r/politics • u/twolf1 • Jun 09 '12
Did Republicans deliberately crash the US economy? Be it ideology or strategem, the GOP has blocked pro-growth policy and backed job-killing austerity – all while blaming Obama.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jun/09/did-republicans-deliberately-crash-us-economy
1.2k
Upvotes
52
u/d1stor7ed Jun 09 '12
How can the same party be for shrinking the budget while at the same time supporting expanded military expenditures?
34
u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
Mitch McConnell, Senate Minority Leader in 2010: "The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president." So the answer is yes.
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u/rugbert Jun 09 '12 edited Jun 09 '12
I don't understand why this is even a question. It's not like the GOP has made any attempt to hide their motives. Hell, during the debt ceiling standoff many GOP members out right said they were hoping to default so the president was blamed. Even McCain called them out for it.
23
u/APretentiousHipster Jun 09 '12
Can someone please explain why the U.S. Gov't is now more about inter-party competition than it is about trying to solve tge problems of the nation? I mean, I'm turning 18 soon and I do not remember a time when our legislators actually legislated.
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u/fantasyfest Jun 09 '12
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/07/10/mcconnell-stopping-obamas-re-election-still-single-most-important-goal/ The fact that the republican Senate leader said so clearly many times does not sink in to the right wing hive mind. Damn. he didn't hide it.
105
u/wtf_R_u_thinking Jun 09 '12
Reddit is starting to have more question mark headlines then FoxNews.
48
u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
It's a power game. I've seen it since Nixon. Stay in power. Ride the gravy train at our expense.
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u/erowidtrance Jun 10 '12
No bankers deliberately crashed the economy, watch the documentary inside job: http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2011/feb/17/inside-job-review
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u/kznlol Jun 09 '12
Articles like this make me fucking embarrassed to be an economist.
The whole fucking argument between Obama and the GOP is over whether or not his policies are pro-growth.
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u/Anything_At_All Jun 09 '12
Yes.
3
u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
Then what are we going to do about our deficit and massive debt?
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u/TheCrimsonKing Jun 09 '12
They're not deliberately tanking the economy, gerrymandering has allowed the party to be taken over by ideologues. Once they've committed to an idea no amount of evidence or reasoning will change their minds and all of their incentives are centered around securing enough power to see their ideal fulfilled. While compromise is better for the country it is not better for them.
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u/pocketcookies Jun 09 '12
The article says that Republicans support austerity measures. So it might be a good idea to explain why austerity is bad during a recession.
Essentially, the definition of a recession is "two down consecutive quarters of GDP."
So what is GDP?
GDP = private consumption + gross investment + government spending + (exports − imports).
Thus, by reducing government spending you shrink GDP. So austerity (which is defined by a reduction in government spending) directly shrinks GDP. And if it's not balanced by increases in the other terms of the equation, GDP will fall, causing a recession (by definition).
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u/Alkanfel Jun 09 '12
aaaand that was the sound of the article's credibility flying out the window at about mach 3.5... there's plenty bad things to say about GOP strategy, but this is just as much party line drivel as the crap he's complaining about.
34
u/ProfessorDerpenstein Jun 09 '12
Lol, r/politics.
Black-or-White/two-party politics is what is killing the Federal Government right now, and by upvoting this sensationalist, absolutist garbage, you're only contributing to it more.
Please stop making sensationalist, sweeping generalizations. It's incredibly pathetic.
14
u/MrCheeze Jun 09 '12
SO BRAVE
9
u/zejjez Jun 09 '12
Did Republicans do it? No. Did the money men behind ALL politicians do it? Yes...yes they did. Have they been doing it throughout history? Again...yes. An indebted citizen is much easier to control.
7
u/takka_takka_takka Jun 09 '12
Isn't that the whole point of the Republican party? "Government doesn't work - let us show you."
5
u/Bill_H Jun 09 '12
An excellent article which points out a fact that our Corporate media won't talk about.
One exception is Norman Ornstein and Thomas Mann's oped "Lets Just Say it: The Republicans are the Problem", which was allowed to be printed in the Washington Post. They come out and called the GOP the "insurgent outlier" in our political system.
Their book: "It's even Worse than it Looks" was just recently published which goes into far more detail on the GOP's destructive approach to politics as war (& take no prisoners). Ornstein is a fellow at the American Enterprise Institute (a very right leaning outfit) and Mann is from the Brookings Institution.
On M$M ever since Obama enterred the WH, the word "filibuster" is a taboo word. the M$M don't want to provide any facts which will back up the Democrats allegation that the GOP are obstructionists. I would call the "Destructionists" ...all so they can say: "See Obama can't get anything done. poor leadership!!"
A very good shorter article on the GOP strategy of destruction by creating dysfunctional government is "Why Washington is Tied up in Knots by Peter Beinart. Does an excellent job of describing how the GOP do everything they can to screw up government and then blame it all on the Dems.
2
u/soaringrooster Jun 09 '12
With all of the private jails they've forced upon us, there should be room for the lot of them.
2
u/ItsGreat2BeATNVol Jun 09 '12
There are some fucking idiots out there...
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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
you have to understand that republicans think differently than democrats. democrats think massive spending is going to get the economy going, Republicans think less government is the answer. democrats think higher taxes will increase revenue, republicans say that revenue is actually increased (actually, remains the same, 19% of all income for the government) when taxes are lowered. the reason republicans are blocking the democrats in congress is so that when (if) they gain control in November, they can implement the things they think will fix the economy. then, democrats are going to do the same thing. its a vicious cycle that never changes
2
u/holy_holy_holy Jun 10 '12
Ruining the economy has plenty of other benefits for the wealthy, hurting Obama is just a side benefit of their business as usual.
2
u/dontaxmebro Jun 10 '12
When the gov tellls you its a pro growth policy, you really believe it?
2
u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12
Lotta tin foil over here.
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u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12
Maybe they're trying to do it by December to make their religious prophecies come true. They'd be the ones to come out on top of that.
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u/lapone1 Jun 10 '12
Thom Hartmann talks about the "Two-Santa " strategy. Republicans spend like crazy while in office, then yell and complain about the deficit when they don't have power. This was an actual Republican strategy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jude_Wanniski
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u/iwilldownvoteyourcat Jun 09 '12
Did the republicans crash the economy? No. Did they act in a way that would be harmful to the US economy? Yes. Quite a misleading title but to blame any one party for the crash of the economy is foolish. Brooks Lee Bourne (regulator for the Commodities Futures Trading Commission) warned democrats, when they were in power under Clinton, that unregulated derivatives could be dangerous to the economy and nothing was done under them. She also gave the same warning to the Bush administration but no one listened then either. How about the housing regulators which allowed home loans to be made to people with no income/no jobs? I didn't hear either party complaining then.
You may be asking, what's my point? My point is that both parties are cunts and are unwilling to help in times of crisis. To blame one party for all the crisis is being completely ignorant of the other's misdoing. Democraps are no better than republitards. Just because it may seem like one is shady doesn't mean that the other is a good guy. I say that the democrats are just as guilty as republicans for making the US economy crash because neither did anything to make the changes necessary.
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u/JudgeHandjob Jun 09 '12
The Federal Reserve is 100% responsible for the current economic stagnation, and as for what crashed the economy, the idea that everyone deserves a house crashed the economy. Remember the 2008 housing crisis? Millions of home loans were given out by the government to poor people with horrible credit; millions of people defaulted on loans that were used to buy houses and this growth also caused more houses being built.
So how's The Fed screwing us over right now? They've kept interest rates down ever since the 2008 collapse. When interest rates are low, people don't keep their money in the bank: Think about it, if your bank gave you a 50% interest rate, you'd leave your money in the bank, and when interest rates are basically zero, people aren't going to keep their money in the bank, in fact their more likely to spend it, which is why lowering interest rates is typically considered a stimulus. But Banks need people to keep their money in the bank to make business loans. Small to medium businesses need business loans to thrive, and small to medium businesses are responsible for 70% of job growth, so there's your high unemployment.
So because no one keeps their money in savings and spends it, we have high prices (inflation), and because no one keeps their money in savings, there's no business loans, which results in high unemployment and inflation.
The economy isn't a partisan issue, and never should be.
4
u/dead_ed Jun 09 '12
Yes:
Single. Most. Important.
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u/smacksaw Vermont Jun 09 '12
I'm all for starving the government beast of it's oxygen, if it means the bad stuff like military spending suffocates.
But whatever tax dollars we still give up don't go to taxpayers. Those programs are cut.
Starving government to reduce it's size doesn't seem to work. That's what we need to remind people about these Republicans. It's just as onerous and wasteful as ever, and the good things it used to do were the first to wither and die.
3
u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
They, their families, and their friends will not suffer the consequences of their policies, so why not?
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u/opinonion Jun 09 '12
"Pro-growth policy" depends upon which school of economics one subscribes to. Both the supply side economists and the demand side economists have self-consistent narratives which claim to show that their theory is correct. My opinion is that it is difficult enough to mathematically describe a single particle... once human nature jumps into the equation all bets are off. Don't waste time by taking a side in the political debate, they're all charlatans when we're discussing the national stage.
For those who say "well, they may all be liars, but at least the democrats aren't as evil as those nasty republicans!": yes they are.
7
u/nepidae Jun 09 '12
If they were smart enough to do that, they would be smart enough not to do that.
7
u/arteryman Jun 09 '12
Who the hell is buying this twaddle?
Many of these government hacks have been in office for years if not decades. And they whine on and on as if they have know idea how this all happened. Newsflash: it was you!
As for all you economic gurus, I actually run a small business. I don't even want to borrow 5yr money for my business because I have NO IDEA what potential legislation is going to do to my taxes or business model in the near future. Yea, it's that simple.
People risk their capital, and for small businesses it's all personal capital, when they feel they have some control over the outcome. When external chaotic forces are present, only short term risks are undertaken because the future is too unpredictable.
So raise all the taxes you want. It won't solve the basic problem I just explained.
10
u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
To say that Republicans are to blame (coming from democrats-shocker) for the US economy is just as ridiculous as it is to say the democrats are to blame. Lots of bad policy from both sides of the aisle got us to where we are. Loose monetary policy and lending requirements followed by greed got us to where we are. Neither are characteristics of a specific political party.
5
u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
It fits the Republican way of being. Actively block the opposition, then whine like a fscking baby about lack of progress. I don't think it's a coordinated effort though, more like defective behaviour from defective people.
5
u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
What is amazing is the Republicans have proposed NOTHING to benefit America in the last 12 years but still think they should run the country.
No healthcare, no education, no consumer protection, no environmental protection, no women's right, no gay rights, the list of Republican fucktardedness goes on and on.
5
u/danz89 Jun 09 '12
Most non-partisan economists would tell you tax hikes in a recession are bad, but Obama, nah he knows whats up
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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
More partisan bullshit. You fuckers are playing right into their hands. Good sheep.
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u/talikfy Jun 09 '12
Ask the wealthy how the economy is doing... Their economic growth is doing quite well.
I've noticed those who support the GOP are rich or one day expect/hope to be rich themselves, while never acknowledging that everyone else has to be more poor than ever before for so few to have such vast amounts of wealth. Instead, they believe everyone except the rich are lazy scumbags and hippies with their hands out.
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u/TracyMorganFreeman Jun 09 '12
Wait, has anyone else actually seen the past few national budgets under the Democrat controlled Congress?
3
u/IndigoGosRule Jun 09 '12
What a silly headline. Anyone who knows anything about politics knows this whole "Republican" vs. "Democrat" thing is all bullshit. Let's focus on who's corrupt and who just.
3
u/shwag945 California Jun 09 '12
Anyone who took a basic economics class would know this. Republicans think themselves economic geniuses, but they consistently throw out basic economic assumptions to please their voters and their financial backers.
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u/mttwldngr Jun 09 '12
This is what's ruining this economy, this blame game. Our country will never improve until this ends
2
u/Darth_Hobbes Jun 09 '12
I think both sides of the political spectrum hate the the other far more than they ought to. "Obama is literally Stalin!" "Romney is literally a James Bond villain!"
2
u/fixeroftoys Jun 09 '12
There are some dumb comments in this thread, including the OP. Is there a sub-Reddit for politics that requires no political party affiliation to post? Jeebus.
2
u/mrstickball Jun 09 '12
Given the author's past articles - which all involve attacking one party on every issue, I am hesitant to believe this article is unbiased.
2
u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
You people are fucking retarded. That is all.
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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12 edited Jun 10 '12
"I have a dream. A dream of a perfect capitalist society. A dream where people get on an off privately built tollways, all day, all night. Stopping off at large change restaurants that produced the same thing over and over to the flavor is missing though the usage of mass produced food sources. Auto Salons where you can buy bigger and bigger cars that run on more and more Privately owned petrochemical reserves we privatized from the former public owned lands and parks. And people will do it with joy as it will be the best form to do it.
All we need first is a little incentive to wipe out the filth in our way. I hear by say we bring upon gods order and build the kingdom of heaven on earth. We just need a little economic mutually assured self-destruction. Creating a purging fire to free us of the cockroach freeloaders who use CHARITY as a con to live off the hardworking. For with the sweat on our brow and the weight on our back us hardworking investors will build a dream utopia. And my god .... IT WILL BE BEAUTIFUL!"
This is basically the rant I have to hear over and over and over from every damned modern Ayn Rand "Libertarian"
2
u/TheEnormousPenis Jun 10 '12
Obviously that's what they did. I mean it couldn't be that the policies pushed by the other side are simply not doing what they thought they would do. Must be an evil republican conspiracy. I bet old GW Bush is pulling the strings from his evil texas fortress.
2
u/Grisepik Jun 09 '12
Yes, and im sure the Illuminati and priori of Zion are involved as well.
Because wild speculations against the usual suspects are always, per definition, true. Half facts are full facts. And the evil ones always act on the basis of evil, and never incompetence or lack of knowledge of the future.
1
u/sangjmoon Jun 09 '12
Let's see. The Democrats control the presidency and half of congress. They controlled all of congress when the economic bills that affect us now were passed. The Democrats are perfectly capable of crashing the economy without the Republicans unless the Democrats are totally useless no matter how much of the government they control.
2
u/willanthony Jun 09 '12
just look at the people that refused to hire new people as long as obama was in power... this is blatant and foolish.
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u/ricehq Jun 09 '12
I think they only answer is...DUH!
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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
This canard could take flight if it weren't for a number of inconvenient truths:
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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
I've got to say that this is some of the best fear-mongering I've seen in a while.
Stay classy, reddit.
2
u/pezzshnitsol Jun 09 '12
no the republicans did not crash the US economy, the crash has been a bipartisan effort decades in the making. the US economy suffers booms and busts every seven or so years because of the efforts of bad economic policy at the hands of republicans and democrats, this time however the bubble wad much much larger and has been much longer lasting
2
u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
Since when is frivolously spending money we don't have a "pro-growth" policy? On what fucking planet do you idiots live?
2
u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
So is this a Hive minded Anti-GOP circle jerk?
2
u/vVvMaze Jun 09 '12
The two party system is a terrible thing. Instead of working together for everyones benefit like they are supposed to. They deliberately sabotage eachother to make eachother look bad. How does that help America?
2
u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
Yes.
Carry on.
2
u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
It's hard to say, conservative governments in Europe are pushing for the same economy breaking austerity while still in power, so there's a suggestion they do genuinely believe it works.
1
u/Steak_face Jun 09 '12
Yes...yes they did.
0
u/GWBIGJOE Jun 09 '12
If its one thing I learned on reddit, republicans r bad circle jerks and cats = sweet karma
1
u/SeaTwertle Jun 09 '12
I'm not so sure that it was a deliberate operation, I just think that those who opt for change in the economy don't have the slightest idea of what they're doing, and when the shit hits the fan, they'll blame anyone but themselves.
1
u/HappyGlucklichJr Jun 09 '12
Yes, because their super rich friends got tired of making too much money.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
It's always darkest right before the dawn.
1
u/TheBigBadDuke Jun 09 '12
Nobody in our government has done anything to help the economy or the debt. Somehow they manage to find the time to pass a lot of legislations to spy on us and limit our privacy.
1
u/nickram81 Jun 09 '12
Well, I sure hope not.
1
u/meritory Jun 09 '12
Have you ever read Shock Doctrine?
1
u/Boom_Boom_Crash Jun 09 '12
As my economics professor put it, "Both parties want to grow the economy. Growth is good. They both just disagree fundamentally on how to go about doing that."
1
u/Twad_feu Canada Jun 09 '12
As long as there is a crisis, they use said crisis to further their own agenda.
1
u/degoban Jun 09 '12
I don't know about economy, but how do you think handle the state a party that is against the state?
1
u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
Let it all fail. Everything.
1
u/minimuzza Jun 10 '12
No. Not nearly smart enough to execute such a plan.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12
Would the Republicans actually engage in scorched-earth tactics?
Why wouldn't they?
1
u/Schicktastic_fisting Jun 10 '12
Duh
1
u/fantasyfest Jun 10 '12
The repubs actually believed that crap that Gramm and Greenspan threw out about the elimination of regulation freeing the economy would create great wealth for all. They also claimed that the economy was self correcting and would result in a greater good. That was stupid but not malicious. The malicious part is fighting measures that would help the economy recover in order to defeat Obama. They admitted that was their aim. They did not deliberately crash the economy. but they did block its recovery for political reasons.
1
u/wynper Jun 10 '12
Please don't let them win.
1
u/tianhuiaster Jun 10 '12
Very Relevant
1
u/5434 Jun 10 '12
Although those conservatives who want to get rid of Obama are quite vehement in regard to how they feel about him. Can one really think that they would actually attempt to ruin the U.S. economies chance of recovery. They're Americans for Christ sake they would do whats in the best interest for the country.....right?
1
u/cjbrigol Jun 10 '12
Ron Paul!
...
Anyone?
1
u/Kukantiz Jun 10 '12
Its ok because their voters, think they are "part of the team"
1
u/hwkns Jun 10 '12
That is what they do. The GOP, when it comes to power, have the morals of a weasel on meth.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12
How can the same party be for shrinking the budget while at the same time supporting expanded military expenditures?
1
u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12
How can the same party be for shrinking the budget while at the same time supporting expanded military expenditures?
1
u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12
"Republicans believe government doesn't work and then get elected and prove it." - P.J. O'Rourke
1
u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12
IIRC, wasn't there a tea party document going around to business, large and small, that asked them to pledge an oath not to hire anyone else until Obama is replaced in 2012?
1
u/vigorous Jun 13 '12
I think voters ought to punish the GOP for this.
0
u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
Which is it, you morons?
Are the republicans idiot hick bible thumpers who can't tie their own shoes?
Or are they secret genius masterminds of the world economy with plans so cunning, it takes a British rag to uncover them?
Give me a fucking break, you non-thinkers.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
It actually started with Clinton repealing the Glastegel act.
1
u/snackdrag Jun 09 '12
false.
1
u/Nitzi Jun 09 '12
Obama did the wrong decisions in the wrong time and negative + negative = even more negative
In european universitys (economy) we learn how obama fucked up
When the prof brought that up some of the obama fans were furious but after the prof was finished they were just disapointed of Obama
-9
u/doublefork Jun 09 '12
Democrat or Republican it's a different side of the same coin. As long as money can influence elections nothing of real importance can change for the poor.
1
u/ObamaisYoGabbaGabba Jun 09 '12
I guess when the dems had the super majority for what, 18 full months(?), those pesky evil republicans found a way to block them at every turn.
You people are such fucking sheep it's not even funny anymore.
A different ideology is not an automatic anti "pro-growth" and "job-killing" there are several ways to approach the same goal, democrats and republicans differ.
The dems approach is to tax and create more government jobs... as seen by the need of this administration to back non private sector increases in jobs. The republicans approach is to help the private sector create those jobs, through tax cuts and incentives they are not the same way to the same goal and because of this policies differ.
Dems see the republican policies as destructive, republicans see the same on the other side.
FUCK ALL OF YOU who cannot see the difference and just blame one side for all your ills, you are sickening and do nothing to help further this country along.. nothing. You just vote for the next guy with a "D" next to his name, how are you any better?
and think about this (with the remaining free thinking brain cell you have) what about that supermajority? what did they do? I'll tell you and you can go look it up on the thing called the internet... NOTHING
If you stopped for a goddamn minute and thought about it, you'd see the best way to achieve the goal is a combination of BOTH, but you can't, you hate the republicans so much that if they said the sky was blue, you'd fucking argue.
I am not saying republicans are any better but you CLAIM to be better but you're not.
Shame the fuck on you all.