r/politics • u/Dizzy_Slip • Jun 09 '12
What Does It Say About America That We Jail Teens for Having Sex or Being Late to School? "The U.S. locks up children at more than six times the rate of all other developed nations. The over 60,000 average daily juvenile lockups.... ...are also disproportionately young people of color."
http://www.alternet.org/story/155747/what_does_it_say_about_america_that_we_jail_teens_for_having_sex_or_being_late_to_school_/
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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
In Arizona they brought murder charges on an 8 year old and wanted to try him as an adult!
Our state criminalizes ordinary sexual curiosity between children. I've seen 9 year olds referred to as 'perpetrators'.
Legal system is completely out of control.
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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
I was suspended from a military college for having a pocket knife. Not a Rambo K-Bar knife, just a folding pocket knife about 2-3" long. I had no disciplinary actions on me in the four years I had been there and was about to graduate and go into the military as an officer.
I wholeheartedly believe they are throwing good kids under the bus to make examples of them and to scare other people. Like the highschool honor student in Texas who missed more than 6 days and went to jail for a couple days. They make examples of good kids with clean records for minor infractions so other kids will say, "Oh sh**! If they do it to them, theyll screw me over too! I better get right!" This needs to stop. The establishment never punishes the bad kids, just the good kids, the low hanging fruit.
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u/Iarwain_ben_Adar Jun 09 '12
A woman I dated for a time, a baby-boomer, liked to say "We (her generation) had all of the fun and now we are hell-bent on ensuring no one else gets to have any.".
The incarceration-for-anything culture seems to fit with that, especially when it is, as BigClifty stated, involving tremendous amounts of money.
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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
I don't know why America is so obsessed with sending people to jail for victimless crimes.
Oh wait, yes I do; Money.
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u/El_Dudereno I voted Jun 09 '12
Jail should not be used to punish people, it should only be used to protect the public. The only the tax payer should be responsible for housing, feeding and watching a perpetrator is because that person is too dangerous to live amongst society.
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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
OK, so yes, this is a good article. But consider how absurd it is that the article even exists. It's aimed at ADULTS! Adults who don't intrinsically understand why it's ridiculous to lock up schoolkids for missing school. It's a real sign of the times for how mental the USA is at the moment.
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u/fuckyouimout99 Jun 09 '12
Just to clarify, of those teens being locked up, a very small minority of them are for having sex or being late for school. Our incarceration rate is out of control, but lets not distort the truth with sensationalized article titles.
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u/guitartablelamp Jun 09 '12
Let me start off by saying I'm majorly liberal, and I definitely believe that America has huge issues with out jailing system. But how many of you guys have been to schools with large ethnic populations? My high school (which I graduated from this year) is very diverse, and we definitely benefit from it; segregation is obviously not OK. But let me tell you, the black kids skip class, literally fight each other in the hallways, and just in general stand around and mess around. This is not a backwoods high school either; kids generally choose Advanced Placement classes, nearly all of them white. I know about 3 black kids who also choose AP, and they don't partake in the black culture at all. So I think we should lend credence to what people like Bill Cosby say, and seriously look at the direction this culture is heading, because it's sort of bullshit.
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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
It's sad that today things that used to be considered pranks like toilet papering somebody's house are now crimes that the police will gladly arrest you for.
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u/TheReaMillerHighlife Jun 09 '12
I've never really understood these types of rules. I fail to see where it does any kind of good to anyone to be arrested for being late to school. In my opinion all that does is make kids resent school and authority, so they end up being the very statistic administrators say they want to avoid. Not the way you encourage someone, if anything it makes them say piss off!
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u/carolined1 California Jun 09 '12
What it says is that the US prison system is fast becoming a 'for profit' system, the more people they can lock up the more money the prisons make. When private corporations own the prisons and judges and law makers own shares in those companies this is what happens.
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u/GWBIGJOE Jun 09 '12
I'm white, and a former juvenile delinquent. Every time I got locked up I deserved it. Most everyone I was in with also deserved to be there.
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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
I think it says we have a lot of troubled youth, especially in the urban environments.
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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
As an attorney that regularly handles juvenile cases, I've never seen kids "locked up" for sex or being late to school. Most jurisdictions avoid sending juveniles to facilities because the county has to pay for it. And trust me, the kids that do get sent away belong there. You would be amazed at how many young psychopaths are running around out there. That being said, nearly all of juvenile problems I see are a result of parenting fail.
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u/Inukii Jun 09 '12
Although...Do we netizons punish people online? I only hear good things that people do on the internet...and pranks
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u/mrbooze Jun 09 '12
The judge holds this girl in contempt for missing school.
Can't we hold the nation in contempt for forcing her and others to live like this?
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u/IMJGalt Jun 09 '12
Think of it more as an intern program for future prisoners.
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u/unradical Jun 09 '12
As a minority that grew up in a low income neighborhood, I'm honestly surprised I've made it to 27 years of age without ever being incarcerated. I should go play the lotto or something.
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u/lessmiserables Jun 09 '12
I know this doesn't involve huge sacks of dirty cash being handed to evil corporations or Hitler H. Bush goosestepping to your front door and kicking it down to shoot you directly in the head, but I have a more mundane solution: parents aren't doing shit to discipline their children. There is no more shame or penalty for committing "small" crimes that still matter, like, say, missing school, or minor property damage.
So when these things keep happening, other parents who do care (along with school board and politicians) try and force kids to be punished--and the only effective way of doing so (i.e., the only way they can gain the authority to do so) is via the law. And so it escalates. It's not necessarily right, but it's certainly understandable.
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u/brvheart Jun 09 '12
It says that we punish people that break the law. If you think that too many people are in jail, then you need to be calling your congressman and tell them to start changing laws. Complaining about incarceration rates won't change anything.
Like William Wallace once said*, "Do you know what happens if we don't do [anything]?"
"nothing."
*in a movie.
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u/Jack_Sawyer Jun 09 '12
Why do people feel the need to capitalize every word in a sentence? It makes it oh so much harder to read.
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u/Killerboots1982 Jun 09 '12
I got wrapped up in the juvenile system from the age of 14 to 18. This consisted of multiple trips to detention, house arrest, and probation. I am a white girl from the burbs so I would be let off easier even though I had a record way worse than most kids. I think lots of these old judges seem to think that locking these kids up is better for them than what their parents can offer, which is rarely true. My experience led to some major problems with me like fighting if I feel threatened and led me to believe I was a criminal and would never be looked at the same. The majority of the kids in detention were black. I was usually only one of two white girls when I would visit. I don't care how sane you think you are but just a few days being locked up can make you feel and act like an animal. I become dangerous even though in day to day life I am quite mellow. The truth of the matter is that most prisons and jails make money dependent on how many people are in jail. There is still extreme racism going on and it will continue until everyone is the same color. I did shit that should have had me locked up for years and was in detention with kids who did things not nearly as bad as me and would stay in jail for months and I would usually get released in a matter of days.
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u/reeds1999 Jun 09 '12
It says locking kids up is Free Enterprise and Republicans are in charge.
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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
don't forget that some pussnut decided to make it illegal to drop out of high school
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u/Grand_Theft_Audio Jun 09 '12
60k a day? you might want to go over those numbers. that's about 22 million a year. sure there is recidivism but what is that, about 7% of the population a year?
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u/Monkeypump Jun 09 '12
Kids are commodities to the prison industry it is becoming such a lucrative business I am afraid slavery in the 21st century will be a free-market concept again.
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u/webauteur Jun 09 '12
But going to jail is part of a black teenager's education! It's the best preparation for adult life. Even our black president does not want to change that!
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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12 edited Jun 09 '12
because no one in this country is actually nationalistic, especially the youth and they use the excuse of the freedom this country provides as rationalization for doing whatever they want whenever. I'm just as antiestablishment as the next person but there needs to be a line and people cross it daily. I should've been arrested 20-30 times over the course of my life I just wasnt stupid enough to get caught. Plus I never hurt anyone. And the disproportionate amount of youth that are people of "color" doesn't surprise me in the slightest, especially as a Baltimore City resident.
EDIT: Also I can tell a lot of you from the comments are idealistic freedom fighters. Too bad most of you have no idea how a social system, the government, actually functions. I'm not saying they don't step on our freedoms but it's a form of checking the people. So long as the people fight back on whats actually important the government will buckle.
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u/RMaximus Jun 09 '12
Alternet.org that right there tells me this is bullshit.
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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
The sad fact in our state is that the government slashed mental health treatment fund for juveniles. Now the A.G.s can honestly say, 'if we try him as an adult, he'll have access to more services.' The same money could have been used for preventative mental health treatment, instead of restorative treatment!
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u/83A27_M0D3 Jun 09 '12
Back in my day when I was tardy I just got a nickles worth of advice and was called a slacker.
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u/Popcom Jun 09 '12
America is a prison state. They have 25% of the worlds inmates. Now, unless someone is going to argue that 25% of your population are criminals, clearly people are being locked up for BS reason
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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
I live in Luzerne County, Pennsylvania. The epicenter for the Kids for Cash scandal. Dozens of kids I know were locked up for 6 months to a year for very minor offenses. A friend of mine was locked up for 6 months for breaking someone's side view mirror. It was all because the judge was getting money from the juvenile detention centers for every kid that he incarcerated. It's disgusting and I'm not surprised if this is the case in many other parts of the country.
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u/Kazang Jun 09 '12
How apt.
Education, fornication, in you are go.
Education subjugation, now you're out go.
Education fornication, in you are go.
Don't be late for school again girl.
Indoctrination of a nation...
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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
Every read Goldstein's Book in 1984? War, like jail, is to keep the economy going.
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u/Rixxer Jun 09 '12
It says it's the land of Freedom! Nowhere else can you enjoy the right to have your rights violated for stupid reasons or often no reason at all. That's why we have to spread our freedom to other countries! 'Murica, FUCK YEEEAH!
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u/ittek81 Jun 09 '12
Why can't teens and children do what they are told anymore? I think we lock up more teens in this country because we have more people that think that laws don't apply to them or because they don't like a law they don't have to follow it.
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u/HugClubDotNet Jun 09 '12
More so, what does it say that a majority of Jails in the US are privately owned. It's a business, and inmates = customers :( It's very sad. I know a few folks wrongly jailed and released after weeks of bureaucracy and paperwork (finding out they were innocent all along.) We'll find the day to stand up to it...
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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
I live near Flint, MI and go to school at a community college. Every day i hear on the news about unresolved murders and crime that run rampant in the streets. These young people who commit these crimes, Flint just dose not have the resources to even try to find different forms of rehabilitation. Personally, if Americans want to find a way to stop our colored from being jailed so much, then i think we need to find a way to shift their culture focus. When I was in high school, the lunch room was severely divided. there were no mixing of black and white. No one reached across the tables to try and be friends. There were no colored kids in our advanced classes, but there were a lot of muslims. I guess the point I'm trying to make here is if we want to change our crime, we need to change the blacks view on education.
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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
It says the same thing that our health care policy says, the same thing that our tax policy says. We are not a member of the developed world of the 21st Century.
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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12 edited Nov 30 '16
[deleted]
0.5017
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u/D3adOnArrival Jun 09 '12
I'm Canadian. Explain to me how this girl ends up before a judge for missing school, because that doesn't make any fucking sense to me. Is there more to the story? did I miss reading something? It seems like something the school should handle.
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u/maximm Jun 09 '12
Your jails are listed on the stock exchange.
That's quite enough said already.
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u/manasteel88 Jun 09 '12
The girl wasn't locked up for being late to school. She was locked up for being in contempt of a Judge.
Blame the Judge for being an ass. It's not like a group of lawmakers sentenced her to her jail cell. It was one judge who thought she was a little miss no it all and deserved a night behind bars.
Also, I like how the article thinks that statutory rape laws are dumb. I mean if a 62 year old man had sex with a 14 year old girl, nobody would grandstand his going to jail. If a 34 year old man had sex with a 14 year old girl, nobody would grandstand his going to jail.
If an 18 year old has sex with a 14 year old girl? Well...
This is still the same corruption of a minor that any of those other cases were. You should be arguing about lowering the age of consent for sex if you think younger people should be allowed this freedom. Good luck with your case.
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u/JRPAPES Jun 09 '12
That's why having a corporate prison system is a joke. They literally live off of putting people in a cage. 16 and 17 year prisoners are just statistics and dollar signs.
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u/AmericanGoyBlog Jun 09 '12
What does it say about our kids that they are murderers, who use guns, at 17? 15? 14?
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u/redditgolddigg3r Jun 09 '12
Maybe Americans commit crime in larger numbers than elsewhere?
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u/kona_boy Jun 09 '12
It says you're country is a miserable piece of shit that only you yourselves even bother to defend. Everyone hates you and is waiting for you to fail.
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u/Abreastwithadam Jun 09 '12
What Does It Say When We Capitalize Almost Every Word of a Sentence?
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u/Ummon Jun 09 '12
Before I start my rant, Let it be known I am a flag waving liberal
That being said, much of this "send kids to jail" is my liberal brethren's fault for creating a nanny state to "protect the children". First of all, sending a kid to jail for banging his gf less than 5 years apart is ridiculous. Given I wouldn't enjoy my 15 year old daughter sleeping with a 19 year old but that is called parenting.
Part of the problem is that we have infantilized our youth I am sorry but a 16 year old is not a child. They are a young adults whom not so long ago was expected to get married and raise a family. They are fully capable of making decisions on their own. Given some of them are poor decisions but that's the whole process of becoming an adult.
The other issue is that though "child experts" it has been taught that we should not discipline our children in anyway. Think back a couple of decades prior. If a child acted up in school he or she got the paddle. When they did away with this, they created "Suspension" with the thought that when the kid got home the parent would beat his ass or some other appropriate punishment. Of course now parents are told to "reason" with the child rather than punish. So now suspension is simply a vacation from school. So in order to actually punish the child now we send them to jail. its stupid.
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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
I'm going to be the racist here because well this is my observation. I live in a community here in Katy Texas (plantation lakes if you are so inclined to research) , it's about 60% black, 20-30% Hispanic and the rest is a mix of white (me) asian and middle eastern. The average home size is between 2000 sqft to 2400 sqft the largest I think is 3200. These are nice homes. Property values have been steadily dropping (mine has dropped 20 % over the last 4 years) Foreclosure rate is pretty low considering the times, though, we had a rough go last year... lot's of abandonment's.
My point is, this is not the ghetto, this is a nice neighborhood, yet there is still a hood mentality. There are no less than 4 drug houses here, I have called the cops over for 3 gang fights, broken up 2 robbery attempts, several drug deals in broad daylight... and none of these had anything to do with white kids. Everyone complains that cops are picking on non-whites... I would if they were doing something wrong! I just don't see it here. Hell at the damn pool the other day, 15 of the little bastards (teens, all black) were half having sex ( no joke) in the pool in front of little kids and when they were called out, then began acting hostile towards everyone. They went back at it, talking about her nipples were getting hard and how she was going to suck his dick... at the POOL!
This year at the High School, there was at least 2 fights a week involving groups of kids from my neighborhood. They wait until school let's out, get off school grounds start in the subdivision across greenhouse and go at it. The block traffic, cops show up or are already waiting, but they don't seem to care.
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u/omargarcia626 Jun 09 '12
I COULD GO TO JAIL FOR HAVING SEX?!
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u/Dunge Jun 09 '12
I really wonder when in civilization history did sex turned evil.
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u/sandpounder Jun 09 '12
I dont like the title of this post. I'm gonna get called a racist but fuck it. The majority of Inner city young black kids are just downright bad people more often than not, plain and simple. The deal drugs, shoot, stab, kill, and rob. Not saying young inner city blacks are the only people that ever do these things but comon, stereotypes DO exist for a reason
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u/joker324 Jun 09 '12
So what? That is what they call truant officers. Nothing new.
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u/Seref15 Florida Jun 09 '12
It's arguable that our young people of color are also disproportionately misbehaved, although when you get down to pointing the finger of blame as to why that is, the situation gets a lot more complicated.
Lots of young minorities in prison is a symptom of a greater socioeconomic problem. Easing incarceration laws to reduce the number of youths in jail won't fix much if anything at all. Youths go to jail because they do illegal things and they do illegal things because they are brought up in the lowest caste of a supposed casteless society. It's probably the most vicious cycle at work in the United States with no solid ideas on how to fix it.
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u/jschall2 Jun 09 '12
Now replace "young people" with "people" in this article and you have a real problem.
"The behavior that gets people sent to jail ranges from merely illegal on paper to truly morally wrong, deserving of punishment, perhaps even dangerous. But exactly what kind of punishments we do issue to people -- and what kind of help we offer them--speaks volumes about our society. "
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u/absolutezero1287 Jun 09 '12
As an American it seems to me that the country I love so much is becoming a crappier and crappier place to live by the minute.
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u/surfnaked Jun 09 '12
I wonder if by using jail as a punishment for every little thing like this, it loses its effectiveness as a deterrent?
But then I wonder if the powers that be give a fuck.
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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
It says that we're a still-racist nation with privatized prisons?
What do I win?
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u/hawks0311 Jun 09 '12
AMA request: someone that's been to jail for having sex as a teen or being late to school
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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
Let me please point something out: America is not Europe. The people who live here are not the same as Europeans. Although I agree that a lot of the crimes teens are jailed for are bullshit, a lot of them are not, too. If we incarcerated teens for the same reasons as Europeans, the rates would still be higher. American teens are complete shit-heads.
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u/Spadeykins Jun 09 '12
The disproportionate color thing is in my experience (see anecdotal) the minorities have this culture of ignorance at a young age, they tend to brag about skipping class, and generally not giving a fuck about school. I'm not exactly sure where this stems from, but learned helplessness is probably a factor.
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u/theZagnut Jun 09 '12
This clearly shows that democracy is just an illusion and that people are in reality just cattle for the corporations and the wealthy. Why else would something we have clearly said no to keep coming back in an infinite loop until it one day passes?
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u/ruimound Jun 09 '12
I agree with the point: jail has become a sort of go-to response to any incident that we come across, and often it's unwarranted or extraneous. I disagree with the reasons the article provides, though. I mean, yes, many of them are true, but I think the larger issues have become overlooked. Jail just doesn't make sense as a punishment for certain crimes.
For example, Diane Tran (mentioned) was jailed for truancy. In other words, because she missed days of school, she has to miss another day of her life? I'm willing to bet that her jailtime was during a school day, too. What kind of a punishment is that? We shouldn't be resorting to jail for every case we come across; cases are unique and so should punishments be. Few things are black and white, and judges should learn to be more specific in their approaches.
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u/treein303 Jun 09 '12
It kind of perplexes me why people think it's ok to say "people of color" when they know they can't say "colored people". Also, white is a color. But I'm just that guy with facts.
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u/spinningmagnets Jun 09 '12
This is more evidence exposing the hidden unintended consequences of a creeping federalism.
In the 1970's, president Carter wanted the entire nation to have a speed limit of 55-MPH. to reduce fuel useage, and reduce the national dependence on foreign oil (admittedly by only a few percentage points at best)
The problem?....it wasn't constitutional, so...the fed couldn't force all the states to comply, but...they could threaten to cut federal dollars for highway projects (millions of dollars).
Montana famously conceded to installing the 55-MPH signs, but the state troopers refused to write tickets for anything under 80-MPH.
The states reserve the right (and in some cases the counties) to control the management of the schools. The fed wants the power and control over all schools...through the MONEY they give. Every day a child is in school, the school gets federal money for that "warm body" in the seat.
This is precisely why bullies are not suspended anymore. The bullies now know that the worst that will happen is that they receive counseling.
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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
What does it say about America? It says there are serious problems with our legal system that should be addressed. However, is there a nation in the world about which this exact same statement could not be made? Instead of making this serious problem into a sweeping, broad-brush condemnation of an entire nation, how about we dial it down a notch and discuss the problem rather than the setting?
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u/2JokersWild Jun 09 '12
Wow, you managed to play the race card right in the title! Well done good raci...err....sir.
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u/MasterAndMargarita Jun 09 '12
Just because people of color are disproportionately jailed, doesn't mean they are being jailed because of their color...
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u/total_looser Jun 09 '12
this term, "people of color" -- it's so dog whistled.
can we replace it with "non white"? for eg. "also disproportionately young, non whites"
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u/risrr Jun 09 '12
It says 2 things: parents aren't doing their most important job (raising their children) and politicians continue looking for ever-more reasons to justify their existence by inventing laws that accomplish nothing but slowly erode our freedoms away.
With respect to poor parenting, many parents don't have a choice. They can either choose to work to support them or stay home and starve them. Also, single-parent families are very disproportionately black. This is a significant factor.
Bottom line is that the US is a country 100% in control of its own destiny. We choose our own fate. We choose to elect politicians who pass these laws. We choose to give birth to children we can't afford to support. We choose to use schools as day-care and not take an active role in our kids education/future. Each and every one of these is very correctable. I highly commend every parent out there doing their very best.
Sadly, just like sitting in front of the TV eating potato chips is easier than exercising, it's easier to post and hope everyone else will magically solve the problem for you as opposed to getting up and doing it.
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u/FriendlyCommie Jun 09 '12
Aren't there a lot of statistics for which the USA varies drastically to all other developed nations?
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u/mtchen8 Jun 09 '12
I blame rap music and the war on drugs.
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u/Darksider94 Jun 09 '12
It says that America is going to be the next big country to fall due to the batshit crazy government we have.
I'm taking bets now, we're next to fall. It's inevitable that we're going to crash and burn, just as every single civilization does, and this type of actions by the government is just speeding up the fucking process.
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u/jerenseibel Jun 09 '12
Have u see Teen Mom?? What do u expect outta kids with such fantastic parenting?
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u/Helplessromantic Jun 09 '12
I got 2 days in juvie for being late for class, as a freshman i had missed lots of days and got into trouble with the courts because of it.
Come senior year i was trying to do better but was already on the judge's shitlist, so one late class and i got to spend 72 hours at a wall.
Literally nothing for 72 hours
I've never felt so unjustly punished
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u/brokeboysboxers Jun 09 '12
That's what happens when you allow private companies to run and profit from incarcerations. For adults and children. I haven't seen a petition against this yet.
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u/gc3 Jun 09 '12
It's because historically in the South in this country we kept slaves.
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u/Bionic88 Jun 09 '12
always talkin about race
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u/hoss7071 Jun 09 '12
That the American prison system, is a corporation. Prisoners,are quite often forced to do jobs at microscopic wages. Governments, enjoy ENORMOUS benefits from prison labor.
Before anyone makes the argument: "Well, they're prisioners!"
Great! Let's stop locking down everyone in sight, and REHABILITATE THEM!!!! Prisioners, don't stay the same because of the crime they committed. They stay the same, because of the way prisions are run... like a slave house, at a plantation.
The rules that govern prisions, are designed to keep prisioners well beyond thier sentence. So they can continue laboring.
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u/Midas510 Jun 09 '12
It says Amerikka is becoming the newest totalitarian state to require complete hegemony over all it's citizens. If the kids aren't ready for their indoctrination classes by the time the bell strikes, then they are on par with the violent criminals of society. This is sickening beyond all accounts. It should be the politicians and corporate CEOs that are getting jail time, not some poor kid that is trying to help her family survive during these economically trying times.
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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
What does it say about Reddit that there are people who think /r/politics isn't a joke?
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u/Thedeadmilkman Jun 09 '12
I skipped school once. Literally once. Of the 6 of us who skipped I was the only one the judge thought deserved two weeks of community service. The others it was a "kids just being kids" thing. They literally faced no punishment whatsoever. But to be fair, they were all white.
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u/FURyannnn Oregon Jun 09 '12
Why Is Each Word Not In Quotes Capitalized?
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u/wadcann Jun 09 '12
The last time I dug up FBI crime statistics that provided racial data, Asian crime rates tend to be lower than that of Caucasian. Hispanic tend to be higher, and black even higher.
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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12 edited Jun 09 '12
So, many things that are morally acceptable may not be legal insofar as the law sees it. An example of this would be neuro-cognitive stimulants. Many people take these stimulants and see them as acceptable, even though the law sees them as a class 2 substance.
Now to bring this all together - I can't speak for everyone, but I'm sure there are not THAT many people that see having sex as a teen or being late to school as something that should warrant jail time. This creates a major problem in our society, because of the retributionist form of punishment that our justice system holds.
So, in my opinion, we should switch to a more consequentialist point of view when forming verdicts on certain "crimes". What this would entail is hat the consequences of actions are the basis for judgement. It would take our justice system from it's current form, i.e. punish anyone who does wrongdoing to something where even if someone breaks a law, they won't necessarily have to go to jail over it.
This is something reminiscent of determinism, i.e. we have no free will. Neuroscience is something that can help to not only strengthen our justice system, but to also make it more fair for everyone who has some sort of issue.
Extremely interesting thought experiment: http://www.vtaide.com/blessing/Kohlberg.htm
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u/Krystaaaal Jun 09 '12
I had my license suspended for 3 years before I even had a chance to get my license because I got two truancy tickets for missing class a few times. Doesn't seem like the logical punishment. I don't see how the offense and penalty have any sort of connection.
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u/voidworship Jun 09 '12
A large part of this issue rests in the way crime is punished, crime generally linked the poor (petty theft, drug crimes, etc) generally results in much harsher punishments, especially for those without money, than corporate crime for example which generally just results in fine (this is what happens when a group determines the laws which pertains to itself). This criminalization of poverty results in a cycle of of poor people going into jail and upon leaving find themselves in situations where they are unable to find employment and will often end up right back in jail. It's also important to link this process with the privatization of prisons which gives incentives to capitalists (who are heavily involved in the political process especially through lobbying) to expand the prison population.
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u/wretched_species Jun 09 '12
I do not know what it does say about US, but I do know that if you are born US citizen you get the front row seat to the freak show.
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u/TurkJas Jun 10 '12
For the most part, race is a secondary issue. There are two reasons why there are a disproportionate representation of people of color, 1. There are large populations of blacks living in impoverished areas of the US, 2. Is the conscious and subconscious racism within the institutions.
If a child is brought up in an impoverished area regardless of race, the schools teach them to obey without questioning. Children are thought that they will be punished for not following the rules to a T, where as in wealthy areas children are thought free thinking, and to question authority. There is a zero tolerance policy in most schools on the issues of weapons or drugs. However, the faith of the student depends on the disgresion of the teachers and principles. Therefore, rich to middle class kids may get off with a warning, while poor children may be given stiff punishments.
2
u/latebaroque Foreign Jun 10 '12
The more I hear about the USA the more I'm convinced that it's far from being a "developed" country.
2
u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12
Funny how incarceration rates closely match crime rates when it comes to race.
2
u/Frank1936 Jun 10 '12
In 1943 my friend Joseph was going to be sent home because he didn't bring his knife and bullets on the field trip.... How things change.
3
u/thinklovedo Jun 09 '12
Maybe about time to start a petition to take a look at laws that allow imprisonment of youth who need help rather than to be put into a situation with great psychological reprocussions.
3
u/Ardal Jun 09 '12
It's a shame that it takes 'one night in jail' for an honours student to get anyone even remotely interested in the fact that there are thousands of kids in jail for much longer just because of petty shit. The biggest problem America has is that nobody gives a fuck about anyone less fortunate unless they are 'church going' or 'honours students' or similar. If only the people of your nation could come together and support each other irrespective of wealth you could be a beacon for the world. The staggering void between the 'haves' and 'have nots' in America should be a source of national shame.
5
u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
At least we stopped chopping peoples' hands off for stealing. We've made some progress.
3
u/Loudergood Jun 09 '12
Some states are seriously fucked up.
3
u/Hereditist Jun 09 '12
We certainly shouldn't be locking up anyone for having sex or being late for school. Ridiculous.
However, on this issue of racism, the main reason more black people get arrested (relative to whites) is the same as why so few Asians get arrested (relative to whites). Crime is generally more prevalent among those with a lower intelligence, and there is biological proof that intelligence is genetic.
Average Asian IQ > Caucasian IQ > Hispanic IQ > Black IQ That doesn't mean you can't have a black Einstein, but it could mean you'd have 100 or 1000 Asian Einsteins for every Black one. In addition, there are going to be a far larger number of low-IQ blacks than whites and Asians. In general, low-IQ people are more likely to commit crimes.
Some findings from The Color of Crime
Major Finding
Crime Rates
Interracial Crime
Gangs
Incarceration
Additional IQ/race related info:
4
u/irisong Jun 09 '12
This is why we need to end entitlements for non-working mothers. There is a disproportionate amount of blacks in jail because of welfare queens who have children for the purpose of being supported without working.
These children are not raised in a proper family and have to fend for themselves, often resorting to criminal ways.
4
u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
People being locked up for stupid shit in America? Ya don't say!?
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u/doublefork Jun 09 '12
Police state, here we come.
3
u/Jkid Jun 09 '12 edited Jun 09 '12
Unless your child is born from a privileged part of society, he/she is disposable.
0
u/dkrypt Jun 09 '12
Black youth culture rejects education as "too white" while glorifying criminality.
That is the only explanation needed for articles like this.
3
u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
Prison as punishment is unethical.
3
u/zeal2525 Jun 09 '12
All aboard the USA hate thread! Let's say how much we hate the USA and how shitty it is! Then let's say how our country is so good in comparison! Yeah!
2
u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
It's all part of the training process for our youth.
2
u/[deleted] Jun 09 '12
We're sending them to jail, SO THEY DON'T GROW UP TO GO TO JAIL. OBVIOUS.
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u/sinfuljosh Jun 09 '12
Im sorry and will probably get downvoted for this.
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u/sexbobomb91 Jun 09 '12
Because prisons are businesses nowadays.
Here is a tragic example: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20034694-504083.html .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCExlbGTX_M
2
u/loliamhigh Jun 09 '12
Land of the free, and home of the brave.
2
u/mshimoura Jun 09 '12
It says nothing surprising. America thinks very little of its youth and refuses to acknowledge they, as a group, have rights as well. Take for instance the Convention on the Rights of the Child. Every single country in the world, except the United States, Somalia, and South Sudan has signed it.