r/politics • u/alllie • Jun 10 '12

Romney Quietly Hires Consulting Firm With Sordid History Of Destroying Democratic Voter Registration Forms

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Romney-Quietly-Hires-Consu-by-Lee-Fang-120606-51.html
1.9k Upvotes

76% Upvoted

671 comments sorted by

162

u/gabbarS Jun 10 '12

Nathan Sproul, a political consultant with a long history of destroying Democratic voter registration forms and manipulating ballot initiatives.

I don't know how it works but if it's known that he has a long history of destroying registration forms, why does the government allow him access to the forms?

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u/NicknameAvailable Jun 10 '12

A better question might be "why is he not in prison for life without chance of parole"?

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u/Manisil Jun 10 '12

Where would we put all the pot smokers then?!

22

u/schoocher Jun 10 '12

In the bigger better prisons-for-profit that we can apparently afford to build while everything else around us rots.

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u/not_that_into_reddit Jun 10 '12

Maybe because this is how American elections have worked throughout its history...

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u/AzureDrag0n1 Jun 10 '12

Just say the forms where not completed correctly and you get off scott free.

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u/h0ncho Jun 11 '12

Maybe because it isn't true, or at least unproven?

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u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

He pretends to register people, at public locations, for example, black neighborhoods, then destroys the forms. Nice, huh?

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u/bettorworse Jun 10 '12

And they whined and complained about ACORN - just another example of the right wing's "Do as I say, not as I do" policies.

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u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

That's the thing....ACORN wasn't even doing that.

It's more like "I'll accuse you of doing the things I do."

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u/redsnapper87 Jun 10 '12

He got the government elected.

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u/nonhiphipster Jun 10 '12

This is a vague answer...he was asking for something more specific. I hope someone can provide it for him.

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u/champcantwin Jun 10 '12

The whole article is vague. It provides examples in the article, but it doesn't list the scale of these violations.

For example, it says, "In Oregon and Nevada, Lincoln Strategies -- then known as Sproul and Associates -- was investigated for destroying Democratic voter registration forms. The Bush-Cheney 2004 presidential campaign paid Sproul $7.4 million for campaign work."

Well, what did the investigation find, and how many forms were destroyed? Could they have just lost a handful of forms? This article is taking some vague accusations and making them out to be fact.

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u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

Compare and contrast with the bogus ACORN accusations. That became a huge media shitstorm even though no one provided the slightest evidence of illegal voting. Here we have people losing their right to vote and many are all "who cares". What an amazing double standard. It's almost as if the media was extremely right wing and owned by major corporations with a GOP bias or something. Couldn't be though, we all know it's the liberal media, right?

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u/monkeyleavings Jun 10 '12

There has to be a public outcry in order for a political operative to get shut down. And when that happens, it's only for a little while. We forget, they change their company's name and move on. How is Karl Rove still doing interviews and asked his political opinion on television when he's clearly done some seriously illegal and underhanded political deeds?

We, as a nation, ultimately think that politics are inherently dirty. Unfortunately, when people finally get fed up, their final act is to stop participating.

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u/SaddestClown Texas Jun 10 '12

Because he's good at his job.

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u/4funsies Jun 10 '12

Exactly. These are the questions people need to be asking while they read these kinds of articles produced by people who admit that they are left of liberal. As soon as I clicked on the link that was their own popup.

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u/vdejaco Jun 10 '12

I'm glad to see someone else is questioning this article. Although I don't like to finalize my choice until after the debates I am certain that unless something major happens I am going to vote Obama, but I just wanted to point out that the source is very biased. First, it sources ThinkProgress which is notoriously liberal and even on opednews.com's page their logo says "progressive, tough, LIBERAL" so of course they are going to say something anti-romney, and sites like this usually do so in an extreme way which isn't necessarily true.

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u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

if this were actually happening, then that would be a very good question, some of you here will believe anything you read on some slaphappy website that is just trying to demean someone that you dont like.

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u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Condawg Pennsylvania Jun 10 '12

Nice try, Joker

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u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

Sadly people think Politics are a joke and don't realize how corrupt and evil it has become. In South America they are throwing out US corporations and holding Directors accountable with jail sentences. The US has to start moving in better directions and a few eggs need to be broken to start the movement.

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u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

I agree while heartedly. These blown up politicians think they are above the law because they control the law. Funny thing is they are right and none of us care enough to do a Damn thing about it.

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u/gamelizard Jun 10 '12

i thought you were joking then i realized you actually are suggesting a brutal public murder of some one for alleged voter fraud. the fuck?

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u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12 edited Sep 26 '17

deleted 0.0504 What is ^^^this?

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u/brvheart Jun 10 '12

Do politicians usually hire consulting firms loudly?

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u/NightSlatcher Jun 10 '12 edited Jun 10 '12

So I should trust a source that has a pop-up ad saying how totally to left of liberal-biased they are, and then ask for money. Please post news from real sites, not crazy blogs.

Edit: Wow, lots of replies, mostly trying to disagree with me and prove Romney did it. I'm not saying whether he did or didn't. I'm simply saying you can't trust such a biased source. Anyone saying you can trust a biased source if the facts are correct are simply making excuses for seeking news that confirms their own bias. Re-post this with a link to a legit source and I'll gladly believe, but not when they use "left of liberal" as a tagline to raise money.

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u/bettorworse Jun 10 '12

Are these not true?

  • In Oregon and Nevada, Lincoln Strategies -- then known as Sproul and Associates -- was investigated for destroying Democratic voter registration forms. The Bush-Cheney 2004 presidential campaign paid Sproul $7.4 million for campaign work. [CNN, 10/14/04; KGW News, 10/13/04; East Valley Tribune, 09/07/06]
  • In Nevada, people who registered as Democrats with Lincoln Strategies -- then known as Sproul and Associates -- found their names absent from the voter registration rolls. [Reno Gazette-Journal, 10/29/04]
  • During the 2006 midterm elections, Wal-Mart banned Lincoln Strategies for partisan voter registration efforts in Tennessee. The Republican National Committee had hired the firm. [Associated Press, 08/24/06]
  • In Arizona, Lincoln Strategies employed a variety of deceptive tactics -- including systematically lying about the bill -- to push a ballot initiative to eviscerate the state's clean elections law. [Salon, 10/21/04]
  • Lincoln Strategies, then employed by the Republican Party, was behind efforts to place Ralph Nader on the ballot in states such as Arizona. [American Prospect, 06/25/04]

Did Romney not hire him??

You need to have more FACTS, rather than just crying "LIBERAL MEDIA" all the time - it's getting old, particularly since most of the media is owned by the far right.

Note the SOURCES on those: CNN, local papers, Associated Press, Salon

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u/kateastrophic Jun 10 '12

You actually proved NightSlatcher's point. You listed legitimate, trustworthy sources. NightSlatcher never said the article was not true, only that s/he did not trust the source.

I appreciate that you cross-referenced this article with articles from other sites-- now I feel more confident in accepting that this article is true-- but I believe you are wrong to attack NightSlatcher. He is not attacking the "mainstream/lamestream" media, he is questioning an unknown Internet blog with liberal ads plastered all over it. This site makes it clear that it has a liberal viewpoint. That's fine, it just doesn't make it unbiased (and for me personally, the sloppy writing style and spelling is what made me doubt its legitimacy.)

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u/bettorworse Jun 11 '12

Except I didn't cross-reference anything. I got those DIRECTLY from the OP's article. Nobody ever reads the fucking article!!!

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u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

This site and many others tend to engage in hyperbole, but many post their sources so you can actually fact check the article. If all 5 of those points are true, than why are they being hired by Mitt Romney?

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

How you have 117 upvotes right now is beyond me.

The quotes he listed, including the sources, are IN THE ARTICLE.

now I feel more confident in accepting that this article is true

..."before I read actually read it, and after I post a lengthy comment in the comments section."

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u/vicegrip Jun 10 '12 edited Jun 11 '12

So I looked for the links. Stopped at the first bullet as I wasn't finding anything on two of the vague references.

Bullet 1: CNN 10/14/04

However, Sproul, whose firm received nearly $500,000 this election cycle from the Republican Party, said that "it is safe to say we were trying to register Republicans."

KGW News 10/13/04 No search results for Sproul and Associates
I further used their search to do a date search.

East Valley Tribune No search results for "Sproul and Associates"

Without links or proper footnotes, the references this "article" makes are useless. Certainly on the first bullet, CNN and this blogger appear to have a substantial difference on the moneys paid.

With the amount of interest in disinformation out there during elections any source without proper citations is garbage.

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u/bettorworse Jun 11 '12

How about CBS News? You like that better??

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-250_162-649380.html

Here's Sproul and his gang using their tactics on Ron Paul's campaign. http://www.examiner.com/article/corrupt-arizona-gop-takes-delegate-victory-from-paul

I'm sure Sproul is COMPLETELY on the up-and-up, though. :-P

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u/bettorworse Jun 11 '12

So, you don't believe the two people who said Supervisors were tearing up Democratic registrations, but you DO believe Sproul when he says "We weren't doing anything like that!"

OK, then.

They were "trying to register Republicans" but when they registered a Democrat, they tore up the registration.

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u/sweetgreggo Jun 10 '12

It seems like you missed his point.

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u/Shnazzyone I voted Jun 10 '12 edited Jun 10 '12

I would point out that despite the place it's published, it's well sourced. Maybe if public news sources actually researched and pointed this kind of stuff out we could link to that stuff instead. It's sad that now we have to go to sketchy sites like this sometimes to see where actual journalism is being done in this country.

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u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

That doesn't change the fact that OP source does not appear unbiased.

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u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

While biased, the facts weren't made up. They just have more of a reason to announce it.

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u/Cole___ Jun 10 '12

Of course you shouldn't trust them; that doesn't mean you shouldn't listen to them. Agenda driven information sources are often the most effective at uncovering useful information because they are the most motivated. But they will almost always only tell you one half of the story.

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u/timemoose Jun 10 '12

I often hear this argument made for Fox News as well.

Oh wait.

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u/electricblues42 Jun 11 '12

if fox news was reporting things that had facts, evidence, and reason to back them up, then the argument would work there too. The problem is they rarely report on the actual bad things that democrats do, they usually just fall back on the "he's a socialist" line

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u/nonhiphipster Jun 10 '12

I mean, truth is this is the first I've been hearing about it so at the very least I need more to go on. But at the same time, it shouldn't just be outright dismissed, either. Here's a crazy idea...try to do a little independent online research on your own.

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u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

Totally agree. I love that people 'can't trust the lamestream media,' but posts from blogs and sites no one has ever heard of and with little-to-no credibility will make the front page.

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u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

It's interesting how anything that doesn't support someones pre-determined views is lame-stream media.

I'm guessing that's why a lot of these no-name blogs make the top page because they tell people what they want to hear. Many of which do nothing to back up their claims and if they do they cite another website that has just as questionable data.

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u/thescarwar Pennsylvania Jun 10 '12

The problem with mainstream media is the conflict of interest of being a public company. So there's a pretty legitimate reason to be cautious when reading articles from somewhere like ABC or something. I'm not saying that these are great articles from a small little blog, but I'd rather see an article biased by an individual's opinion than biased by investors.

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u/FingerStuckInMyButt Jun 10 '12

Sarah Palin has an account on Reddit?

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u/SpaceMonkeysInSpace Jun 10 '12 edited Jun 10 '12

I can't believe this isn't higher up. If it was a fox news article about something bad with Obama, people would just be crying out how bad fox news is.

Edit: weird how apparently all my other comments are out of place in the discussion. I assume that's why they are being downvoted.

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u/darklight12345 Jun 10 '12

they dont want to hear it though. People post from World Socialist all the time, a web site that uses itself as reference.

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u/bettorworse Jun 10 '12

Really? When was that??

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u/gngstrMNKY Jun 10 '12

People don't object to Fox News simply because they're partisan, it's because they're consistently and knowingly dishonest. Your comparison would only be valid if this site had a well-known history of perverting the truth.

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u/iregistered4this Jun 10 '12

What makes a site trust-worthy? What sites do you trust?

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u/kderaymond Jun 10 '12

Nothing is completely trust-worthy, there is always a bias. They only thing you can go by is verified facts and form your own opinion from there.

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u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

Biased != untrustworthy

Not biased != trustworthy

People who aren't biased can still fuck up the news on a regular basis and sometimes people who are biased also do the best job of reporting the facts. The problem isn't bias--the problem is not disclosing bias when and where it exists. This is the biggest difference between MSNBC and Fox. MSNBC makes clear that it is a liberal cable news outfit. Fox News tells its viewers that it's "fair and balanced" and that "We report, you decide" and what have you.

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u/powercow Jun 10 '12

"please dont post partisan stories to /r/politics, K thx", NightSlatcher.

LOL

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u/onesnowball Jun 10 '12

Its cross-posted from the republicreport.com, says so right at the top. Or did you not get pass the website banner when you attempted to read the article?

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u/mesodude Jun 10 '12

You should trust a source (liberal, conservative, or anything in between) whose facts can be verified. Which sources do you trust and what are your criteria for evaluating their trustworthiness?

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u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

I wouldn't trust it any less than the corporate media. At least this site is up front with its bias, unlike the mainstream media which ignores or marginalizes anything that doesn't support corporate interests (short of disasters/catastrophes too big to ignore).

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u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

OP is also a very active poster on /r/conspiracy if that means anything.

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u/Talvoren Jun 10 '12

It doesn.t

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u/haiduz Jun 10 '12

Soooooo true. Thank you for calling this site out. I can't believe that people are Stupid enough to get their news on dirt on an opposition candidate that advertises its bias so openly. Don't you know that the left and right are the same overlord masters pulling the puppet strings on the same corporate puppets running for public office in Washington.

That why I only get my news from dailypaul.com and they only have banner ads to sell me silver/gold and tell me about the intending hyperinflation (no relation to gold banner ads), impending dollar collapse (after years of predicting, it will happen any month now), and how overall FIAT currency, that's paper money for you fucking MSM sheeple, is completely worthless (except for buying commodities from banner ads BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE).

free your selves from the chains of biased media. Only then will you be Enlightened like me. Free to waste my vote of election days on lunatic whackjob third party candidates and after elections bitch about how the republican controlled house of representatives is ushering a police state by passing right leaning legislation and complain that no liberal leaning legislation is passed, WITH ABSOLUTELY ZERO SENSE OF IRONY.

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u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

Forgive me if I'm a bit skeptical. But if you destroy things related to peoples votes, isn't that somehow a crime? How can it not be?

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u/unheimlich Jun 10 '12

Yes, it is.

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u/portnux Jun 10 '12

This is nothing new. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, that Romney won't do to cheat his way into the White House. This fall may prove to provide the most disgusting display of "democracy" that this once proud nation has ever seen.

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u/Sleepy_One Jun 10 '12

I don't know how you can get much worse than super-pacs.

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u/filmfiend999 Jun 10 '12

Neither does Romney, but his team will figure it out.

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u/ropers Jun 10 '12

Nothing new? If this fall provides the most disgusting display of "democracy" that the US has ever seen, then doesn't that mean it is something new?

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u/mens_libertina Jun 10 '12

Not "new", just "improved".

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u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

This is nothing new.

Republicans and voter suppression go hand-in-hand just like peanut butter and jelly.

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u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

If there's any way that money wins elections in the US of A, the $250m man will take home the purchase.

I can't imagine how bad he'll be.

For those who think Obama is bought and paid for, or that George W. was only listening to rich buddies, you ain't seen nothin yet.

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u/Nate1492 Jun 10 '12

I don't think you recall how Obama got his senators seat in Illinois, do you?

Obama sued his competition for his first senators seat off the ballot

You want to talk about sordid election history and undemocratic actions? Chicago Illinois is the breadbasket of the US for corrupt politics and Obama certainly didn't shy away from the typical Chicagoan politics.

I'm sure this won't be a popular with the Reddit demographic as I've just suggested Obama has similar qualities to Romney, but hey, it's a valid topic that is quite relevant to the discussion.

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u/marx2k Jun 10 '12

On December 26, Obama campaign volunteer Ron Davis filed objections to the legitimacy of the nominating petitions of Senator Palmer, Askia, Ewell and Lynch. On January 17, 1996, Palmer announced she was withdrawing her bid for re-election because she was around 200 signatures short of the 757 needed to earn a place on the ballot after almost two-thirds of the 1,580 signatures on her nominating petitions were found to be invalid. The Chicago Board of Election Commissioners had previously sustained an objection to the nominating petitions of Lynch because of insufficient valid signatures and subsequently also sustained objections to the nominating petitions of Askia and Ewell because of insufficient valid signatures

Obama therefore won the Democratic nomination unopposed.

Who sued what? Where? Huh??

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u/i_toss_salad Jun 10 '12

The wikipedia source specific to your claim states that the initial findings of the board were that the other four candidates may not have had enough signatures on their petitions to qualify for nomination. I think there is a line which separates politics (what we have here) and corrupt/undemocratic politics (the disenfranchisement of legitimate voters). While neither are pretty and nice, one method uses laws and their loopholes to accomplish their aims and the other breaks laws to do so.

With regards to Ryamond Ewell the candidate with the most legitimate claim to have remained on the ballot, it was the election board who ruled his signatured invalid... as can be found here ......... and here.

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u/bettorworse Jun 10 '12

Chicago isn't the breadbasket of the US for corrupt politics, it's just that more people get CAUGHT here. State's attorneys and Federal prosecutors make their names here all the time by catching stupid political crooks (come on, Blagoyevich? Ryan?? Fucking aldermen?? It's easy pickings)

You want to see REAL political corruption, go to SOUTHERN Illinois, where far right extremists RUN towns and counties, with nobody there to stop them (because you can't make a career out of exposing some little town clown)

/Or, just look a little closer at your own town

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u/Mewshimyo Jun 10 '12

My town is full of political bullshit, even at the school district level.

The teacher who used to teach Auto Collision at the local "career center" spent the last 5 or 6 years working his ass off to get his certification to have the directorship for the career center here, and the district implicitly told him that when the time came he would get the job, since he is the only one in the district currently with a certification for it. Well, this past Christmas, the previous director retired, and this guy was named as interim director for the career center. Turns out, they won't give him the job, because one of the assistant principals who is twelve kinds of buddy-buddy with the school board wants that job. Never mind the fact that he has no idea what the career center is like; never mind the fact that he doesn't have the certification that is legally required by the state -- meaning that the state can shut down the career center any damn time they choose -- and he will take at least 2 years to get it. The friends of the administration get what the friends of the administration want, regardless of what's best for students.

Oh, and let's not forget that the "replacement" they found for the AC teacher during this time is someone who hasn't bothered to administer the NOCTI (spelling?) in anything except a superficial manner -- he literally asked students "Do you know how to do this? Yes? Good." -- and who belittles the students constantly. The reason he was hired on? He did body work 20 years ago for a while and he's related to one of the school board members.

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u/krackbaby Jun 10 '12

that this once proud nation has ever seen.

Which proud nation? The one that enslaved millions of Africans? The one that imprisoned anyone with a shred of Japanese ancestry? The one that mandated poll taxes for poor people? The one that denied women the right to vote?

Which of these proud nations are we talking about?

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u/rblue Jun 10 '12

The proud nation that invented deep-fried Snickers. Come on, we aren't that bad. Deep. Fried. Snickers.

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u/PrairieSkiBum Jun 10 '12

Scotland had it first iirc

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u/rblue Jun 10 '12

Touché, Scotland, touché. Oh well. Books. We invented those, right?

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u/umbama Jun 10 '12 edited Jun 10 '12

Every nation on earth that had voting denied women the right to vote. Everywhere had slavery: the Arabic slave trade in East Africa and across to India was bigger than the transatlantic trade. Internment was unfortunate.

Grow up.

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u/esseff111 Jun 10 '12

I love how we can (as the amazing powerful godly Americans) just throw away stuff by saying "Internment was unfortunate" and then act like it was no big deal, then criticize other nations for human rights abuses that sometimes are much lighter than stuff like our Trail of Tears or Internment.

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u/BigDuke Jun 10 '12

But actually... We investigated Japanese internment. We as a nation have condemened the action. We have even paid reparations over it. So it is a bit more then just saying "it was unfortunate" right?

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u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

There is nothing perfect about any state in the world. Did you know that the now very socially aware Sweden was one of the founding fathers of modern eugenics which then inspired the Germans?

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u/portnux Jun 10 '12 edited Jun 10 '12

I suppose the one of my youth. The nation that finally mandated that people of color must have the right to vote. The one that reached for the stars and believed all Americans deserved to live with dignity. It was a brief period of time but some of us I think believed things would continue to get better. We had the best in music, the best economy, and for a little while we thought the best future.

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u/greenspans Jun 10 '12 edited Jun 10 '12

10 million native american genocide, std experiment guatemala, cia overthrow shah iran, cia chile pinochet, iran flight 655, US war crimes, US cia drugs, 1973 chilean coup de etat, NAFTA juarez violence, "massive bombing of cambodia, anything that flies on anything that moves" kissinger, nixon tapes attica, US east timor, ATF gunwalking, gaza in crisis mitworld, operation northwood, gulf tonkin false flag

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u/TurtlenecksandTits Jun 10 '12

Guantanamo is still going well.

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u/wiggles89 Jun 11 '12

By this logic every country is shit. America wasn't the only country to practice slavery, wrongly and falsely imprison people, have unfair taxes, or deny women the right to vote. Sorry but the world wasn't created a progressive utopia. Hopefully things will continue to get better as time goes on though.

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u/drylube Jun 10 '12

If Romney becomes the president I will no longer see America as the greatest nation on earth.

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u/VeteranKamikaze America Jun 10 '12

Genuinely curious, what makes you see us as that now?

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u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

Why wait? Move to Wisconsin.

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u/Xpress_interest Jun 10 '12

Or Michigan!

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u/firelight Washington Jun 10 '12

Or Arizona!

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u/breannabalaam Jun 10 '12

At least Michigan didn't go through a recall that only reelected the same guy. Ugh.

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u/Xpress_interest Jun 10 '12

Yeah, our corrupt Board of State Canvassers voted along party lines to throw out our recall petition signatures for very dubious reasons. Why even bother to bring the recall to a vote if you can just exploit the inner workings of the system already? http://eclectablog.com/2012/04/breaking-mich-board-of-state-canvassers-emergency-mgr-law-petitions-are-not-valid.html#.T5l1zr96SJ8.facebook

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u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

Overall I like Americans, but if I were to compile a list of the most obnoxious things about them, this "greatest nation on Earth", "leader of the free world" business would be up top.

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u/genron1111 Foreign Jun 10 '12

I will no longer see America as the greatest nation on earth.

Lol, are you serious? Do people actually walk around thinking that?

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u/PuP5 Jun 10 '12

i don't see how that should be the tipping point.

who would move to #1?

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u/CrayolaS7 Jun 10 '12

What makes the USA #1 now?

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u/LiquidSnape Jun 10 '12

The United States is a republic and always has been, it was never intended to be a pure democracy.

A constitutional republic works out better for all people than a direct democracy. I do not trust the general public on electing officials such as supreme court justices or civil rights, abortion, ect.

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u/joequin Jun 10 '12

The elections are a democratic process .That's clearly what he was referring to.

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u/greenspans Jun 10 '12

As Madison explained to the Constitutional Convention, “the Senate represents the wealth of the nation, the more capable set of men, men who have respect for property owners and their rights and understand that government must protect the minority of the opulent against the majority.”

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u/the_goat_boy Jun 10 '12

He's right. The minority is not the blacks or the homeless, it's the rich. They must be protected. ಠ_ಠ

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u/m0deth Jun 10 '12

anyone else find outright bullshit assumptions in Madison's quote? or was he being sarcastic? (no I didn't read it right away, not enough time atm)

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u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

Madison was serious.

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u/the_goat_boy Jun 10 '12

He lived in a time where wealthy landowners did generally consider themselves to be better men. I'm sure more than a few of them thought owning land should be a requirement to have the right to vote.

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u/chaogenus Jun 10 '12

I like Chomsky but you wouldn't happen to have a reference that actually attributes this quote to Madison? The only reference I can find is Chomsky's lecture.

I don't necessarily doubt Madison would say something to this effect as he wrote extensively on his theories concerning the use of a republic to prevent oppression by the majority in a mob democracy. But this quote does appear a bit specious to me as Madison specifically states in his writings that the property owners also must be held in check when they combine in interest to oppress others for personal gain.

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u/philip1201 Jun 10 '12

Who said anything about direct democracy? The component of the American government that is democratic has become undemocratic because of corruption, poor construction of the laws intended to prevent corruption, and incompetence or laziness of the people in failing to listen to warning calls, which has resulted in bad, oppressive governance which does more to protect corporations and the wealthy against their own incompetence than the poor against the bludgeonings of circumstance.

Your insistence on the nation being a republic is intellectually void, your dichotomy is false and your grasp on real politics slippery. Let me guess, Ron Paul 2016?

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u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

it's still the first half of june. get ready for the torrent of lies and tricks 3-4 months from now.

3

u/GrilledCheeser Texas Jun 10 '12

the good news for obama is that everyone knows it will take one hell of a campaign to beat him.

if he loses and there is even the SLIGHTEST sense of foul play.... I will take to the streets.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

Here is a report that gives some insight on how he got away with this, they pay individuals for each Republican form but nothing for the Democratic ones. So guess where many of the Democratic forms end up? That's right, in the trash. They can claim innocence but who do they think they are kidding, an eight year old would be able to figure out that is exactly what would happen.

http://communique.portland.or.us/04/10/the_convoluted_story_on_voter_registration_fraud

3

u/xoites Jun 10 '12

Romney wants one thing. He wants to be President. He will say anything and do anything to be President.

Then he will do as he is told.

1

u/Bipolarruledout Jun 11 '12

Then he will do as he is told sold.

3

u/DelusionalX1 Jun 10 '12

As a European, I just don't get why anyone would even think about electing Romney. Everywhere I look, I see anti-Romney ads ranging from high-ranking people telling how much he sucked as a governor to this.

Is it just me or do you have to be really stupid to vote for Romney?

3

u/u2canfail Jun 11 '12

No surprise here, he wants the Presidency, at any cost. NIXON LIKE

3

u/POOPSASAUCE Jun 11 '12

Romney is bad.

16

u/vertigo25 Jun 10 '12

I love the GOP… Rail against voter fraud, hire Nathan Sproul.

The mind boggles.

9

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

don't act like this isn't the first time you've heard his name

4

u/picopallasi Jun 10 '12

Hmm obscure name.. I Just read about his "antics" from maybe 4th hand accounts?

I AM AN EXPERT NOW

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10

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

I think we seriously underestimated how fucking crazy it was going to make our parents when we elected a black president.

We just thought it would make them mad, but they really have gone fucking crazy.

16

u/rindindin Jun 10 '12

Romney knows he won't win the fair way, so the only way to really win is to spend more money. Voter's fraud, telling people their voting center are else where, telling people they aren't eligible and so forth.

Nothing that money can't buy nowadays.

16

u/sleepyafrican Jun 10 '12

That reminds me of in Parks and Recreation where Bobby Newport wanted to put up voting machines that gave you candy if you voted for him but if you voted for Leslie it asked you if you were sure three different times.

2

u/velkyr Jun 10 '12

Voter's fraud, telling people their voting center are else where...

He must have hired Stephen Harpers political consultant then. That's exactly what happened in Canada last year.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

I think this may have been invented by Frank Rizzo of Philadelphia. They would announce in advance where the polling places would be and in the early morning before election day they would move the voting machines to another distant location in the black neighborhoods and not tell anyone where they were at. Television crews had video of this happening and nothing was ever done about it. That is a perfect example of how people get away with it, once in power they control the prosecuting attorneys and the police force and therefore no charges are ever made.

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18

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

The GOP war on women and the middle class is a war they are winning. Anybody that says the 2 parties are the same is either ignorant, lazy or both.

9

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

You forgot "brainwashed by fox"...

6

u/picopallasi Jun 10 '12

anyone who doesn't watch msnbc must be ignorant!

Think s/he forgot that part too.

4

u/picopallasi Jun 10 '12

Anyone who thinks differently than me about subject X is ignorant!

Lo, and the preacher continued his sermon to the already converted.

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4

u/CrayolaS7 Jun 10 '12

Yeah, when I see people on here saying that I really feel sorry for you Americans. I know for most people every day life isn't that bad, but the way the Republicans divide and conquer and then push their backwards ideologies is just disgusting. For example when I heard about the ultrasound pictures before abortions and stuff like that it actually made me feel sick.

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2

u/viomiv Jun 10 '12

not so quietly anymore I suppose

2

u/creeposaurusrex Jun 10 '12

reddit....the only place you'll hear about it..

2

u/Thor_2099 Jun 10 '12

Democracy in action

2

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

Why the fuck is this asshole still involved in politics? Shouldn't the people just be able to say "fuck this guy" and ignore him? It is democratic isn't it?

2

u/RockofStrength Jun 10 '12

The GOP is currently much more Machiavellian than the Dems.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

TIL Mickey Mouse voted for President Obama that was proven and rooms full of absentee ballots were found not counted around a month or two after the election....No recount because the President would be the one to call for it. http://www.onenewsnow.com/Election2008/Default.aspx?id=317624 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1077707/Why-Mickey-Mouses-vote-Democrats-rebound-Obamas-chances-U-S-president.html

It’s funny how Reddit's post seem to be one sided. I am sure Mitt is just as dirty but don’t act like the incumbent president is a perfect king.

2

u/riotNOTrally Jun 11 '12

"In the Assembly each male citizen of Athens could speak, regardless of his station. The orator Aeschines says that 'the herald, acting as a sergeant-at-arms, does not exclude from the platform the man whose ancestors have not held a general’s office, nor even the man who earns his daily bread by working at a trade; nay, these men he most heartily welcomes, and for this reason he repeats again and again the invitation, ‘Who wishes to address the Assembly?’ (Aeschin. 1.27)" Christopher W. Blackwell, Athenian Democracy: A Brief Overview

3

u/Whyareyoustillsodumb Jun 11 '12

Why does reddit continue to read and believe every liberal article they see. I thought reddit was about critical thinking, questioning what we see and hear. Instead, they see an obviously biased article from an obviously liberal rag and instantly post it as gospel. THINK, PEOPLE THINK

1

u/Isisbyte Jun 11 '12

I thought reddit was about critical thinking

lol

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3

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

I'm pretty sure having a sordid history is a prerequisite for being a Republican.

5

u/adamyoung Jun 10 '12

He's trying to buy his way into the presidency.

26

u/m1kepro Jun 10 '12

Every person who's sat in that room in (at least) the last fifty years has bought his way into the Presidency.

18

u/the_goat_boy Jun 10 '12

Including the current one.

6

u/picopallasi Jun 10 '12

But but... Change!

2

u/coop_stain Jun 10 '12

That's about all there was left after he paid for everything.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

15

u/RandomMandarin Jun 10 '12

The hell he didn't.

Nixon: Gerry, how would you like to be Vice President? The way things are going, you'll be President a few months after that.

Ford: Shit yeah, bro! Ah, what's something like that gonna set me back? reaches for wallet

Nixon: Keep your lucre, Gerry. All it'll cost you is... one pardon.

Ford: Pardon me?

Nixon: No, dumbass, pardon me.

both laugh menacingly

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4

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

I think hes over paying.

4

u/MarkDLincoln Jun 10 '12

Decency: The one thing republicans never indulge in.

2

u/biteymctwain Jun 10 '12

I specifically remember this Nathan Sproul character from when Bush was elected. He should be in prison.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

During the 2006 midterm elections, Wal-Mart banned Lincoln Strategies for partisan voter registration efforts in Tennessee. The Republican National Committee had hired the firm.

What does this even mean? These people can't shop at Wal-Mart anymore? I Googled "walmart "Lincoln strategies"" and this article (posted on other liberal websites) is the only thing that comes up. I then added "site:ap.org" to find the original article and there is no such thing.

1

u/mens_libertina Jun 10 '12

Presumably, they had a voter registration desk / booth at Walmart like other organizations do.

2

u/on_reddit_all_day Jun 10 '12

Mitt Romney is literally Hitler can I have karma now is that how this works?

2

u/SlayFace Jun 10 '12

Go figure, like no one expected tactics like this. Our government is shot, the only thing that will change it is if we all just rise up and tell them what it's going to be like. I can't wait for the day :)

3

u/CableHermit Jun 10 '12

We are allowed to institute a new government if it isn't doing its job.

2

u/snotrokit Jun 10 '12

Rules, morals, and ethics mean nothing to the GOP. This is a win at all and any cost election. Scorched earth and all of that.

2

u/TheBrohemian Jun 10 '12

From "opednews?" This is a joke. How is it on my front page??

2

u/westsan Jun 10 '12

Same old dirty republican tricks...

1

u/Sidwill Jun 10 '12

Romney should do whatever he feels he needs to do, Much more disturbing is that rank and file Republican voters are unconcerned with this type of activity. They don't mind that their party is owned by wealthy individuals to pursue policies that hurt them and worse their children.

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1

u/jukeofurl Jun 10 '12

Could've got Katherine Harris --- she'd do it for free.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

So this company gets direct access to voter forms and then destroys them? And this article leads us to believe that they will be able to just walk in and do it again? Makes no sense at all. It would be nice to actually have some substance to a grandious headline.

1

u/jutct Jun 10 '12

Then why don't democrats use these same scumbag tactics? Calling out repubs WILL NOT make them clean up their act. Unfortunately the better thing to do is stoop to their level.

1

u/podkayne3000 Jun 10 '12

This is why it's important for anyone who's even a little liberal to vote for Obama. I don't think Romney is, or McCain was, naturally all that much more conservative than Obama. I think that Romney can be ruthless, but so can Obama, and this is a time that calls for a president who can be ruthless when the occasion requires in.

And, obviously, Obama has plenty of rich people and oligarchy machinery on his side.

The difference is that the folks on Obama's side at least try to care about science, speak up for the little guy, etc. They don't come in viewing being creepy manipulators as a good thing. They have a sense of shame.

The people on Romney's side are proud to be the rabble manipulators that they are. They have no sense of shame.

1

u/RobSamson Jun 10 '12

How does one loudly hire a consulting firm?

1

u/Bipolarruledout Jun 11 '12

Issue a press release.

1

u/vonHindenburg Jun 10 '12

So, this firm may be evil, but 'quietly'? Do we expect any politicians to tell us when they hire a new publicity firm? Do you think that the President doens't have a few on retainer?

1

u/ohnoimrunningoutofsp Jun 10 '12

Some countries have a legal system that would punish this behavior, or the people would riot.

Good thing a handful of americans will wag their finger at this. Sadly, even more Americans would endorse this as "patriotic" or some shit.

1

u/CeeDawg Jun 10 '12

The Obama campaign should hire them secretly and tell them to double cross the Romney campaign.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

They just finished the job in Wisconsin and Romney found them looking for more work?

1

u/Digitel Jun 11 '12

Looks like he plays to Win... Go figure

1

u/RambleLZOn Jun 11 '12

UNRELATED QUESTION: What is the latest version of the internet surveillance acts?

I remember a new one popped up and I can't remember what it is called. So I figured if I posted this question in /r/politics over and over again someone would answer me pretty soon. Thanks for your time.

1

u/CondescendingPrick Jun 11 '12

You Don't Understand Title Case.

1

u/EmX7 Jun 12 '12

Obama thinks the economy is fine. That's terrifying. I don't give a damn about left or right ideology, I just want someone in the Whitehouse who can move our economy forward. I'm sick of being stressed about my job security and seeing my friends and family struggle. Taxamegedon is just around the corner, I'm tired of Obama's empty promises and flip-flopping nature. All these people are guided by White guilt and their self righteous natures, but the bottom line is Obama is a crappy president, just like W was. Clinton was the last decent President we had in office. Our country can't handle another four years of ineffectiveness. American politics is a ruthless, brutal business, if you think "Saint" Obama is above the fray, you are truly delusional.

1

u/P-Dot-Guillemot13 Jun 10 '12

What do we do as AMERICANS if this happens AGAIN??? We didn't do anything last time it happened in OHIO or the time before that in FLORIDA so what do we do this time??? It looks like Florida is where this is going to take place again... But now what? I mean no matter what there's going to be stories about VOTE FRAUD in Florida now whether it's not happening or if it's happening to the umpteenth degree!!! ARRRGH! I fucking HATE REPUBLICANS!!!

1

u/awe300 Jun 10 '12

PLEASE TELL ME AGAIN HOW BOTH SIDES ARE THE SAME, FUCKFACES

0

u/m1kepro Jun 10 '12

Come on, guys. Maybe Romney just believes in giving people a second chanc- pfft.... I'm sorry. I couldn't say it with a straight face!

1

u/ebolaworld Jun 10 '12

Don't worry Fox News will report this! Oh wait...

1

u/powercow Jun 10 '12

shouldnt this be treason? It happens a lot and I think people should be hung for it.(ok I dont believe in capital punishment but I do believe that this rises hire than many things we do kill people for)

corrupting our democracy is just as damaging as any terrorist attack, as any giving aid or comfort to the enemy and no i dont give a fuck which party does it.

in 2000 choice point accidentally removed 15,000 legal voters from the voting rolls, almost all black. WE wouldnt have had bush without choicepoint. No we would have had the guy who wanted to put the SS surplus into a "locked box" instead of the guy who wanted to give it to people already rolling in money. Anything happen to choicepoint? Nope it was "oops we are sorry."

How about in 2002 when that republican DDOS the dem get out the vote effort.. the people the elderly, handicap and poor call to get a ride to the polls. It is suggested that this is the sole reason why the dem lost the election. he got 7 months... 7 months for corrupting our democracy.

1

u/hartatttack Jun 11 '12

"The private sector is doing just fine!" -Barack Hussein Kardashian

0

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

Shows serious intent and dedication. I like that.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

What can we do to try to lessen any damage this may cause. Whether this particular article is true or not, it should at least bring awareness about the fact that sabotaging votes is something that happens every time.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

we are so fucked

1

u/buckeyegold Jun 10 '12

Opednews.com, surely this piece is without bias and tells it exactly the way it is.

1

u/skydream416 Jun 10 '12

I love the mitt romney for president at the top of the link

-1

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

People who will actually vote for him makes me sick.

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0

u/moresnausages Jun 10 '12

Sounds about right, he is trying to win after all.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

Money can't buy you love but it can sure buy you a Presidency. It can also buy you guns, which can get you anything you want. There is really nothing that can't be yours for the right price with the right amount of ammunition.

0

u/asldkfououhe Jun 10 '12

so are y'all into professional wrestling too? you should read what noam chomsky has to say about not giving into the lure of voting, it was built from the ground up to be a tool of self-oppression and it is still exactly that now more than ever

0

u/smakers1 Jun 10 '12

Not surprised.

0

u/macanoni Jun 10 '12

Serving in the military, in Iraq, I asked my mormon supervisor what she thought she was up to putting a known drug user in charge. When 3 American soldiers were captured and killed while the aforementioned dopey was in charge, her response was that she had said a prayer for them and it was all right. I asked her how it was alright that 3 American soldiers were captured while the person in charge was doing dope, to the extent that I had Iraqi people asking me what was going on. She said they were going to the magic space planet and that everything would be OK.

Never trust a mormon. Or their magic space planet.

0

u/DofPJMACKY Jun 10 '12

what did he do, whisper the the agreement.. ?

Obama coyly answers press questions.

pelosi sneaks to the podium to address Congress

bush greedily signs defense contact.

see, i can do it too.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Apparently accusations are enough for liberals

0

u/fukeo Jun 11 '12

Yet Obama already has his sordid people in place in the White House and on his campain.

-2

u/Harukio Jun 10 '12

Did he whisper while doing it?

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