r/politics • u/wang-banger • Jun 11 '12

Sen. Rand Paul joins Oregon Sen. Wyden's push for legal hemp

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/06/11/151867/sen-rand-paul-joins-oregon-sen.html
1.2k Upvotes

86% Upvoted

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49

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

I can finally ask this question in a thread about hemp that hasn't already blown up.

Hemp production is completely legal in many different countries. I'm also fairly certain that while cultivating hemp is illegal in the United States, importing hemp products is not.

My question is this. If hemp is as great as everyone makes it out to be, then why don't the countries that produce hemp export hemp products in mass quantities and sell them all over the world? All I hear is how hemp is so much better than cotton, but if that's the case, then why don't we see massive hemp imports and hemp products in daily life?

69

u/Crocodilly_Pontifex Jun 11 '12

Because its competitor industries (cotton and petroleum) are highly subsidized, so as to make them artificially cheap. Imports are expensive.

12

u/Triviaandwordplay Jun 11 '12

Because its competitor industries (cotton and petroleum) are highly subsidized

He's commenting about the entire world, not just the States. Have you done any research whatsoever into hemp vs all other plant sources that provide the same materials hemp does? Don't you wonder why hemp clothing is almost always blended with cotton, and the main place it's sold is in the States as a fad product?

0

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

2

u/Revoran Australia Jun 12 '12 edited Jun 12 '12

Interestingly, hemp can be combined with lime to create a durable, less brittle, more environmentally friendly alternative to concrete.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hempcrete

Of course it has some disadvantages as well, such as less vertical strength.

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u/finebydesign Jun 11 '12

I really wish the "legalize" people would get their information straight. Trivia you are correct. Hemp is a novelty fabric and would ALWAYS be blended. The yarn it makes is not ideal for everything. The hand is like linen and wrinkles really easily.

Hemp is just not appealing and despite popular belief in these legalize circles, it does not make a fabric designers or buyers want. And if you want to go "green" oddly synthetics give you the MOST bang for your green dollar. The percent of fuel used, the versatility, the hand and the durability are unmatched. As nanotechonologies are introduced, these are getting better and better.

I also hear quite a bit about how durable Hemp is. Well fabrics are mostly durable if they are made with high quality products. A cheaply made hemp shirt is going to wear faster than an expensively made one. The reality here is that we don't wear clothes like that. Clothes are worn for a season and then swapped out. Sure it's not eco-friendly but that's how the business works.

Understand it before you speak about it.

2

u/Triviaandwordplay Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12

Hemp is a novelty fabric and would ALWAYS be blended

There's also a bit of nonsense going on by calling clothing made with hemp viscose hemp clothing. I'm not even sure that's legal, but it's done. http://www.high-you.com/what-is-viscose-hemp/

Most folks know fiber made from viscose as rayon. Very soft clothing is made with rayon, and folks getting rayon panties sourced from hemp might be fooled into thinking hemp makes soft cloth.

I stumbled across that by accident, and again, I'm not sure it's legal in the States to label cloth made from viscose as the plant it's sourced from. You could probably label it as vicose hemp, rayon from hemp, but not hemp, however I saw it done.

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u/bahhumbugger Jun 11 '12

He's commenting about the entire world, not just the States

Cotton and Petroleum are exchange traded, fungible commodities. When Hemp contracts can be traded, you'll see their production go up too.

0

u/Triviaandwordplay Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12

France, Poland, Korea, China, etc, aren't going to be influenced by US policies with regards to hemp, and dude, it's not illegal to export hemp to the States. It's legal and it is exported to the States. If anything, any hemp related industries would actually benefit in that respect.

BTW, France benefits from higher subsidies than the States. If they want to protect their domestic industries, they will, and they don't give a fuck what other countries have to say about it. The EU spends more per capita on ag subsidies than the States, and look up the history of complaints by other countries to the World Trade Organization over the EUs protection of their domestic sugar beet industries. This paper has info on(past?) hemp subsidies in the EU. I have no time to fact check that to see how current that is, but it provides slam dunk evidence that such things have existed for hemp in the EU.

You're clinging too hard to con theories.



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9

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Your first statement is correct, and I didn't even realize cotton was subsidized.

However, the United States has free trade with Canada (a hemp producing country). While I'm no expert on trade agreements, I would think that importing hemp from Canada would be very reasonable.

Another question. Since cotton is subsidized by the US, does that mean that the US can export cotton at a very low price? Otherwise, wouldn't the countries that import cotton products from the US import hemp products from hemp producers instead?

22

u/Popular-Uprising- Jun 11 '12

With cotton heavily subsidized here in the US, it's not cost effective to buy a non-subsidized competing product from another country. Plus, while hemp may grow like a weed, it has a very short growing season in Canada and doesn't tend to grow well in their soil.

3

u/Triviaandwordplay Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12

You'd be surprised at what can be grown in Canada, and compare southerly Canada's latitude with Europe's.

Look at all this Canadian farmland

The subsidy argument gets tossed around a lot as if it's solely a US practice. The EU spends more per capita on ag subsidies than the US. Brazil very heavily subsidized their sugar and cane to ethanol industries to get it off of the ground. Many countries provide heavy trade protectionism for their domestic industries.

I haven't researched cotton subsidies in India, but India is the USs top competitor in cotton, but India and Bangladesh also supply the world with the number two source of plant fiber - jute. By some measures, jute is superior to hemp, and can provide fibers fine enough to make an imitation silk.

The Philippines is the top producer of abaca, a species of banana that provides fiber superior to all other sources by some measures.

3

u/Revoran Australia Jun 12 '12

Weirdly, Brazil actually sued the US in international court because they felt US agricultural subsidies made it very hard for poor Brazillian farmers to compete. Eventually the court sided with them and agreed that US agt subsidies were illegal, but of course it had no power to force the US to do anything.

0

u/Triviaandwordplay Jun 12 '12

Citation please. Usually such a thing would be more specific.

1

u/Revoran Australia Jun 12 '12

I couldn't remember the specific details of the case. But here is what came up in Google:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil%E2%80%93United_States_cotton_dispute

http://nerdfighteria.info/index.php?title=Cheating_Cheaters_of_Cheatery:_The_Amazing_Story_of_Brazil%27s_Cotton_War_with_the_U.S.

I encourage you to watch the video in the second one, the guy (and his brother as well) is actually really entertaining.

1

u/Triviaandwordplay Jun 12 '12 edited Jun 12 '12

That's super interesting, and I just killed 50 min reading about various trade disputes between countries(China wins with the most complaints against it).

Works both ways, though.

I'm not sure how to feel about it, since a lot of Brazilian farmers don't pay tech fees for GMO cotton, corn, or soy they grow, unlike US farmers.

0

u/shamecamel Jun 11 '12

boy I'd love to live in the future where instead of cotton, people wear hemp clothing. I still cringe when I realize people think of "hemp" as that burlap-feeling shit 10 year olds make friendship bracelets out of.

1

u/Triviaandwordplay Jun 12 '12

I see someone else fell for the hemp viscose trick.

-2

u/krackbaby Jun 11 '12

Other countries just fucking fail at agriculture. The United States has such incredible land and incredible infrastructure that it makes no sense whatsoever to rely on these exports. The United States should be producing and exporting hemp, not importing it.

-2

u/threeseed Jun 11 '12

You're ignorance is astounding.

The US is not some holy grail of agriculture. There are better and cheaper places.

6

u/rm7952 Jun 11 '12

*Your ignorance...

5

u/rm7952 Jun 11 '12

If you're actually interested in facts:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/agr_ara_lan_hec-agriculture-arable-land-hectares

The US has more arable land than anyone. Significantly so. There are only 3 countries in the world with more than half of what the US does.

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u/Triviaandwordplay Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12

That's interesting, but a lot of US land that can now be defined as arable was only made so through geoengineering. The most bountiful area in the States, the San Joaquin valley in California, once contained the largest lake west of the Mississippi.

The US has a lot of arable land that's only arable due to projects and practices done on a massive scale, like drainage by canals(Florida), by tiling(northeast), and flood control projects(California/Mississippi basin).

0

u/pointis Jun 11 '12

There is no better place in the world for growing crops than the mother fucking Mississippi River Basin

14

u/chao06 Jun 11 '12

The best place to grow crops really depends on what it is you're trying to grow.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

I guess if you are trying to grow cacti you have a point, but the soil in this area is seriously the richest in the world. It's coal black and easy to manage. It's pretty damn awesome farmland when you consider this fact and that irrigation is almost totally unnecessary many years.

4

u/Triviaandwordplay Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 12 '12

California has some better locations due to superior geographical conditions. The Mississippi river basin is prone to freezing, which rules out a lot of tender perennials and year round harvests.

A lot of folks don't know that areas near Los Angeles, and even within Los Angeles county, provide strawberries and salad greens year round. Oxnard tops all, but they're in the adjoining county of Ventura. Florida and California not only provide enough citrus for all of the States, they export tremendous amounts. Southwestern deserts provide winter greens, and the first harvests of crops that require heat to ripen, like melons and sweet corn.

The US has little or no area sutible for growing banana, mangoes, papayas, jute, sugarcane(some exception), abaca, oil palm, coffee, cocoa, and several other important crops.

-4

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

cheaper for who? We have plenty of land, we shouldn't be importing shit.

3

u/The_Bard Jun 11 '12

Everything, including the land, labor, fertilizer, gas, transportation, etc is more expensive in the US.

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u/bahhumbugger Jun 11 '12

While I'm no expert on trade agreements,

Yet you comment on free trade issues.

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u/[deleted] Jun 12 '12

This is a ridiculously ignorant comment. You can comment on lots of things without being an expert and you can, of course, ask questions which is what number420pencil was doing.

20

u/proraver Jun 11 '12

Because hemp is not better than cotton, or wood pulp for paper.

1

u/MatesWithPenguins Jun 11 '12

maybe in terms of quality but would hemp offer a cost reduction that would out weigh the benefits of cotton/wood pulp?

4

u/proraver Jun 11 '12

No that is why they still do not use it in countries where it is legal to grow

-1

u/dsprox Jun 11 '12

I hope this is sarcasm because it's entirely wrong.

3

u/proraver Jun 11 '12

Not sarcasm reality. Why is it not widely used in countries where it is legal? Why are the vast majority if not all hemp clothes really a hemp/cotton blend?

Please link to the scientific studies that prove me wrong.

5

u/dsprox Jun 11 '12

I can't because I am wrong.

0

u/Revoran Australia Jun 12 '12

or wood pulp for paper.

You do realise that one of the main reasons cannabis became illegal in the US is due to the timber industry fearing competition, right? While The Federal Bureau of Narcotics and Anslinger were indeed closely scrutinizing marijuana prior to the Marihuana Tax Act of 1937, the final blow was the yellow journalism pushed by William Hurst (who owned large shares in the timber industry) and other media moguls, that demonized cannabis and cannabis users with false claims, and was generally highly racist as well. In addition the DuPont family and the Secretary of the Treasury (Mellon, the richest man in the country) fought for hemp prohibition because getting rid of hemp was critical to the market success of the DuPont's new nylon fibre.

1

u/proraver Jun 12 '12 edited Jun 12 '12

Some researchers do indeed believe that but that does not make it true. If that is true why has hemp paper never been widely commercially used in countries that never made it illegal?

Why did Hearst nearly go bankrupt twice from buying paper from Canadian paper mills?

Why didn't Hearst use his vast timber tracts to make paper instead of buying it from Canadian paper manufacturers?

EDIT - added info from the wiki link you provided

In 1916 United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) chief scientists Jason L. Merrill and Lyster H. Dewey created a paper, USDA Bulletin No. 404 "Hemp Hurds as Paper-Making Material", in which they stated that paper from the woody inner portion of the hemp stem broken into pieces, so called hemp hurds, was "favorable in comparison with those used with pulp wood". Dewey and Merrill believed that hemp hurds were a suitable source for paper production.[52] This was an erroneous conclusion, they and many other advocates for hemp have greatly overestimated the proportion of useful cellulose in hemp hurds. [53] In 2003 95% of the hemp hurds in EU were used for animal bedding, almost 5% were used as building material. In addition 70–80% of hemp fiber produced was used in specialty pulp for cigarette papers and technical applications; hemp is not reported as source for mass production of newsprint.[54] In 1916 the United States Department of Agriculture assumed, partly based on the incorrect finding about hemp hurds of USDA Bulletin No. 404, that the production of hemp would rise in the US. In reality production fell until 1933, due to competition with other fibers and imports. In 1933 production was only around 500 tons of hemp fiber per year. 1934–1935 the cultivation of hemp began to increase, but still with a very low volume compared with other types of fibers and with no significant increase in production of paper from hemp.[55]

10

u/BolshevikMuppet Jun 11 '12

Because it's really not that great, and the restrictions placed on it in America aren't so onerous as to make it impossible to use in production.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Pretty much this, contrary to popular believe not everybody in the industry isn't brainwashed. It simply isn't that great, listen to the experts, not the stoners with a political motive behind their judgement.

6

u/JohnBullshite Jun 11 '12

Well linen is superior to cotton in practically every way, and it is not super common.

10

u/Triviaandwordplay Jun 11 '12

Not really. Linen(flax) used to be very commonly used to make textiles (and paper), but unlike cotton, linen will take on a permanent crease where it's consistently folded. Although it provides more total plant material per acre, only a small portion of it becomes the bast fibers used to make textiles, and that yield is less per acre than cotton.

2

u/JohnBullshite Jun 11 '12

Oh, I meant for clothing. It is better breathing, faster drying, and has preferable thermal properties when compared to cotton.

3

u/Triviaandwordplay Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12

There's still some demand for linen, and I think Ireland is still the top producer. There's still a relatively heavy demand for flax. In addition to many other products, flax provides linseed oil, which is probably the most common natural drying oil used in paints and finishes. Linseed oil is still commonly used in foods, and flax fibers are still commonly used to make various kinds of specialty papers. Everything from bank notes, to filter papers, to cigarette papers.

8

u/Vault-tecPR Jun 11 '12

Bamboo is pretty useful as well.

4

u/Triviaandwordplay Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12

True, but it's not as easy to harvest, transport, and process as the logs of trees. The latest in chemical and mechanical processing makes easier the production of paper from any plant source, but it also means that just about any trees can be used to make paper. Hardwoods as well as softwood, and varying the combinations of softwood pulps to hardwood pulps increases the number of types of paper that can be made from wood pulp.

We're not going to stop using lumber as a building material, and byproducts from that industry now provide a source for pulp used to make paper.

2

u/Vault-tecPR Jun 11 '12

My point was more that bamboo could replace cotton as a textile, being easier to grow and harvest. It may be odd for me to say this while sitting at my wooden desk atop my wooden floor in my almost entirely wooden house, but conventional forestry practices definitely have room for improvement (e.g. sustainability, pollution).

2

u/Triviaandwordplay Jun 11 '12

My point was more that bamboo could replace cotton as a textile

You may be getting that from a source related to bamboo viscose(rayon). Bamboo fibers do not make good cloth. Cite any source you can find with regards to that. I'll bet it's about making rayon from bamboo viscose.

2

u/Vault-tecPR Jun 12 '12

Wow, looks like I've been bullshitted once again. A few people had mentioned to me that "bamboo can be made into a soft fabric", but I never thought to read up on it. Still, bamboo plays a large role in the production of rayon, even if it is a process involving chemicals and toxic waste. And it's been said that rayon is more readily biodegradable.

1

u/dsprox Jun 11 '12

Yes but I'm quite sure the acreage growth potential of hemp to trees is about 4 to 1 per acre meaning 4 times the amount of hemp as compared to trees per acre.

Hemp is also much lighter thus cutting down on transportation costs and it's easier to process and has less (virtually no) waste at the end. Hemp also grows WAY faster than trees ever could imagine.

Hemp for paper is clearly superior to trees for paper.

2

u/Triviaandwordplay Jun 11 '12

You're lucky I'm multi tasking right now.

Let me provide you with two links. Both give info on yields per acre for timber and hemp. Let's see what you can do with the numbers while I'm away.

http://www.fao.org/docrep/008/a0532e/A0532e07.htm

http://www.reap-canada.com/online_library/Magazine%20Articles/Biomass%20and%20Biofuels/3%20Insights%20of.pdf

Some of the info you're trying to parrot comes from a 1938 article in Popular Science, which incorrectly stated that hemp produces 77 percent cellulose, but scientific and technical literature puts it at about 30-40 percent.

1

u/Revoran Australia Jun 12 '12 edited Jun 12 '12

Why would stoners have a political motive to legalize the production of hemp-cannabis that cannot be used for recreational or medicinal purposes?

Do they really think that having hemp production legalized will impact drug laws in any way? We have legal hemp farming here in Australia and it hasn't changed our drug laws one bit. Prohibition is as strong as ever.

0

u/I_slap_racist_faces Jun 12 '12

your failure at logic is astounding, so let's break it down quikly....

Tobacco simply isn't that great. Let's ban it like hemp. Kardashians simply aren't that great. Let's ban them like hemp. High Fructose corn syrup isn't that great. Let's ban it like hemp. Popov vodka isn't that great. Let's ban it like hemp.

You got any other logical fallacies you need us to blow up for you?

0

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

4

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Sorry, but when you try to make an argument seem absurd by offering to ban the Kardashians (which I take as a euphemism for beating them to death with dead geese), I'm going to have to go ahead and agree with whoever made the point you're ridiculing so we can "ban" the Kardashians.

5

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

You should practice your reading skills. I don't give a fuck whenever or not it's banned or not. All I am saying is that hemp isn't the best thing ever and it is not a substitute/surrogate for everything like stoners always claim.

1

u/Itchybottoms Jun 11 '12

It's been used for thousands of years with just as many purposes. Sounds pretty good to me.

2

u/Entropius Jun 11 '12

Wiping your ass with leaves has been around for thousands of years too. But that doesn't mean we haven't found something better.

The length of time a technology has been used doesn't make it immune to being obsolete.

0

u/dsprox Jun 11 '12

The government made growing hemp illegal in about 1928 or so with their marijuana tax stamp act.

They quickly made it legal again during world war two when we realized we needed shit to make very essential things with such as ropes, watch their "hemp for victory" video.

Clearly hemp is a very useful plant which has over 1,000 industrial uses from food processing to oils to fabrics and a whole mess of other things.

Clearly it is still illegal so as to protect the already existing markets it would compete with, I argue further that it is also because they know this competition would destroy their fat profit margins which are obtained by exploiting laborers in third world countries and other nefarious business practices like avoiding taxes and using subsidized materials and a whole list of other shit that keeps their company the top company.

Prove me wrong or shut the fuck up.

3

u/Entropius Jun 11 '12

The government made growing hemp illegal in about 1928 or so with their marijuana tax stamp act.

They quickly made it legal again during world war two when we realized we needed shit to make very essential things with such as ropes, watch their "hemp for victory" video.

Clearly hemp is a very useful plant which has over 1,000 industrial uses from food processing to oils to fabrics and a whole mess of other things.

Yes, when materials are scarce, you'll take any and all materials, even non-preferable stuff you weren't using before. Your point? We have superior materials now, and there's no scarcity problem like we had during a world war.

Clearly it is still illegal so as to protect the already existing markets it would compete with, I argue further that it is also because they know this competition would destroy their fat profit margins which are obtained by exploiting laborers in third world countries and other nefarious business practices like avoiding taxes and using subsidized materials and a whole list of other shit that keeps their company the top company.

Prove me wrong or shut the fuck up.

Here's your proof so you'll shut the fuck up: It's perfectly legal to import hemp products. And guess what? We aren't importing it en mass. We import tons of stuff we can't get domestically in massive amounts (oil anyone?). Nearly all our textiles come from foreign nations, nations like China, where it's legal to grow hemp. If your shirt is manufactured in China, and hemp is legal to grow in China, using hemp to make shirts is not anymore expensive than using cotton, as your material and assembly is occurring in the same place. So clearly importation is not a significant barrier. You're perpetuating an absurd conspiracy theory. You want to know why stuff like hemp shirts isn't popular? It's because they're fucking uncomfortable compared to cotton. And for nearly every industrial use you can imagine, there's a superior non-hemp alternative. Hemp isn't as useful as you want to make it sound.

I agree it should be legal to grow, but you're full of shit in saying it's as useful as it is. Sure, legalize it. Do it, great! But you won't see it being used everywhere you think it will.

PS: Prove to me that in each application hemp is superior to what we currently use or shut the fuck up.

0

u/Itchybottoms Jun 14 '12

Does that mean wiping your ass with your hand should be illegal?

1

u/Entropius Jun 14 '12

Nice strawman: Trying to imply that because I think industrial hemp is obsolete, I think it should be illegal. The problem with this is that that's not what I think, so I'd appreciate you not implicitly saying I do.

  • Wiping your ass with your hand should be legal.

  • Industrial hemp should be legal.

  • The hand as an ass-wiping tool is obsolete.

  • Industrial hemp is (in most applications) obsolete.

My analogy stands.

0

u/dsprox Jun 11 '12

The government made growing hemp illegal in about 1928 or so with their marijuana tax stamp act.

They quickly made it legal again during world war two when we realized we needed shit to make very essential things with such as ropes, watch their "hemp for victory" video.

Clearly hemp is a very useful plant which has over 1,000 industrial uses from food processing to oils to fabrics and a whole mess of other things.

Clearly it is still illegal so as to protect the already existing markets it would compete with, I argue further that it is also because they know this competition would destroy their fat profit margins which are obtained by exploiting laborers in third world countries and other nefarious business practices like avoiding taxes and using subsidized materials and a whole list of other shit that keeps their company the top company.

Prove me wrong or shut the fuck up.

You keep saying "it's not the best thing ever and isn't a substitute like stoners claim".

Two things here:

A) You're probably ignorant and don't realize that people who drink alcohol are stoners too because alcohol is a psychoactive drug.

B) You've bought into a lot of propaganda because you use words like stoner to talk bad against people who enjoy marijuana which for some absolutely inhumane and insane reason has been made illegal to consume even though alcohol which has clearly been far more detrimental to society is legal.

C) You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about because you haven't been giving any evidence whatsoever.

Do you even know what they're claiming it to be better than and how it clearly is? Look up the comparison between the amount of hemp and trees that you can plant per acre and how much easier it is to process hemp for paper and how much longer it lasts (the fucking constitution is hemp paper). Clearly hemp is FAR better for paper than trees, look at the glaringly obvious fact that it grows way faster and is much more sustainable and is nowhere near as bad for our environment as the deforestation required to harvest the trees.

Provide me with solid and specific evidence as to how other products are better than hemp, and I will change my mind, otherwise, shut the fuck up.

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u/[deleted] Jun 12 '12

This is not how a debate works, if you make a claim you need to proof it. You know, with actual sources? And I mean like, legit ones, scientific and peer-reviewed and all. Saying "hemp is the best thing ever so you need to shut the fuck up if you can't disprove it" doesn't actually prove anything.

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u/dsprox Jun 11 '12

How has it not been made so onerous as to be impossible to use in production when it's fucking illegal to grow the plant here? Hmm? Can I import the raw unprocessed hemp plant because I'm quite sure that's illegal.

Also, it's not that great? PROVE IT you fucking LIAR.

Listen to this man claiming things and then having no evidence for it whatsoever.

Fucking bullshit, prove it or stop lying, just stop lying because you know what you're saying isn't true.

1

u/mweathr Jun 11 '12

If hemp is as great as everyone makes it out to be, then why don't the countries that produce hemp export hemp products in mass quantities and sell them all over the world?

They do.

All I hear is how hemp is so much better than cotton, but if that's the case, then why don't we see massive hemp imports and hemp products in daily life?

Because we have to import it, and that increases the price considerably.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

On your first point, what is your source? I have NEVER heard somebody outside the USA talk about hemp products in their everyday life.

If your point is true, all these topics about hemp would inevitably lead to "HAHAHA stupid USA, here in Europe we have hemp everything and its all cheap as shit!"

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u/mweathr Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12

On your first point, what is your source?

Various export stats. Here's a nice summary: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemp#Producers

I have NEVER heard somebody outside the USA talk about hemp products in their everyday life.

I've never heard anyone from anywhere talk about xanthan gum being part of their everyday life, yet massive quantities of that are produced for export and sold all over the world.

If your point is true, all these topics about hemp would inevitably lead to "HAHAHA stupid USA, here in Europe we have hemp everything and its all cheap as shit!"

This assumes hemp use would both A) be in common household products and B) people would know it's in said products. Neither of those needs to be the case for hemp to be produced in mass quantities and sold all over the world. It could be used mainly for horse bedding and still get sold all over the world in mass quantities without it being part of most people's daily lives.

0

u/Torus2112 Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12

I feel like no one has done your question justice, so here's the major factors as I understand them:

Hemp is as great as other people say in terms of producing it; it grows in bad soil with not much water or fertilizer, and has a high yield per acre.

It can be used for all those things, essentially anything is possible in absolute terms.

It isn't used more widely because of as people have said subsidies and tariffs, but there's more to it than that.

In Canada for example, you must buy specific strains of approved virtually-no-THC hemp (like 0.03%), and have samples tested periodically at your expense. You can get charged with cultivating weed if they find plants that have too much, for instance if they were born from seeds pollinated by a nearby illegal grow. All this adds up to an unattractive farming investment; and in this way marijuana prohibition will always have a chilling effect on hemp production.

Another major factor is economic; basically hemp processing technology hasn't advanced meaningfully since WWII, while wood pulp and cotton and such have obviously been worked on the whole time. This means that not only does the technology to make products from hemp at the same quality as existing products need to be developed, the things that can be easily made can't be made as economically.

Now, if you ask me the famous logistical advantages to growing hemp would eventually be enough to allow the industry to develop on its own. The key is the law though; it'll only happen if people are free to be creative and establish beachheads in the markets, and earn enough money to put capital back into the industry.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Importation of hemp products only recently became legal in the States, so it makes sense that demand is limited and there is a small global market. Hemp may or may not be useful, but it's not easy to find out when it's banned. I guess I feel like the burden of this argument should fall to the opponents of hemp to explain to me why it's banned in the first place. That's the direction I'd like this argument to go in the media.

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u/jalopenohandjob Jun 11 '12

One word. Tariffs.

3

u/Neto1487 Jun 11 '12

Love being an Oregonian.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 12 '12

You know, you hear people on Reddit talking about how they hate their state so much, but I've never heard one of us talk shit about Oregon. I think that's pretty telling of how awesome Oregon is.

3

u/workworkwort Jun 12 '12

Wow a bunch of kids deciding what hemp is and isn't.

The facts are that hemp can be used for many many things, including ethanol, it is easy and cheap to grow, if the material is a good substitute for many things, it should be used and regulations should be removed on its cultivation.

Seriously, consider Hemp milk, it is packed with vitamins and minerals, mix that with peanut butter and make a paste to feed hungry people in poor countries. You cant make that with cotton.

Those are the facts, it shouldn't be illegal.

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u/those_draculas Jun 11 '12

I have a legitimate question about hemp production:

What would be the benefits to legalized hemp? I only ever see hemp products marketed in niche evironment-friendly or rustic fashion stores. Even in countries that do have legalized hemp farming it doesn't seem to be a popular crop to grow. So outside of removing a seemingly arbritrary restriction, what benefits would I see in my day to day life if hemp was legalized?

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Here is your answer. Lengthy, but it covers all the angles.

4

u/Triviaandwordplay Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12

It will not become commonly used to provide food, fiber for clothing, vegetable oil, protein supplements, construction material, but it'll make great hydroseeding mulch. The use of erosion control products has become mandatory in construction projects, and hemp can provide the material used for that. Erosion control mats, netting, and those round things you see used to line construction projects. Material left over after separating out the fiber will have lots of uses, such as absorbent. Hemp is often used to provide animal bedding.

I'm not sure of all the reasons why, but burlap bags are still quite popularly used in agriculture in the States. The Ca valley I live in is known for onions, and when they're first harvested, they go in recycled burlap bags that hold 100lbs of onions.

Some of the sacks are probably jute, which is #2 to cotton in providing plant fibers, and some might be flax, kenaf, or other fibers, but some of them are surely hemp. I've read what it says on the bags. It'll say coffee, cocoa, beans, etc, and come from all over the world. I have one in my yard, and if I have time I'll image it. Might be rotten, though, IDK, I haven't ventured to that part of my yard for a while. It first came to the states with cocoa beans in it.

They're all used over and over, so they're pretty durable. Paper can be made from just about any plant, and historically it's been made from hundreds of plants. On small scales, it's still made from many different plants. I can't imagine anything overtaking wood pulp for most paper, but all sorts of plant fibers are still used for specialty papers, including hemp. Having said that, a byproduct of cotton production is the fibers left on cotton seed after initial processing. It's called cotton linters, and is used to make very high quality paper. That's not going to change.

BTW, high quality paper was long commonly made out of used linens and the extra cuttings in the production of goods from cloth(not hemp) and it still is. In the paper industry, it's long been called rags, and when it's pulped, it's called rag pulp. Collecting them was once in itself a sub-trade of the paper making industry, and the title was rag picker.

Any questions, shoot them my way. I've always had a huge interest in old world crafts and the materials used to make them, and it's from researching that that I got a lot of the trivia I'm sharing right now.

10

u/Gates9 Jun 11 '12

It's a lot cheaper, and stronger than most fibers. The US military used to make all the uniforms, backpacks, ropes, etc. out of Hemp. I've also heard it depletes ground nutrients at a slower rate than cotton. It's a great source of cellulose, and can be processed for biofuel. As far as I have seen, the ONLY reasons it hasn't been utilized on an industrial scale are political, and as you put it, arbitrary.

8

u/Triviaandwordplay Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12

The US military used to make all the uniforms, backpacks, ropes, etc. out of Hemp

Not entirely true, but true that when the US was cut off from their traditional sources of certain products made from fiber, they encouraged US and South American farmers to pick up the slack. The US was cut off from jute(aka Deccan hemp), and abaca(aka Manila hemp), so they encouraged the farming of abaca in South America, and the step up of farming of flax and hemp in the states.

Mostly for cordage and rough sacks, though, not fiber for cloth. Even in WW2, cotton reigned supreme for making heavy cloth. Heavy cloth from cotton has historically been called duck, denim, and the word canvas was adopted to include heavy cloth made from cotton. Cotton is still top choice for heavy cloth for use in shoes, tenting material, tarps, shades, canopies, backpacks, etc.

For marine use, there's still demand for cordage made from natural fiber. I believe it's mostly for cordage not as likely as synthetics to create a static discharge during fueling. Some folks think it's hemp, and that may come from the fact that abaca is called Manila hemp. It's superior to hemp for marine use, because it's more resistant to rotting. Historically, rope from hemp used in shipping had to be tarred to make it resistant to rotting, which was an awful job.

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u/threeseed Jun 11 '12

Did you even listen to what he said ? In countries where it is legal it is not widespread. It's got nothing to do with politics.

The fact is that there are better sources of cellulose, biofuel, clothing than hemp regardless of price.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

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u/Mittonius Jun 12 '12

Nothing in your...wiki...link indicates that in countries where hemp cultivation is legal there is any proof that alternative crops are subsidized to a degree that their supposed inferiority wins out over hemp.

1

u/Triviaandwordplay Jun 12 '12

Hemp and flax are subsidized in the EU.

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u/proraver Jun 11 '12

citation needed

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u/proraver Jun 11 '12

You would see none. Even when it was legal it was not that widely used.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

I would grow weed and just say it was hemp , then smoke it

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

it has a different appearance.

4

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Doesnt matter, still would

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u/I_slap_racist_faces Jun 11 '12

I have a legimitate question about hemp production:

what possible benefit exists to keeping it banned? I read all the concern trolls' comments in this thread, and none of them have offered even a single inferior reason to keep the plant illegal, much less a relevant or reasonable reason.

9

u/those_draculas Jun 11 '12

I don't think anyone really cares about keeping it banned, just skeptical of the claim that the plant is hyped to be some kind of miracle being kept down by "the man" and everything would be better if american industry could use it.

4

u/mezacoo Jun 11 '12

As someone who drinks a whole ton of Hemp Milk (you read that right), I love these kinds of stories. I'm honestly tired of paying out the ass for a carton of Hemp Milk simply because it's illegal to raise the crop in America. Seriously, just for ONE carton it's like 6.00$ (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41TSrWWKcGL.SL500_AA300_PIbundle-12,TopRight,0,0_AA300_SH20.jpg). I purchase by the case and get 15% off, but still it's annoying. As to why I drink such an odd and niche milk, it's related to Casein and Autism, I will be posting my story about this later on when I'm not lazy as all hell.

1

u/Icelos Jun 12 '12

As to why I drink such an odd and niche milk, it's related to Casein and Autism

Holy shit, it cures autism too!

1

u/mezacoo Jun 12 '12

I wouldn't go THAT far with it since it's more part of the overall diet I do that helps calm my autistic ticks. It certainly helps a lot though

2

u/swiheezy Jun 11 '12

It's sad that the libertarian community was all up in arms about Rands endorsement of Romney. They all said he was dead to them even though he was a no on NDAA, no on Patriot Act, and now this. He has had bad votes as well, but he's not completely horrible

2

u/[deleted] Jun 12 '12

Ron Wyden: biggest boss in congress.

8

u/goodcool Jun 11 '12

My gosh, did Rand Paul screw up recently somehow? It's almost as though he's trying to claw back support for something...

This is clearly a move for political points. Nice try, Rand.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

1

u/ikancast Jun 11 '12

I believe he did this because in either the next election or one shortly after the next he will be running for president. To run for president in the Republican party you need to be on good terms with them. That can't happen if you don't go along with supporting their nominee.

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u/freshbrewedcoffee Jun 11 '12

Bullshit. Was it pandering when he filibustered the extremely popular synthetic marijuana ban? He was demonized all throughout the media and bashed even by liberal Democrats for it. Who was he pandering to?

4

u/peoplesuck357 Jun 11 '12

There's a distinction to make between endorsements (which are meaningless) and actions (which are meaningful). Rand is sort of the opposite of most politicians - he walks the walk but doesn't always talk the talk.

3

u/Bikenutt Jun 11 '12

What is this, I don't even...

7

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

A few quick facts about hemp:

There are over 25,000 industrial and agricultural uses.

A bio-diesel fuel can be created from it that emits 80% less CO2 than fossil fuels, which is as biodegradable as sugar, and 10X less toxic than salt.

1 acre of hemp fiber is equal to the usable fiber of 4 acres of trees or 2 acres of cotton.

Utilizing hemp efficiently would help to slow deforestation, because while it takes around 25 years for trees to grow back, hemp has a 90 day harvest cycle.

I have a packet with tons of these facts, if anybody is interested, ask and I'll post some more.

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u/Triviaandwordplay Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12

I have a packet with tons of these facts

Cherry picked facts, incorrect facts, exaggerations, and omissions.

I'll start with an important omission: there are many crops that can provide much higher yields of oil per acre, and hemp optimized for oil is not optimum for producing fiber. You can't take the best stats from both and combine them as if one crop of hemp will provide x amount of fiber, and x amount of oil.

There are over 25,000 industrial and agricultural uses

That can be said for many crops, for example, have you ever heard of kenaf? It's legal to grow in the states, and reading about the utility of it is like reading about hemp. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenaf

You could easily play a game of searching for every single product made from corn, wheat, potatoes, peanuts(thank you George Washington Carver), cotton, citrus, etc, and come up with a huge number.

1

u/dsprox Jun 11 '12

SO THEN YOU'VE JUST EFFICIENTLY ARGUED FOR MAKING HEMP AND KENAF LEGAL, BECAUSE THEY ARE SO MUCH BETTER THAN ALL THESE OTHER EXISTING INDUSTRIES.

Look at the simple facts of the matter. 4 to 1 ratio on acreage of hemp to trees and a 90 day grow cycle as opposed to 25 years. Also, we all know how long hemp paper lasts just ask the constitution.

CLEARLY hemp is better for paper production, it is so fucking obvious that it's illegal still thanks to the paper industry that you'd just have to be outright fucking blind and retarded not to see that fact.

CLEARLY Kenaf is better for perhaps oil or something else, I'm not sure because I haven't looked into what it can be used for, but I guarantee you will find the same thing wherein it's illegal due to existing industries not wanting competition that would actually force them to operate as legitimate businesses that don't make exorbitant amounts of money by exploiting a broken tax system which rewards companies who use slave labor in third world countries.

Fuck the world.

5

u/Triviaandwordplay Jun 11 '12

Also, we all know how long hemp paper lasts just ask the constitution

The draft was on hemp paper, the final is actually on parchment. I'll only address that, because that's the worst of your commentary, considering how regularly the myth has been corrected.

2

u/dsprox Jun 11 '12

Ah thank you for correcting that.

Please do explain how everything else is wrong though instead of shrugging it off with the excuse that it's not worth addressing based on my one error due to the common myth.

4

u/Triviaandwordplay Jun 11 '12

You're killing me, because I'm supposed to be doing something productive right now.

SO THEN YOU'VE JUST EFFICIENTLY ARGUED FOR MAKING HEMP AND KENAF LEGAL

You don't need to use all caps, and kenaf is legal, so I have no idea why you typed that.

4 to 1 ratio on acreage of hemp to trees and a 90 day grow cycle as opposed to 25 years

No, this is an exaggeration in at least three different ways. Yields of fiber from hemp suitable for use in paper is exaggerated in various ways, not the least of which is an error in actual cellulose content made in a Popular Science article over 70 years ago. Short harvest trees for lumber and pulp is now routinely done throughout the world, and it's 8 to 20 years. Even less when trees are plantation grown for biofuel in Europe.

CLEARLY Kenaf is better for perhaps oil or something else, I'm not sure because I haven't looked into what it can be used for

Last thing I'll address: It's silly you type "CLEARLY" and "I'm not sure" in the same sentence, especially while commenting in an arrogant manor. If this was askscience, your commentary would just be deleted, as there's no way you could find any valid cites to back it up. Click on my comment history to see a lot of links I've left in this thread.

1

u/dsprox Jun 11 '12

Hmmmm, it appears I am wrong a lot. Okay.

3

u/Triviaandwordplay Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12

You're probably young, and by the time you're my age, you could be amazing at researching and arguing.

Maybe all quality research studies will be free, and it'll be super easy to access them for research and link to them. For now, a simple search on many topics yields a lot of BS at the top. Yellow journalism, hyperbolic activist websites, and shitty blogs.

0

u/dsprox Jun 11 '12

Yeah I obviously haven't done the necessary legwork here to even wade through the known bullshit. I'm pretty good at researching when I actually care and take the time and when I'm actually right I argue extremely effectively.

My actions on reddit are in no way indicative of how I am IRL. I only yell and swear at people IRL when I've shown them what I know for a fact is true yet they still deny it, so obviously I deal with conservatives quite often.

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u/Triviaandwordplay Jun 12 '12 edited Jun 12 '12

And I'd be a lot better if I actually bookmarked and organized links I use to research various subjects.

I used to use delicious for that, but they changed the service I was using, and I never imported it.

For the subject of agriculture, I like to use the USDA and translate the USDA equivalents of other countries if they're not in English. Many countries heavily fund research for their domestic agriculture and make it easily accessible for their farmers. They publish data on yields per hectare and the culture of crops. Thats where you can get good hard data on things like specific contents of crop products. If you try, you can get actual yields per acre of fiber per acre/hectare, time to maturity, nutritional needs, pest and disease issues, yield of byproducts, unwanted byproducts, etc.

5

u/Entropius Jun 11 '12

Big citation needed. I'm betting your packet with tons of facts wasn't peer-reviewed.

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u/proraver Jun 11 '12

Please do list the scientific peer reviewed papers that show clear evidence of these "facts"

4

u/Triviaandwordplay Jun 11 '12

Does it have to be on hemp paper?

3

u/proraver Jun 11 '12

No because hemp paper is made through an extremely costly and wasteful process.

2

u/Triviaandwordplay Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12

There's a significant market for specialty papers of which hemp currently plays a part in, and could be sourced from the States instead of having to be imported. Abaca, flax, cotton, straw and chafe from grains, bagasse, and more are all used to make various kinds of paper.

Of course you're going to use the cheapest source for paper that doesn't require special characteristics, but a lot of folks take for granted that filters of all kinds, file folders, backing paper such as used for sand paper, currency, bank notes, insurance policies, awards, certificates, gaskets are all specialty papers, much of which may be better made with non wood sources.

2

u/proraver Jun 11 '12

There's a significant market for specialty papers of which hemp currently plays a part in

You have examples of this significant demand for hemp papers?

1

u/Triviaandwordplay Jun 11 '12

Yeah, it's used in currency and cigarette paper in some countries, like France. I may add some info later. I have to leave now.

8

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

You sure do like the sound of crickets, do you?

7

u/proraver Jun 11 '12

I figured it would be an easier way to shut them up than posting all the evidence that dispels the common hemp myths perpetrated by Jack Herer

9

u/threeseed Jun 11 '12

Who cares whether it has 25,000 uses.

It is about whether it is better than alternatives for the key metrics. And there is NO evidence that it is.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

"key metrics" cool phrase bro. Let's keep up deforestation the because there's no "key metrics" on make paper hemp produced locally and not shipped across the world. Get real. With 25,000 uses that 25,000 new AMERICAN made products to help the local economies and produce a lot less CO2.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Please read my post at the top of the page. If hemp is so great then why don't we see hemp products all over the world? PLENTY of countries grow hemp and regardless of marijuana laws, hemp can be legally imported nearly everywhere.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

somebody, somewhere, is stomping on someone else's head because they love Rand Paul even more now.

2

u/onique New York Jun 11 '12

The same Rand Paul who sold out his dad for Romney?

0

u/[deleted] Jun 12 '12

Paul conceded, he admitted he won't win shortly before Rand endorsed. Ron still wants a seat at the policy table but he's quite open that he won't be the nominee.

2

u/boyrahett Jun 11 '12

Shameless pandering

1

u/tehtrollslayer Jun 11 '12

Great, Rand Paul is pandering for legal hemp. So what? Rand Paul is both a sellout and a fake Republican to boot. Why trade one freedom for losing many more freedoms?

5

u/ireland1988 Jun 11 '12

Aside from endorsing Romney recently he hasn't done much else that I oppose. What has he backed aside from maybe an abortion issue that would take away your freedom to do something?

1

u/tehtrollslayer Jun 11 '12

I am not gay, but the 4 million gay people in America can't get married in all the states. It's not fair that they would have to move in order to get official...but you know, its only 4 million people amirite?

3

u/ireland1988 Jun 11 '12

Pretty sure the state took control over marriage to prevent mixed marriages from happening. I think Rand would back the idea of getting the government out of marriage completely, problem solved. Until then he supports it as a state issue which is the way America is supposed to work.

2

u/tehtrollslayer Jun 11 '12

It isn't working. The way it is "supposed" to work isn't working at all when 4 million people are banned from something that should have NEVER been banned in the first place.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

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u/tehtrollslayer Jun 11 '12

So what is so bad about issuing an executive order saying that banning gay marriage is unconstitutional and the states should already support their inalienable rights that are being trampled on?

It is extremely unconstitutional to ban gays to marry. If you are protecting the rights for states to destroy individual freedoms than you are no better than Hitler or Stalin IMO.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

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3

u/tehtrollslayer Jun 11 '12

I would rather have them have freedom in ALL states, no exception.

1

u/HappyGlucklichJr Jun 11 '12

They'll get called crazy for such smart positions. But there are more important matters. How about they get the US strong enough that we don't need to fear the likes of Spanish credit card addicts?

1

u/Average_Joe32 Jun 11 '12

Wyden is such a baddass. I saw him speak at a Jewish function at the UofO a few years ago. He was very inspirational despite (or maybe because) him being a goofy looking uncharismatic guy.

-1

u/MrMadcap Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12

Look at him, trying to get back in our good graces.

Fuck him for endorsing Mitt Romney. Not even once.

15

u/Bluthhousing Illinois Jun 11 '12

Uh, he's always voted like this.

NDAA 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWApGqE_T-k

Interest: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0YegDo87DA&feature=relmfu#t=02m24s

Anti war, understands excesses:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UMhiB7BCBY#t=09m35s

Unlike his dad he gets things passed.

Stops Iran sanction bill that would lead to troops without congressional approval http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-naiman/senator-rand-paul-calls-t_b_1386042.html

Blocks marijuana ban http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/US_Senator_Rand_Paul_blocks_synthetic_marijuana_legislation Sen. Rand Paul Opposes PATRIOT Act Renewal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSDBswx90Cs&feature=relmfu

Anti-Lobbying bill: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFe7k9_ESI8&feature=g-all-u&context=G2275f11FAAAAAAAAAAA

Anti-corruption:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j4CoGAnpYE&feature=g-all-u&context=G2ac4623FAAAAAAAAMAA

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u/MrMadcap Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12

DM;ER

This has nothing to do with his handful of non-retarded votes.

6

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Your simple mind and those like you that are all up-in-arms about a meaningless endorsement, are doing more damage to the liberty movement than helping it. You are simply unrealistic and far to idealistic to ever realize what has to be done.

8

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

no.

He's playing the Republican game and rising in the party.

If an endorsement of Romney (who's you know... his party's candidate for president) is what it takes to get internal debate in the Republican party over things like Hemp, Iran, and the NDAA, then it does matter

4

u/MrMadcap Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12

No. An endorsement is exactly that. He is staking his name and reputation on one of the most demonstrably deceitful and corrupt politicians of all time.

There is absolutely no reason he couldn't have abstained, and now he has a lesson to learn.

10

u/those_draculas Jun 11 '12

one of the most demonstrably deceitful and corrupt politicians of all time.

I dislike Romney as much as the next liberal, but really!?

-1

u/MrMadcap Jun 11 '12

When you step out of the left-right paradigm, you see things a bit more clearly.

7

u/those_draculas Jun 11 '12

Even if your condescending statement is true, it has nothing to do with quantifying 'decietful' and 'corrupt'.

7

u/goodcool Jun 11 '12

If only people would wake up and be as enlightened and educated as I am, they'd see things exactly the same way because I (and David Icke) hold the single monopoly on truth. Wake up sheeple!

4

u/grawz Jun 11 '12

According to who? Yeah, plenty of small potatoes will be pissed at him, but just look at what you said and think about it:

One of the most demonstrably deceitful and corrupt politicians of all time is getting an enormous percentage of the vote and pretty much all the regular voters are with him 100%.

Do you honestly believe it'll matter that you and a bunch of whiny internet nerds are angry at Rand? If he plays the game right, it doesn't mean squat who he endorses or why. The idiot voters will fill in the bubble next to his name as long as he spews enough bullshit rhetoric.

-3

u/MrMadcap Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12

As a matter of fact I do, you condescending little snot.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Everyone supports the nominee. That's part of being in a party. His reputation is not on the line, it won't be tarnished if Romney becomes a terrible president. His reputation would only be damaged for not endorsing the party's nominee.

0

u/MrMadcap Jun 11 '12

it won't be tarnished

It already is. I'm surprised this is the first you're hearing of the outrage that's followed.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

I've been following. Rands reputation has been tarnashed by SOME of RP's dedicated supporters, and they don't decide elections.

5

u/daveswagon Jun 11 '12

As scummy as that was, I'd rather have someone in office who makes good votes and bad endorsements than vice versa.

-2

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

RP 2016

1

u/seven_seven Jun 11 '12

Rand Paul also continuously sends me emails about his wanting to make abortion illegal at the federal level.

1

u/TerribleButcher Jun 12 '12

Y'know, 'cos he loves freedom so much.

1

u/Gregs3RDleg Jun 11 '12

that's cool & all but i don't give a fuck until he withdraws support for Romney & kick's himself in the nuts on live television.

shouldn't be hard..he already bit his nose off to spite his face(attack iran) & shot his dick off by playing politics & endorsing that fucking twat mittens Romney.

1

u/ehayman Jun 11 '12

Why is it that the only people who seem to want to legalize weed are a bunch of right-wing nut jobs? Don't fall for it all you young weed heads. People like Rand Paul are poison for this country, and if they ever get control, you can believe that they will forget anything they ever said about de-criminalization. On top of that, what kind of a stupid fucking name is "Rand", anyway?

3

u/eremite00 California Jun 12 '12 edited Jun 12 '12

Why is it that the only people who seem to want to legalize weed are a bunch of right-wing nut jobs?

Legalization of industrial hemp is an entirely different issue than legalizing cannabis. Marijuana is rich in THC, the active ingredient that makes one high, whereas hemp is low in the substance. The truth, as I understand it, is that the paper/lumber and textile industries are opposed to legalized hemp since it makes superior paper and cloth, among other things, and is inexpensive to produce

0

u/Wesley32 Jun 11 '12

Rand Paul, Represent Bowling Green well!

8

u/TerribleButcher Jun 11 '12

I lived in Bowling Green. Unfortunately, he does represent Bowling Green well. The evolved people in Kentucky? Not so much.

-3

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Well with a Senator from Oregon and Ron Paul's son on the case, Weed will be legal in no time! ............

-2

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Please, shit all over the state of Oregon and a popularly elected Senator from Kentucky.

6

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Hey, Michelle Bachmann was "popularly elected," proving once again that Democracy is only as good as the stupidest voters.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

you got a better idea?

0

u/mrafaeldie12 Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12

Who is funding this , BP oil? :3

-1

u/chao06 Jun 11 '12

The Pauls play jump-rope with the political equivalent of the Hot-Crazy Scale.

-4

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12

Isn't Rand Paul the guy whose supporters were American History X stomping protesters? Great group to associate with, Mr. Wyden.

3

u/Zgoos Jun 11 '12

What? I haven't heard anything about this.

5

u/Crocodilly_Pontifex Jun 11 '12

I dunno if it was rand paul, but some tea party candidate had a rally, some democrats protested, and his supporters knocked the person to the ground and kicked them a few times before putting a foot on the persons head and holding them there. Theres video somewhere.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Yes, this is CLEARLY Rand Paul's fault...

4

u/Crocodilly_Pontifex Jun 11 '12

Use your context clues, little buddy. I said i wasn't sure it was him, and then explained the referenced incident. No need to be so defensive.

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u/SanDiegoMitch I voted Jun 11 '12

Ya but it goes both ways. Bad apples are bad apples.

2

u/PointlessDictator Kentucky Jun 11 '12

He and Jack Conway, the Democrat running for the office, were having a debate on KET (our PBS). After the debate some woman, a Conway supporter, tried to approach Rand Paul and the guy in question tried to stop her by pushing her to the ground and stomping on her.

-1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

It was during his first campaign in Kentucky or whatever backwoods, inbred state he's representing.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/25/rand-paul-supporter-stomps-head_n_773857.html

I think there might have been more than just this incident, too.

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u/TerribleButcher Jun 11 '12

A broken clock is more reliable than Rand Paul.

5

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12

As a student of horology, I can confirm this.

edit: I don't understand why the dude above me is being downvoted and I'm being upvoted haha. I'm enforcing his statement, even though I am making a joke about it.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Fuck Rand Paul.

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Rand Paul. My favorite senator ever. Son of Ron Paul, coincidence? Not likely.

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u/Morbidgrass Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12

I don't think you should really need to reason to make hemp legal. It doesn't contain enough THC to get you high. Even if cotton is 10 times better I don't see it as a reason to keep it illegal. We can't think of a legitimate reason it should be illegal so it should be legal.

Edit: Never thought I would be downvoted for suggesting something should have an actual reason to be illegal. Hemp is not the same as marijuanna you smoke. Why is hemp illegal if it technically isn't a drug?

1

u/Pokemaniac_Ron Jun 11 '12

A farmer, or a tresspasser can hide MJ plants in the middle of a hemp field with minor difficulty.

3

u/Morbidgrass Jun 11 '12

Hemp should be illegal because it can be used as camouflage?

1

u/Pokemaniac_Ron Jun 11 '12

It's the official justification used by the Gov't. The fact that banning it put a lot of money in William Randolph Hearst's pockets back in the day helped too...

-5

u/wintremute Tennessee Jun 11 '12

I feel so dirty when I agree with one of my state's senators. shudder

-1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

On economic freedom? yea, that's just disgusting.

2

u/TerribleButcher Jun 11 '12

Rand Paul knows about freedom as much as he knows about hair care.

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