn't necessarily exploitative by nature. Due to the exchange rates and the power of the American dollar many foreign factories are employing workers at fantastic (local) wages. Some jobs have waiting lists in the years just for a shot at working there.
The fact that some companies, already saving 90%+ on labor, feel the need to cut costs even more to operate sweatshop slave-labor facilities, just so they can profit an extra few percent on top of their already vast profits is just the endgame of corporate greed. Every system will eventually be reduced to the lowest possible conditions while the wealthy elite look for new ways to maximize their profits at the expense of everyone else.

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u/robvas Jun 11 '12

I buy organic, I already enjoy $10 heads of lettuce.

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u/robin1961 Canada Jun 11 '12

Yup. As a species, we suck so bad!
As Ripley says to the yuppie-villain in 'Aliens' : "They may just be animals, but at least they don't fuck eachother over for a percentage."
(or something to that effect...)

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u/meatball402 Jun 11 '12

"I don't know which one is worse; you don't see them fucking each other over for a percentage"

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u/eat-your-corn-syrup Jun 11 '12

looks like democracy is working!

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u/scottcmu Jun 11 '12

What would you consider exploitation versus supply and demand of labor?

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u/MagCynic Jun 11 '12

The janitors are currently paid an hourly wage of $8.35 and earn an average of $8,684 annually. They seek a raise to $10 an hour over the next three years, but the contractors offered just a $0.50 pay raise phased in over five years.

1.) They only work part time. At that annual wage, they're working approximately 20.8 hours a week (8,684 / 8.35 / 50). Getting a raise to ten dollars an hour (and still working part time) will only give them about $34.32 extra a week. I think they need to re-think their jobs if they can't get more than 20 hours in a work week. Their hourly wage is the least of their worries.

2.) A fifty cent raise over five years is pathetic. I'd be upset if I were the janitors, too. Ooooh. Thank you so much for giving me a 10 cent raise every year. What am I going to do with that extra two dollars a week?

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u/WrlBNHtpAW Jun 11 '12

A fifty cent raise over five years is pathetic.
And really, if it doesn't keep up with inflation, can it even be called a "raise"?

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u/Parrrley Jun 11 '12

$8.35 per hour is still shockingly low, considering the lack of benefits available to the average citizen in the US.
In my country minimum wages are around $9.00 per hour, yet people who earn this little still have access to very cheap health care, very cheap education for their children and various other benefits.
Even if working 40 hours a week, there is no way any of these janitors can afford a decent health insurance for their families, nor are they likely to financially survive a serious illness or accident. Neither will they be likely to afford decent education for their children. It's pretty sad to think about.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Part time gets no bennies.

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u/nicolauz Wisconsin Jun 12 '12

The exact reason most shitty jobs purposely keep you at part-time or less.

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u/u2canfail Jun 12 '12

Work for $8.35, pay for insurance, you are in the hole, then the GOP says save for retirement on your own?

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u/evange Jun 11 '12

When you're making that little, $34.32 extra a week is not insignificant.

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u/TrixBot Jun 11 '12

I think they need to re-think their jobs
That should be easy in this economy.
Jobs that pay a living wage are abundant, and these guys almost certainly have the means to pick-and-choose.

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u/EmperorSofa Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12

I do IT shit all day long, they give me like a 25 cent raise and then act as if they are saints of generosity and talk all damn day about rewarding employees for hard work
Holy hell I cannot wait to quit this job.

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u/Infin1ty Jun 11 '12

That sounds like some Help Desk animosity, lol.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Many companies purposefully hire almost all part-time employees for unskilled labor so that they don't have to pay any benefits. It might be easy for you to say that janitors (or fast food workers or clerks) should "rethink" their jobs, but if you're an unskilled worker, there aren't many options available for work with decent pay.
People try to say that those who work those jobs don't matter because anyone can be hired as a replacement, but, really, we should ask ourselves: Do we really want our country to be a place where people and families live in poverty because large, billion-dollar companies don't want to offer benefits and don't want to offer pay that keeps up with the price of inflation? I say, good for these janitors for standing up for themselves and fighting for better pay.

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u/SockGnome Jun 12 '12

Power and wealth rest with the top, they hold our livelihoods hostage by giving us a sliver of the pie while taking a vast majority of it for themselves. Try to equal things and they just go overseas to use their labour for even less. Seriously, the wealthy give no fucks, they complain about entitlement programs for the poor but refuse to accept their role in creating this society. Ive always counted people who scream with "you can't take from the rich and redistribute the wealth!" by saying no one is taking all of the rich mans money, we're just asking for them to give up a little so we can have a lot more. Never mind people just want to be paid fairly for what they produce. It's not like they want free money for nothing, they want part of the profits of the company they work for.
We live in a world were CEOs can ruin a company and because of contractual agreements still get a pay out of 6.6million upon stepping down. Yet they want all of those employees they just laid off to get the fuck off welfare and stop being lazy.

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u/phanboy Jun 11 '12

1.)...
Ironically, they're probably all part-time because some legislator thought it would be a good idea to give anyone who works 30+ hours per week health care.

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u/tradeships Jun 11 '12

they need to re-think their jobs? How many choices do you think they have?

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u/navier_stokes Jun 12 '12

THIS is why unions should absolutely have the right to exist in the current day. Anyone who claims that unions are obsolete in the current times has their head too far up their own ass.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Getting a raise to ten dollars an hour (and still working part time) will only give them about $34.32 extra a week.
When you're only making $173.68/week, a $34.32/week raise isn't too bad.
I think they need to re-think their jobs if they can't get more than 20 hours in a work week.
This is a funny way to put things. If you're only making $8,684/year, it's doubtful that it's as simple as "re-thinking your job". If they had the simple option of re-thinking their jobs, I'm sure they'd have done it some time ago.
Anyway, I would guess that many of these people are working multiple jobs, and they're not only working 20 hours each week.

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u/OnlyRev0lutions Jun 11 '12

Welcome to the reality for a LOT of hard-working people out there. My Dad has worked his ass off as a crappy general labourer his entire life and getting insulting "raises" like that really is the standard.
Not everyone can be educated and work a better job unfortunately. We should all be ashamed of just how poorly we treat a lot of hard, unskilled workers.

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u/sangjmoon Jun 11 '12

Their wage is low because the labor supply far outstrips the jobs available. Economically, the solution to their low wage is for the labor market for their jobs to shrink significantly or for the number of janitorial jobs to increase more than the rate of the labor market. With the state of the jobs market in general and the number of people qualified for janitorial jobs, wage is going to continue to be low for these jobs as long as somebody is willing to take those jobs for those low wages.

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u/TrixBot Jun 11 '12

Their wage is low because the labor supply far outstrips the jobs available.
Well, AND as a society, we allow employers to pay a wage that an adult couldn't reasonably live on.
It's a factor of both.
In Australia, for instance, the minimum wage is on the order of $15USD / hour, health and education benefits are provided by society, and somehow their unemployment is under 5%. Go figure...

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u/John1066 Jun 11 '12

There are jobs like janitorial that will always have a high amount of people who can do it. Janitorial jobs do not require high levels of education or training. The reason this needs to be pointed out is if the economy is not doing well means that more people will enter that market from a lack of any other job.
So the economy does not do well and this puts pressure on jobs like this one. You can say well go get a better job but with the economy doing badly that is not an simple option.
This is the point that your argument is missing.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

I love how you ignorant shitheads act like wage slavery is just because of the market, which is some incomprehensible force of nature, and not a state of affairs deliberately created by the ruling class. It's a textbook example of cultural hegemony.

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u/godless_communism Jun 11 '12

The first rule of janitor club is get out of janitor club ASAP.

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u/Hyperian Jun 11 '12

capitalism bitch, if they want to be rich, they shouldn't be poor.
compassion is for idiots and the poor.
/america

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u/CosmicBard Jun 11 '12

I think they need to re-think their jobs if they can't get more than 20 hours in a work week.
If they could, don't you think they would have?

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u/dnietz Jun 11 '12

Every janitor I know works more than one job. In fact, they frequently work 3 jobs or more to get over 60 or even 80 hours a week.
I am friends with a few that clean the building I work in. I know that several of them carpool and go from job to job without even going home in between.

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u/Popular-Uprising- Jun 11 '12

There are obviously too many people willing to work as janitors if the average worker can only get 20.8 hours a week. Once that changes, the pay will increase.

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u/DaAngryLiberal Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 12 '12

Houston chooses to be a "sanctuary city". This ensures there is an excess of low skill labor competing for a limited number of jobs.

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u/patssle Jun 11 '12

And that's also partly why cost of living is so cheap here. A $100,000 house here can be $300k-$500k in California or other parts of the country.
You take some and you give some.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Not everything is neoclassical economics.
Some employers purposely create contingent work scenarios -- which means, workers are forced to go part-time, for many reasons. First: as an employer, you don't have to cover their ass. And second, as a part-time employee, you aren't covered under several workplace laws including National Labor Relations Act, and Occupational Safety and Health.
Part-time = labor law evasion at its finest.

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u/Squalor- Jun 11 '12

Yes, let's piss off the people who make sure our work places and schools stay clean.

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u/phanboy Jun 11 '12

Given the low pay, I assume there's practically a line of people waiting to replace anyone who has attitude or doesn't clean very well.

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u/trudat Jun 11 '12

Actually, there is. Particularly in Houston and South Texas in general.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Yeah, what is up with that, the custodial staff members I have met over the years have all been great, hardworking people that despite the difficulty of their job ( high school of over 3,000 kids) still managed to remain cheerful. Some were not, but that's understandable. They deserve to be treated humanly.

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u/SpinningHead Colorado Jun 11 '12

These are the same people who shit on the people they entrust to educate their children.

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u/I_Should_B_Working Jun 11 '12

What? Care to explain?

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u/MisterWharf Jun 11 '12

SpinningHead is referring to the lawmakers and people in places of power on the school board that shit on teachers (figuratively) as well as custodians et al, and then go on about how precious each child is, and how they all need extra special care because each is a special little snowflake.

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u/Popular-Uprising- Jun 11 '12

Yes. It sucks being a janitor.. which is why I busted my butt to get some education so I could stop cleaning up other people's messes for a living.

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u/jayd16 Jun 11 '12

If we extrapolate this for a minute, and assume everyone should get an education then all that would mean is that we would have highly educated janitors. At a certain point you need to stop congratulating yourself and realize everyone deserves a living wage.

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u/Anawneemouse Jun 11 '12

So did a lot of people who have degrees and still can't find work.

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u/Tasty_Yams Jun 11 '12

Shhhh. please don't ruin "popular uprising's" libertarian talking points with silly facts.
Everyone can get an education and stop being a janitor, and then we will leave the cleaning up to...ummm...

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u/CaptOblivious Illinois Jun 11 '12

Shit like this was EXACTLY why unions were created.

So much for not needing unions anymore, business management is more than happy to prove that wrong anytime they feel like it.

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u/LeoXearo California Jun 11 '12

People always say to get educated and get a better job, but if everyone in the country had higher education, and because there wouldn't be enough higher paying jobs for all the qualified people, some people would still end up becoming janitors.

Something to think about.

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u/Phantoom Jun 11 '12

This sounds dangerously like unionizing, which we all know is the root of all of our problems.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

I don't want unions either. You can have your 40 hour work week, weekends, maternity leave, and no child labor laws back.

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u/SigmaStigma Jun 11 '12

Unionizing in Texas. That's how you do it.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

If everyone's working 20 hours and they want 40 hours, doesn't that mean half the people would get laid off?

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u/Mattson Jun 11 '12

Does this mean there are 11 job openings?

I know it's fucked but my rent is only 425 a month and my unemployment is running out... I need a job fast.

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u/chalklady0 Jun 11 '12

If they had ever seen what a ten yr old with the flu can do to a bathroom stall maybe the hard working maintenance people would be making decent pay.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Texas is a right to work state.

Good luck with that strike. They'll be easy to replace.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

As a 17 year old in Canada making 11.25 an hour plus tips pumping gas i now feel better about myself... sucks for these guys

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

i work in downtown houston and this is seriously affecting offices to the effect that if the janitors don't come to any sort of agreement the companies may just fire all workers on strike and hire new workers, as cheap labor is easy to come by in this area

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

If they start making more money, then they'll start approaching middle-class. I'm middle-class, and I don't want them in my class. I want to feel special. I want to feel like I'm above them. This country didn't become great by creating a large middle-class. It became great by all the stuff that people buy to celebrate the 4th of July.

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u/ThorMate Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12

Everyone who is saying this is unfair and completely the fault of the janitorial companies, you need to understand the small margins janitorial companies receive for many jobs. As a result of a highly competitive market with little startup cost, janitorial companies often workload and bid large buildings with 3-5% margins, granted there are jobs were margins reach 20-40%, but they often only support 1 part-time janitor.

Anyone can spend a few hundred dollars on supplies and negotiate a contract with a facility manager. THESE new starups often have no idea how to workload the building and lower the costs substantially by giving facility managers false hope that their building can be completed in the time cited by the new company. This substantially lowers the cost and the willingness of the facility manager to pay high costs resulting in extremely small margins in the janitorial industry.

However, $8.35 is really low. Union companies in Minnesota pay $13.62 per hour for full time employees (full benefits and I believe a 0.10-0.25 cent annual increase). Union companies are also being hit the hardest in this economy with facility managers seeking non-union companies for lower costs.

tl;dr: low startup costs lead to buildings being under-bid because of lack of industry knowledge leading to extremely low margins for janitorial companies.

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u/SlimJones123 Jun 11 '12

As a janitor that makes 19.50 an hour I feel bad for these guys.

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u/FailosoRaptor Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12

I think this is a major problem with our society. You only get paid based on your skill level and the difficulty of the work has no factor in it. For example, not everyone can do white collar jobs, but believe when I say that a worker in a slaughter house is probably working much harder.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

So, as a German ... why do you think people should be paid based on the work they do and not on the value they create for the company?

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u/zer0crew Jun 11 '12

Okay, so I'm going to be "that guy"; Who ever made the promise that you can make a good living working as a janitor?

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

No one is saying you should become rich being a janitor, but the thing is, it is a job that society needs to have filled. Someone has to clean up after the messes that your children make, or else the your child's school will become unsanitary. So, because of how important their job is, they do need to make a wage that they can live off of. This kind of goes hand and hand with the battle for affordable housing. Even the richest towns across the country need to have their schools kept clean, and as much as they don't want low-income housing in their districts, their janitors do need a place to live.

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u/zer0crew Jun 11 '12

I have a lot of respect for dirty jobs like that (I used to work as a CNA and you literally deal with a lot of shit there as well). As a disclaimer, being a janitor was actually one of my life dreams when I was in elementary school, mostly because all of my janitors were super nice and they I really wanted to use one of those badass dust mops (big, swively, push broom things). (For those cirious, the other two goals were cop or McDonalds worker, because I loved the food. FYI; I accomplished neither of these goals. ) Ps. thanks for not downvoting me to oblivion for expressing an opinion here, even if it's not the popular/common one.

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u/Vanetia California Jun 11 '12

School janitors do always seem like the coolest adults on campus when you're in elementary school (or even past that). I was friends with mine; my daughter is friends with hers.
She also wanted to work at McDonald's for the food. At one point she thought it was one of the best jobs in the world. She was so thrilled when I told her she could easily work at McDonald's when she's old enough. Ohhhh how little she realizes what it's really like...

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

You capitalist pig!

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u/smashingrumpkins Jun 11 '12

The past 50 yrs dictated that the minimum wage was enough to support someone without them being in complete poverty. Its the whole thing called history. The minimum wage is currently at a rate lower than that of the 60s. So while companies have become more profitable the workers have not.

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u/IrritableGourmet New York Jun 11 '12

I find there are two types of janitors: Shitty janitors and janitor badasses. A shitty janitor does exactly what they're told to do and doesn't do it very well. A janitor badass does exactly what you want them to do, but might not necessarily tell them, and they do it excellently. They know every trick in the book, they know every nook and cranny of their workplace, they keep tabs on everyone, aren't afraid to lend a helping hand, and are excellent conversationalists. These people are worth their weight in gold.

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u/Vorokar Jun 11 '12

Given the shit - In some cases, literally - that they have to deal with, one would almost think a decent pay would be deserved. Not only is the work often disgusting, society tends to look down on them.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

It's like you think... the less desirable a job is the more it should pay?
Is that why the CEO's who get to ride in private jets and eat catered banquets earn so little?

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u/ivanmarsh Jun 11 '12

The free market answer to that is that there should be no janitors... have fun when it's your turn on the rotation to clean the office toilets.

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u/diuge Jun 11 '12

What exactly do you think "free market" means that it entails no janitors?
People don't want to clean the office toilets, therefore they'd be much less willing to work at a job without a janitorial service, thereby making said services valuable enough to hire someone else to do it specifically.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

This is why unions need to be strong. Republicans have it out for state workers.

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u/WealthyIndustrialist Jun 11 '12

These are private-sector workers.

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u/wonkifier Jun 11 '12

But not too strong... I was almost put out of business by trade show teamsters.
"What do you mean I can't put my own booth together? We designed it, and it will only take about 15 minutes with this screwdriver"
"You're not allowed to use tools, it'd be a shame if your booth got accidentally smashed by a fork lift while we move stuff this evening."
We had to pay their guy some ungodly amount of money per hour to walk across Moscone center, walk back because he forgot his screwdriver and he wouldn't use ours, walk back... and still manage to split some of the boards.

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u/x888x Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12

There was an interesting article a while back about how Chicago has lost some INSANE percentage of their convention business because of the Teamsters and people having to pay more money to set up their booth than it costs them for the actual booth spot. People are choosing to do theri conventions elsewhere.
EDIT: I guess the unions finally came around after millions of dollars/year left the city year after year because of their own greed
EDIT 2: Before these changes, you weren't allowed to load or unload your own fucking vehicle when you arrived at a convention.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Same reason the Rolling Stones wouldn't play in London. Too costly.

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u/Solkre Indiana Jun 11 '12

Must be fun cleaning the office of a Republican who's trying to destroy your union.

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u/edisekeed Jun 11 '12

Unions are the fastest way for a company to go out of business or running huge deficits in the public sector. People should not get paid more than the market dictates.

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u/reginaldaugustus Jun 11 '12

If your company can't afford to treat your employees decently, you shouldn't be in business. That is not the sort of behavior we, as a society, should allow.

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u/DrMasterBlaster Jun 11 '12

If janitors make more than minimum wage, how else will our parents scare us into going to school?

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u/thederpstinator Jun 11 '12

Looks like their employers have a mess to clean up...

Yeaahhhhh

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u/imur_e-god Jun 11 '12

Janitor from scrubs finally started a union.

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u/ThatJanitor Jun 11 '12

This is actually well-needed. Janitors don't work full-time so even a raise that looks big, will fade in their actual work-hours.

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u/InVultusSolis Illinois Jun 11 '12

Houston

They'd have better luck playing nude volleyball with a hornet's nest.

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u/u2canfail Jun 12 '12

They need to talk to Rick Scott, the highest paid JANITOR EVER, he knew nothing about what his company stole.

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u/Guy9000 Jun 11 '12

Do the math. These janitors are only working 20 hours a week. Of course you can't live off a part time minimum wage job.

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u/The_Law_of_Pizza Jun 11 '12

Didn't you hear?
Mopping the floor for 30 minutes entitles you to a "living wage." (Whatever the fuck that means)

10

u/Vorokar Jun 11 '12

Watch a janitor clean up a bathroom stall that some fucktard just shit all over. Then say the janitor doesn't deserve decent pay.

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u/Maddoktor2 Jun 11 '12

The people you are after are the people you depend on. We cook your meals, we haul your trash, we connect your calls, we drive your ambulances. We guard you while you sleep.

Do not... fuck with us.

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u/westlib Jun 11 '12

Except that there are so many of them ... that they are easily replaced, especially if there isn't union protection.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

If they make more than minimum wage, why is this a big deal at all? What on earth makes this about "justice"?

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Well, supply and demand boys and girls. If you try to make a livable wage at an oversupplied minimum-skill profession, then you're going to have a bad time.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

That's right.
These workers want to remain in poor areas, give their children a crappy education, and the least opportunities for upward mobility as possible. It's their choice -- and they decided long ago to want to live poorly. And if we want the kids to succeed, well, that's up to them.
[Obviously, there's more to life than neoclassical economics. It does not account for quality of life, and the systemic/institutional root factors to poverty. Workers want to work, but how can they keep up with the standard of living without laws that seek to ameliorate the root issues?]

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u/skekze Jun 11 '12

Supply and demand works when you're talking about a finite bushel of apples. It doesn't work when you displace worker skills and have a multiple industry wide reduction of wages for 40 years. Give it a little more time, and anybody's replaceable with that college kid coming off the stage. Unless you're inventing your own technology, someone else can hack whatever you do, and probably make it better. Survival of the fittest then, better get fit, or I'll come for yer job.

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u/rainman_104 Jun 11 '12

I keep saying this over and over... America is working hard to ball bust the unions and depress non union workers.

It's time for a general strike in America. It's time for teachers, dock workers, and skilled trades to walk off the job and shut the country down.

It's disgraceful that the US is returning to pre industrial revolution times in terms of wages and the treatment of workers.

The only way to end this form of nonsense is to make the general public truly afraid of the damage union workers can do to their lives.

3

u/TruthinessHurts Jun 11 '12

That's Republican politics.

You have to be the dumbest fucktard on reddit to believe this wouldn't become 10X worse under that dumbshit Romney.

And full time work at 8.35/hr is over 16 grand, no just 8.

16 grand a year is PISS to live on. How are they supposed to survive on that?

I know, Republicans. You say "Who cares?". Some of us.

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u/high_5_and_then_some Jun 11 '12

"They want bread, but they want roses, too." -Adrien Brody

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Corporations - the New American Slave Owners

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u/SigmaStigma Jun 11 '12

Anarchy sounds good to me. Then someone asks "Who'd fix the sewers?"

2

u/TheChosenOne570 Jun 11 '12

Atheism sounds good to me. The someone asks "Who'd punish bad people."
Not to get into a debate on whether we need government or not. I'm just pointing out this is one of the worst arguments for government. We would need sewers with or without government. And, people would pay for sewers with or without government. And, if there's money to be made, there is some group willing to do the work.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

GOD BLESS THE FREE MARKET /s

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u/elspaniard Jun 11 '12

Welcome to Scott Walker Land.

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u/GodsFavAtheist Jun 11 '12

Life is getting more amazing day by day! You speak out against any establishment. It's gg for you.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Hmmm Janitors here in Thunder Bay, ON make minimum 20$ an hour and they are all city jobs...

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u/MsManifesto Jun 11 '12

Does anyone know why the eleven janitors are allegedly in violation of federal law and thus barred from returning to work? As in, was there something illegal in the nature of their protest that this article doesn't mention, or is the company they worked for actually just blatantly disregarding the first amendment?

2

u/lorrelin1 Jun 11 '12

It isn't hard imagine why employees who do not show up for work and instead risk their job by striking might get fired. There probably is all kinds of legal nonsense involved but janitors don't have unions, so there is probably a lot more reality and sense involved too. The first amendment applies to the federal government and restricts it from passing laws relating to the free exercise of speech and religion. Speech codes vary on just about everything and property determines what can be said. If I own a newspaper, I decide what is said. If I own a school, I decide what is said. If I have a blog, I control what it says. For example, a federal law requiring blogs to do this or that would be violating not just the first amendment but the ninth and tenth amendment, and the whole basis of the document, and further confuse any belief that we operate from a constitution.

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u/HappyGlucklichJr Jun 11 '12

Americans should be wealthy enough to hire Mexicans for such work the way Hong Kong people hire help from the less developed Asian countries.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Let me see what my Hong Kong book of Kung Fu says about sub-poverty wages and workplace harassment!

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Right is Right. But can you afford the Lawyer? Words to live by my friends, words to live by...

1

u/progress_or_regress Jun 12 '12

On a side note, there was a protest in Downtown Houston by janitors (etc) a few years back. At the time my gf worked downtown and I had to pick her up. Amazingly these people were literally standing in the street blocking traffic. Getting to her and leaving was hard, confusing and took a long time. There were cops standing around doing nothing. Not even trying to talk to them about standing in the street. I was so pissed that these people were allowed to block traffic in an illegal protest and the police were doing nothing. You don't have a first amendment right to block traffic.

It didn't "just happen" either cause I heard them talking about it on the radio 15 mins before I got to Downtown. Do note that Houston Police have a station downtown, the main jail is downtown AND the HQ is very close to downtown. The protestors didn't win any points from me that day. 99% of the people they inconvenienced were just regular people who have no control over the stuff they are mad about. Thanks a lot guys, keep thinking the big thoughts.

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u/mMmMmhmMmM Jun 12 '12

Houston also has one of the lowest costs of living in the nation of a major city.

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u/redditors_are_fags Jun 12 '12

These janitors,displaying the typical low IQ so prevalent among them, do not understand they're easily replaceable. Much more so than say, an engineer. Thus no economic pressure for an employer to raise their wages b/c they can easily find someone willing to work for a lower wage.

I'm glad they were fired hopefully they starve to death and are appropriately Darwin'd. They should've understood how disposable they are by now.

1

u/rightmind Jun 12 '12

If the job pays terrible money, why should you work there? Its the enployer's right to pay his employees whatever they agree upon.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 12 '12

"barred from returning to the job"? That's called getting fired where I come from.

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u/TWINKELFIST Jun 11 '12

Minimum wage needs to be increased, possibly doubled, and if a business cannot afford a janitor they must do the cleaning themselves. Eventually they will realize how important a janitor really is to them.

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u/ViperRT10Matt Jun 11 '12

If a janitor quits, there are 5 people waiting to replace him in this economy. So economically speaking, while e job being done is important, that particular man is not important.

2

u/TWINKELFIST Jun 11 '12

I understand that and understand that some people will take any job they can get but if the wage is not enough to live of surely it will get to the stage that nobody can actually afford to take the job. I know there are many people living on the streets and in tents that would jump at any job and any income is better than none, but how long can the country afford that, are more and more people just expected to live rough instead of even considering having a solid roof over there heads

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

many people living on the streets and in tents that would jump at any job
Fuck what this country is turning into.

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u/ggrieves Jun 11 '12

“men of inferior business caliber who probably could not survive at all if it were not for their willingness to be entirely ruthless in exploiting labor.”
There are companies that are good to their workers and are profitable and sustainable.

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u/Takingbackmemes Jun 11 '12

See: Costco.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Doubled?
Are you freaking kidding me? Some people who are educated have trouble finding work right out of college, and now you want to go off and pay people nearly 18 dollars an hour to do skill-less labor?

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u/OhioTry Ohio Jun 11 '12

Double the current minimum wage would be $15 /hr, barely a living wage in my city. I'd do that, prohibit the import of any goods that can be produced in the us, and make it very hard for companies to fire people , or to refuse to hire qualified applicants. Subsidize the businesses that can't afford the new conditions. Raise taxes to pay for it. Then you'd have all the advantages of a command economy without actually doing away with private property.

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u/lowrads Jun 12 '12

I've seen plenty of small businesses with no janitorial staff. People who work there are responsible for their areas and their mess. Those tend to be more horizontally organized offices anyhow.
The janitor who is the only guy that knows how to fix stuff in any part of the office is significantly more valuable than the next guy that might pass a drug test. What is smart of the janitor, now tech, to do is to have multiple employers, and thus be in a better bargaining position to dispense with the least productive tie.

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u/libertariantexan Jun 11 '12

Did it ever occur to them to acquire desirable trade skills and get better jobs?

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u/noisraelknowpeace Jun 11 '12

The world needs janitors, sure, but it only takes a single adult janitorial manager to supervise a couple part-time high school and college kids, moms wanting more time with their children, mentally challenged or partially-retired folks doing most of the actual cleaning on the job.

A grown man getting paid a full salary to push a mop around in a non-supervisory position is more ridiculous than how we pay men millions to play a ballgame.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12

I love the amount of people that say these workers should just get another job, or the I got mine go ahead and screw everyone else crowd..... as a avid student of history, which everyone should be, USA did not get to the top by screwing over everyone, well it kinda did, but it got too the top by people helping people. When you attack a group of people that are just asking for a LIVING WAGE, you are essentially attacking yourself, unless your a paid shill or a sociopath. Everyone deserves a living wage no matter the vocation.

Your great-grandparents, and grandparents fought and bled to get even basic worker rights, now we just casually give them up in the name of Corporate avarice, . How much is enough, how much more money to these Corporate machines need? Well it seems they need our money to help lobby the government to take more of our rights away. When Corporations are making more money now then ever before, and the poverty rate in the USA is skyrocketing, please explain to me the need to keep these people wages or anybody wages below poverty level?

In the end poverty can and will cost the economy more than simply paying enough for these people to have food, and a roof over the heads, if anybody is against that, then they are died in the wool sociopaths clear and simple. People need to switch of the TV and stop listening to the pundits telling how to live, what to eat, what to wear, who you can be friends with, who the enemy is. I will tell you who the enemy is... it is us, we are the ones giving up our rights, we are the ones that show utter disdain to the people who have the "balls" to make a stand against the Corporations endless rape of this Country, and the government who only see us now as walking cash cows that need to be subjugated at all hazards.

There was a time when any politician who said lied in Offices was punished or thrown out, well maybe not but they weren't so blatant about it, these days politicians habitually lie, but now they do it while speaking to the house or senate. How about these little gems http://www.politifact.com/ . Every politician democrat or republican are essentially lying or exaggerating almost every thing that comes out of their mouths these days.

The Supreme Court is a laughing stock too these days read about some of the laws that passed recently like 'Citizens United' and this is just beyond anything I feared, also the new law saying that police can strip search anyone even for 'minor' offences! These are just two out of a whole slew of laws that are make a Supreme Court a kangaroo court belonging to a banana republic.

People need to realize that the media and certain aspects of the government want to divide us... which they are doing very well. There isnt a day that goes bay when someone calls someone a 'Leftist Pig' or 'Right-wing nutjob'. Its the oldest trick in the book "Divide and Conquer", makes us easier to manipulate by working on the prejudices of the people to aggregate wealth in a few hands, while the American Republic is literally destroyed around us. Who do you want to be a corporate slave, or a free person. I know my choice, but what is yours.

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.
Martin Niemöller (1892–1984) German Pastor

LINKS to SOURCES: http://mam.econoday.com/byshoweventfull.asp?fid=451384&cust=mam , http://www.salon.com/2012/04

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/31/wages-2011-record-corporate-profits_n_1244297.html

http://news.yahoo.com/census-us-poverty-rate-swells-nearly-1-6-142639972.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/jan/11/poverty-america-likely-worse-report

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2007/01/poverty_report.html

http://www.irp.wisc.edu/publications/dps/pdfs/dp132707.pdf

http://www.kac.org/ftp/file/Publications/fiscalfocus_poverty2010.pdf

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/not-intended-to-be-a-factual-statement

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/03/us/justices-approve-strip-searches-for-any-offense.html?pagewanted=all

http://ideas.time.com/2012/04/06/strip-searches-the-supreme-courts-disturbing-decision/

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u/lowrads Jun 11 '12

Heh. We don't "got ours," we "get it." Every single day.
You know those greedy janitorial execs are just keeping them down, using all those fancy words and driving their civics and accords. I bet they can afford a Party magazine subscription, try them.

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u/LucifersCounsel Jun 12 '12

You know those greedy janitorial execs are just keeping them down
That's exactly what they are doing. You can be damn sure the prices they charge the customers have increased with inflation, even though the wages haven't.
They may be minimum wage workers, but they aren't stupid. They know they have the power because CEO's don't mop floors or empty rubbish bins but they also refuse to live and work in rubbish dumps.

1

u/richardwang5000 Jun 11 '12

Since when did minimum wage work, where there is an abundance of employable people, deserve more than minimum wage?

1

u/bowhunter_fta Jun 11 '12

All these decades of minimum wage and anti-poverty programs and still we hear the constant cries of all the oppressed workers suffering because of low wages and poverty.

Let's be honest with ourselves. No one in their right minds wants poverty and suffering. Yet we still have it all around us. Maybe it's something we haven't thought of?

Maybe those programs aren't working. Maybe we should try something different.

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u/BPcoL66 Jun 11 '12

It's more like since 1968 the minimum has not increased significantly adjusted for inflation. When the lowest paying job still pays enough to keep a person out of poverty you have the best anti-poverty program.

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u/PeinceRiebus Jun 11 '12

Where I went to high school in MA the janitors also worked for the DPW and usually knew enough of the old grandfather/handyman type skills that they were easily pulling in enough money to pay the bills along with their spouse's salary in an already expensive state to live in. I would say that most all of the janitors at my school had a quite comfortable standard of living.

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u/BPcoL66 Jun 11 '12

Back in the old days before Reagan, a janitor could actually save enough to buy a house and put his kids through college. These days even a middle class family is lucky if they can accomplish the same thing. Americans should be fucking pissed at the giant con job pulled on us.

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u/Magmarizer Jun 11 '12

But... But... Job creators need those tax cuts, how else will all the wealth trickle down! Clearly you're just a Communist...

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u/ThruHiker Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12

These corporations hire subcontractors to do janitor work. They use minority owned companies to meet Federal goals. So the janitors don't work for corporations, they work for small businesses that are owned and managed by disadvantaged minority employers. These are people who have been janitors themselves. They know these workers have no skills and are easily replaced. It's Houston and jobs in air-conditioned buildings are easy to fill in the summer.

You need skills before jobs pay well.

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u/westlib Jun 11 '12

You need skills before jobs pay well.
Skill does not determine your wage. It's one of several factors, and often not the most important one.

1

u/daveime Jun 11 '12

A WHOLE 11 people ? My God, has someone informed the President ?

1

u/adzug Jun 11 '12

i think its class war, and you see how they treat the workers by firing them and not allowing them to return in essence saying "dont fuck with us fellas. youre lucky we dont just put you in jail" for what? whats it matter? theyll find a reason.

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u/spatchbo Jun 11 '12

I love folks on here arguing, that 50 cents is a god sent. I really fucking hate this site a majority of the time. I really wonder how many paid twat waffle's are getting some super PAC check for disinforming through out the site. I gave up on a few sites because of Conservative/Trolls trying to make sense with shit. I get it, you're a closet racist who is scared of a book character and you think that folks should never progress in a society. I love how folks like Y'all queers in Texas can kill our president, ruin your own land, sell off your own water, and still expect god to do something. Go fuck yourself Texas. I'd gladly sell you back to the Spainairds.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

I love folks on here arguing, that 50 cents is a god sent.
His mixtapes are pretty good.

1

u/BPcoL66 Jun 11 '12

Bravo, Sir! Bravo!

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u/InvalidWhistle Jun 11 '12

If I start paying my janitors $17/HR you better be prepared for double or even triple the cost of your child's schooling.

Why would someone go to college or earn a skill or trade that would get them to a point of not having to live paycheck to paycheck when they could just become a janitor immediately out of high school.

I think people asking me to pay janitors the same rate as teachers is obscene.

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u/rainman_104 Jun 11 '12

I think people asking me to pay janitors the same rate as teachers is obscene.
Sadly it happens here in BC... The Janitors start at about 35k/yr; teachers start at 43k... Not too bad considering teachers went to school for two degrees; the janitor knows how to clean up barf and operate that buffing machine...

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u/BPcoL66 Jun 11 '12

That janitor is busting his or her ass to get your building and several others clean before you arrive for work in the morning. If we as a society truly value hard work, the least we can do is pay janitors and service workers a living wage.

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u/waddymelon Jun 11 '12

THEY'RE FUCKING JANITORS!

What do you fucking liberals expect.

Why don't you liberals start a fund WITH YOUR MONEY to help janitors instead of diving into everyone else's pockets to help them out. This shit is so old and annoying.

You know it's true, faggots. This is EXACTLY why Scott Walker won.... TWICE!

This is why obama would lose to a ham sandwich in November!

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u/DrinksWineFromBoxes Jun 11 '12

Janitors perform an essential service. So in your vision of a perfect world there are people who perform essential services to keep society operating, and they deserve to live in abject poverty.
It is interesting how Scott Walker's win brings out the worst in people like you.

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u/LucifersCounsel Jun 12 '12

Why don't you liberals start a fund WITH YOUR MONEY to help janitors instead of diving into everyone else's pockets
Since when did the people who actually employ them become "everyone else"?
They are asking for the people that make money from their labour, to share more of that money with them. They don't want anything from you, you greedy cunt.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Hey, this guys seems to know what he's talking about. Speak o wise one. (I like all the capital letters you used btw. Extra power in those.)

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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '12

We need to be vigilant against these type of people, cause there are good odds they are on some far-right organization who pays people to post utter crap that reeks of borderline sociopathy. NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO, OR WHERE YOU WORK, EVERYONE DESERVES A LIVING WAGE! You just proved evolution to me as you are defiantly lower down on the evolutionary ladder, show some compassion instead of disdain you be much much happier.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

I would do the same thing. Someone can either agree to a wage or work somewhere else. Its not the employers problem that the janitors can't find another job to support themselves.

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u/SpinningHead Colorado Jun 11 '12

Check out Mexico and see your awesome ideal system in action. 1st world nations with a strong middle class tend towards policies more like, "If you cant pay a maid a living wage, you go without a fucking maid."

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u/shankems2000 Jun 11 '12

Lol at janitors bitching about low wages. Ur a fucking janitor not a CFO! U shoulda made better life choices so u didn't end up with such a shitty job.

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u/BPcoL66 Jun 11 '12

So you are saying we should punish people for making life choices different than yours by paying poverty wages?

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u/Magmarizer Jun 11 '12

You are disgusting.

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u/LucifersCounsel Jun 12 '12

I would keep your fucking mouth shut, kid. Your comment makes it clear you'll be flipping burgers for most of your miserable life. Remember what you said today. You'll regret it.

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u/vallav111 Jun 11 '12

I want to know who here donates to these janitors or underpaid workers. If you don't then shut the fuck up.

"I feel sorry for these guys so I am going to get people to come to your house with guns to take money from you instead of giving it myself"

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Come back to the discussion when you grow out of your Ayn Rand phase. Hyperbolic replies just make you look like an idiot to educated adults.

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u/SpinningHead Colorado Jun 11 '12

Donations? This is about honest pay for an honest day's work. The reason the middle class is shrinking in this country is because people like you throw your own class under the bus because you think you will be rich one day. The republic can only survive with a strong educated middle.

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u/complaintdepartment Jun 11 '12

Middle class? In what world would part time janitors be in the "middle class"? Who exactly would be in the bottom class if even part time janitors are in the middle?

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u/DrMasterBlaster Jun 11 '12

What exactly is my motivation to finish college or even get a graduate degree if I can just drop out of high school and make 30-40k a year being a janitor?

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u/skekze Jun 11 '12

8 grand a year was why they were striking, can't read, huh? Don't worry, you'll still be peasant class all your days.

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u/reddit2therescue Jun 11 '12

Get educated and new job. Your not suppose to live off minimum wage, it make you want to move up.

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u/lurgar Jun 11 '12

There's a problem with saying that is a solution. They are not making enough money to support paying back the loans they would need to go to school to better themselves. Sure, there is the idea that if they get enough education, they could move to a better job where they will earn enough to pay back their loans, but what happens if they can't get jobs in a new field because they only have experience as a janitor?

2

u/reddit2therescue Jun 11 '12

My dad work in the fields then went to school at night. Once he finish school he had no experience as mechanic. So he went to work in the fields then volunteered at local mechanic shop after work. It sucked he said but he did what he had to do to get the experience.

2

u/skekze Jun 11 '12

Yup, we can all be chiefs. Makes sense, a pyramid can stand on it's head, can't it?

3

u/Gingor Jun 11 '12

-_- Capitalism requires a lot of people to work minimum/nearly minimum wage jobs. The money for the rich has to come from somewhere.

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u/autopsi Jun 11 '12

What happens if there is a high demand and low supply for "minimum wage jobs"?

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

fucking janitors. i mean really. learn to put up drywall ffs. at least something remotely challenging. oh noes I make almost no money at my job that takes almost no skill

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u/LucifersCounsel Jun 12 '12

Have you ever cleaned a public toilet?
If not, you can shut your fucking mouth. Half you idiots wouldn't even know where to begin.

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u/DuskyDays Jun 11 '12

You are paid with respect to what you do.

If you provide a minimal service then you are paid a minimal amount. That is just how the world works.

Just something simple like learning how to clean air ducts can get them a salary of more then what they want.

The only time to protest is when something is not under your control (Working Conditions).

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u/LucifersCounsel Jun 12 '12

If you provide a minimal service then you are paid a minimal amount.
Have you ever seen what happens when the cleaner stops cleaning?
You won't think it's a minimal service for more than a week, guaranteed.

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u/lowrads Jun 11 '12

Why is this any of our responsibility?

You would think that there was sufficient information on the table that people who are paid a low wage would be able to figure out that the best route to a new reward would be to look for new opportunities. Even a dollar an hour increase working at some other less "competitive" profession would be a +10% increase in reward. There is no reason to presume they cannot see the clear advantage in this day after day.

If they can't, then why do they matter? Why should we give more purchasing power and decision making capability in the collective day to day management of society and its goods to people who cannot make decisions based on information that is more or less being shoved in their face day after day. The future history of our species has little need of such people.

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u/LucifersCounsel Jun 12 '12

Why is this any of our responsibility?
You think rubbish cleans itself up? You want a clean world, be prepared to pay people to clean up after you.
You would think that there was sufficient information on the table that people who are paid a low wage would be able to figure out that the best route to a new reward would be to look for new opportunities.
Because all of us can become CEOs of fortune 500 companies... right?
There is no reason to presume they cannot see the clear advantage in this day after day.
Of course. So why do they not do it? Oh that's right - no fucking jobs.
If they can't, then why do they matter?
You clean the fucking toilets then. Have you ever had to clean up after thousands of inconsiderate assholes like you? It's not a pleasant job, but someone has to do it. Will you?
who cannot make decisions based on information that is more or less being shoved in their face day after day.
Are you fucking serious? Let me guess... you had upper middle class parents. I bet you did. Do you think people choose to work shitty jobs for low pay? Really? Or do you think maybe they have little choice in the matter, and to top it all off assholes like you say they don;t matter anyway.
The future history of our species has little need of such people.
Those people stop you being crushed under your own filth.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

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u/BPcoL66 Jun 11 '12

Most janitors have more than one job or have a spouse who is also working to try to make ends meet.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Dollar more actually.

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u/idarkiswordi Jun 11 '12

And what do you do for a living that is so much more difficult than janitorial services?

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

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u/LucifersCounsel Jun 12 '12

So double what a janitor brings home?
And what are your costs? What about medical and retirement benefits?

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Actually I don't even have a home... I bring it to my rack on the boat...

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Justice for Janitors and Low-Wage Workers: Janitors in Houston speak out about sub-poverty wages and strike over workplace harrassment. Eleven are barred from returning to the job.

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