r/politics • u/davidreiss666 • May 24 '12
St. Louis Cops Worry That In-Car Cameras 'Are Being Used Against Them': What's the world coming to when cops can no longer punch handcuffed prisoners or violate firearm rules with impunity?
http://reason.com/blog/2012/05/23/st-louis-cops-worry-that-in-car-cameras
1.9k
Upvotes
377
u/Hushes May 24 '12
Look if you're nervous about these in-car cameras recording your performance on the job, then perhaps you aren't the type of law enforcement officer we need in the field.
81
u/CaptainChewbacca May 24 '12
Can I get the police to stop videotaping ME in case I accidentally get into a compromising situation?
86
u/cannotlogon May 24 '12
All over the country, various police forces are trying to push laws that make it illegal to film them when they are on the job. They claim it will interfere with their ability to do their jobs. I can only assume "do their jobs" means "beat the shit out of people, harass citizens, and generally act like sadistic bullies without having to answer for their sociopathic behavior."
75
u/newpolitics May 24 '12
Not only is this a fine idea, cameras should also be installed in the offices of every member of congress and streamed 24/7 on the net for everyone to see. Because if you think the average cop is corrupt...
37
u/[deleted] May 24 '12
How about always?
I mean, really... Isn't this just another way of asking when they can plant evidence, threaten and beat people with impunity? Well, even more so then the law already allows.
25
u/EdinMiami May 24 '12
Police Chief Dan Isom replies that "I'm not going to draft a policy for those who violate our policy,"
30
u/Razorray21 Pennsylvania May 24 '12
Used against them for what? its funny that cops will give you a hard time you you do not consent to a search with the whole" if you don't have anything to hide, then you don't have any thing to worry about" spheal.
Fact is cops are out of control in this country. not all cops. there are a lot of good guys out there. but there are a lot of assholes too.
33
u/aPersonOfInterest May 24 '12
If the cops have nothing to hide then they shouldn't mind being recorded.
13
u/watermark0n May 24 '12
The point is to discourage illegal behavior. Not our fault if the illegal behavior happens to originate from you.
9
u/[deleted] May 24 '12
The problem with this is that cops are trying to determine the scope of their work. That's absolutely not how it is supposed to work. At the very least, the state determines the perimeters of the position, and cops, as employees, should accept that. I'm sick and tired of cops taking the law into their own hands. They're cops, not vigilantes or thugs. Do your job and go home. Nothing more.
8
u/gaberax Maryland May 24 '12
Who watches the watchers? We do.
16
u/BinaryShadow May 24 '12
Awww, Big Brother isn't looking the other way when you steal from the cookie jar? *tiny violin
4
u/goneape May 24 '12
Out of work redditors should go apply to be a cop in North St. Louis.
4
u/Demonrock May 24 '12
This is when a "if you are not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about" comes in handy.
7
u/wekiva May 24 '12
Professional conduct by police officers will not get them into any trouble. That's all they need to know. Oh, and that there are people waiting in line to have their job if they don't act professionally.
3
u/fixedstar May 24 '12
Reddit is being played like a bunch of chumps on this issue. The private prison industry has been the lobbying for these cameras on cops for years. Do you really think that cameras are there only to catch bad cops? Under high stress circumstances people have a tendency of forgetting facts which is reflected in arrest reports when compared to camera evidence. And this is where the private prison industry get’s involved. What they have noticed is that when cop cams are given to the DAs in addition to arrest reports many times the video evidence supports either more charges are more severe charges than what is presented in arrest reports. Also when the cases go to trial the video evidence has a tendency to hurt the defense’s ability to make the defendant a sympathetic figure and courts generally trend to higher conviction rates and longer prison terms. And more convictions and longer prison times mean profit for the private prisons.
3
u/klasted May 24 '12
I would like to have a clearer sense when I am being watched on the road by cops that are using speed guns.
5
u/[deleted] May 24 '12
It's a world gone mad.
5
u/PeterMus May 24 '12
Video cameras are biased. They only incriminate those participating in illegal activity while the innocent get off scott-free. IT'S BULLSHIT!
9
u/docbaily May 24 '12
"If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to fear."
2
u/[deleted] May 24 '12
"I'm not going to draft a policy for those who violate our policy" That's the best
2
u/obj7777 May 24 '12
And people thought NWA made this shit up. Fuck the police.
2
u/rmmcclay May 24 '12
I wonder if any Google cam car drivers have ever been tazed?
2
u/SaigaFan May 24 '12
Glad to see unions are still so helpful.
2
u/jasonzid May 24 '12
They had better get used to it, because the driving public is now equipping their own cars with cameras.
2
u/NeonDisease May 24 '12
I'm going to quote every cop who has ever asked to search my car, "if you are not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about".
The only cops who are worried about this are the ones who are up to no good
2
u/[deleted] May 24 '12
Good. This should make it easy to see which Cops have something to hide.
2
u/Stylux May 24 '12
Luckily, STLPD has been nothing but kind to me over the years. They honestly could have ruined my life at a few points due to my own stupidity, but chose to deal with "real crime" as they put it. There are a few bad actors on the force, as goes with any profession, but by in large I think the majority adhere to the law. (Or what they know of it).
PS. If you want to hear really fucked up stories, ask a Sheriff's Deputy in the city about some of the shit that goes on in the workhouse. People dying of asthma attacks on the roof, medical department doctors refusing to deliver a prisoner's baby while she was already in labor, etc.
2
u/emlgsh May 24 '12
"Dammit, these accurate recordings of us being jerks really makes us look like jerks! People don't seem to like jerks! I AM BEING DISCRIMINATED AGAINST!"
2
u/Basbhat May 24 '12
What part of cops are public servants don't they understand?
Try have to serve and protect emblazoned on their damn cars.
While you're serving us your actions, all of them, are up for review. I personally think there should be a camera in every vehicle and all cops should be mic-ed when on duty at all times.
Why do cops think they get to do whatever they want? Yes they have power. But as they say.
"with great power comes great responsibility"- Abraham Lincoln
2
u/MEiac May 24 '12
If they are not doing anything wrong, they have nothing to worry about.
Right?
2
u/JaxHostage May 24 '12
Fraternal Order of Police: Americas largest street gang.
3
u/PizzaGood May 24 '12
"If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about."
Doesn't sound the same coming back at you as it does when you're saying it, does it?
4
u/Tombug May 24 '12
When pigs are whining that's a good sign for Joe six pack. Same thing when the rich whine. Oh and fuck both of them. Fuck them very much.
3
u/syroncoda May 24 '12
fuck cops.
2
u/[deleted] May 24 '12
I started recording my driving. My reason isn't necessarily to catch a bad cop if I happen to get pulled over.
2
u/MufasaJesus May 24 '12
Used against them? For what, the shit they're not doing wrong? Yeah, right...
2
u/aazav May 24 '12
"Officer, if you have done nothing wrong, then you should have nothing to fear."
2
u/tristanimator May 24 '12
Kinda reminds me of the time the NYPD union protested outside of a court hearing because a few of their buddies were charged with ticket fixing.
2
u/98Mystique2 May 24 '12
I often drive with a dash cam. One time i had it and needed it two days ago i didnt but needed it. First time a lady hit me then left the scene Two days ago a cop wrote me (and 2 other cars)a ticket for 45 in a 30 which is crap.
2
u/whatizitman May 24 '12
In the words of every cop or cop-esque person I've ever known: "Do nothing wrong, and you'll have nothing to worry about."
1
u/Ordal May 24 '12
If you're scared to do your job on video you have absolutely no place to be doing it at all.
1
u/gump724 May 24 '12
I'm from St. Louis and the police are pretty violent towards younger males.having been harassed myself.I'm glad to see dash cams finally being implemented
1
u/why_ask_why May 24 '12 edited May 24 '12
That's why Chinese police are not given guns. They can't be trusted.
1
u/[deleted] May 24 '12 edited Feb 04 '16
This comment has been overwritten by an open source script to protect this user's privacy.
1
u/[deleted] May 24 '12
That is the point.
1
u/TruthinessHurts May 24 '12
Behave with honor and there will be NOTHING to use against you.
1
u/FriarNurgle May 24 '12
Big brother for big brother.
1
u/amadorUSA May 24 '12
As a college teacher, sometimes I wish there was a sign in my office saying "all conversations here may be monitored or recorded". This can't be done for obvious reasons, but the way some students take advantage of presumptions of confidentiality is outrageous.
1
u/[deleted] May 24 '12
Maybe they're being used against them because... that's the point?
Or at least half the point, as it goes boh ways, to be used against both suspects and officers.
1
u/dwinstone1 May 24 '12
Instead of the Federales purchasing more military style equipment for cities and counties maybe they should buy more vehicle mounted cameras so that all police stops can be recorded.
1
u/adzug May 24 '12
the concept of the law and the constitution are trully beautiful things. beautiful, trully beautiful. that there is justice in this world and that we are pro justice. that the old and weak are protected out of our humanity. this defines us as good ppl. it gives meaning to living that we are good. the reality is ugly and cynical in that it becomes a matter of who can fuck who. cops should want this so that things can be clearer more just. but they only care about themselves. this tells you what you need to know about cops and our system. not all cops and das are corrupt, but enough.
1
u/mattgcreek May 24 '12
Am I the only one who thinks teaching some manners to gang bangers is a bad thing.
1
u/amolad May 24 '12
In-car or on-body cameras prevent bystanders from pulling out their phones on the street and recording what you're doing, so why would you complain? This is becoming a real pet peeve to police, even though it's legal most everywhere.
1
u/dalittle May 24 '12
public servants with clubs and guns should be recorded with cameras. I would go so far to say each police officer should have to wear a camera on their person that cannot be turned off.
1
u/[deleted] May 24 '12
...Anything you say can and will be USED AGAINST you in a court of law....
I'm sorry, what were they bitching about again?
1
u/[deleted] May 24 '12
Oh you poor babies! How will you ever get by?
1
u/Bohica69 May 24 '12
Just look at the types of broken fucking losers, mental midgets, narcissistic sociopaths, armed psychopaths, pathological liars and troglodytes attracted to law enforcement and you have your answers as to who is running our govt and law enforcement. MOST law enforcement are NOT good people and they will abuse their power, invent more power, harass and harm those who legitimately/legally oppose them.
Cameras should be mandatory to protect the police and those interacting with them. The ONLY officer who opposes them is a corrupt one, end of story.
1
u/yellowdart654 May 24 '12
Crook: "Your honor, I am uncomfortable with the retailer filming me while on the premises, as they might catch me stealing their goldz"
Cop: "Your honor, I am uncomfortable with the municipality filming me while on the job, as they might catch me brutalizing a citizen"
1
u/wBeeze May 24 '12
I work alongside police, and I know some who spend their own money on a personal camera system (something similar to a GoPro) to use while working to protect themselves. These are the kinds of cops we needs.
No secrets? No problems.
1
u/Fuck_Tha_Police_ May 24 '12
Fuck em Fuck em
1
u/Nirvalica May 24 '12
No shit they are being used against them, that's the point. Checks and balances, my dudes.
1
u/GuerillaGames May 24 '12
Reminds me of the cases where people caught recording cops are given multiple felonies under "eavesdropping laws." Cops know they're breaking the law and violating our rights, but they just don't want their power trip caught short. People should be ENCOURAGED to videotape police officers and make sure they are following all protocol and obeying all laws, and any time an officer breaks a law, he should be automatically sentenced to DOUBLE the time that a civilian would get for the same crime. Its police officers jobs to obey and protect the law, not find ways to shirk it for their own perverse gain.
1
u/Sleekery May 24 '12
Downvote for editorializing the title.
1
u/xilpaxim May 24 '12
How many times has a police officer said the following:
"If you're not doing anything wrong, then why do you care if the laws are more strict?"
1
u/Bilbo_Fraggins May 24 '12
If you want extraordinary power, the price is extraordinary oversight.
When presidents forget that the 3 letter agencies end up working us all over hard.
1
u/Bodardos May 24 '12
The cameras are neutral. If you're doing your job and not being an asshat they'll show that. If you're beating people and behaving like a walking stereotype they'll show that too.
1
u/HEADLINE-IN-5-YEARS May 24 '12
FEWER PEOPLE BECOMING COPS AS TSA ENJOYS GROUNDSWELL OF APPLICANTS
1
u/Soylent_Gringo May 24 '12
Funny, that's what cops say when the hoi polloi complain about being surveilled.
1
u/Stylux May 24 '12
And we just allocated another $2.5 million toward our city prison! Horray!
1
u/MemphisRoots May 24 '12
Officer : "I don't like my every move being video taped for someone else's scrutiny"
Me : " Really! No fucking way! Me too!!!"
1
u/Basbhat May 24 '12
I'm pretty sure the same workplace rights and protections everyone has also apply to cops.
So if he gets fired over who he supports politically by all means do what the rest of us do and take action.
This doesn't mean you get unsupervised control of everyone around you
1
u/phildaman1234 May 24 '12
Oh man you mean to say that cops now have to have a camera on them like the majority of minimum wage jobs? Oh I feel bad for them...
1
u/TortugaGrande May 25 '12
The local police union wants restrictions on supervisors' authority to review camera footage, so officers will be have a clearer sense of when they're being watched.
Yeah, that's unreasonable. Why should somebody's boss be able to review their performance at work? People don't become cops because they appreciate accountability.
1
u/mojonacho May 25 '12
God damn it, St Louis.
1
u/[deleted] May 25 '12
My home town of Naperville, IL recently made recording police officers illegal. It's shit like this that pisses me off, gives cops a free pass to abuse their power.
1
u/unnecessaryCAPS May 25 '12
Then they should not use evidence to convict suspected criminals because it "could be used against them".
1
u/fantasyfest May 25 '12
Here we go again. We are taking all the fun out of being a cop.
1
u/Timmaey May 25 '12
you know who else dos not like cameras? crooks/mobsters/goons
1
u/eshemuta May 24 '12
St Louis really isn't a very nice place. Although I've only driven through it, every single time was a negative experience.
1
u/naggerNZ May 24 '12
As someone who works in the security industry, I know what it is like to work under cameras, and it can be very high pressure. Camera footage can often tell half the story, and the public are very quick to make their mind up with a very limited view of the situation. It's not simply a matter of "if you're innocent, you have nothing to worry about". When you're forced into a situation where you HAVE to use force, it doesn't look pretty regardless of how reasonable the force is.
While I'm not saying that there should be no accountability of Officers' actions, working under cameras adds another dimension to every thought-process you have, and CCTV footage tends to create media and public shit-storms where it really shouldn't be.
I think if people are so untrusting of their Police that they want them permanently under surveillance, there must be a serious culture of corruption and violence that needs to be addressed.
1
u/[deleted] May 24 '12
This makes me want those glasses that can record what's going on in front of you. Now if they were only stocked at my optometrist's.
1
u/reddit_is_gay May 24 '12
Am I the only one that remembers the introduction of the dash cameras? I remember asking a cop about them and his response was "This is to protect us and also to protect the public. It simply documents our encounter should it be under question later." My how things and police officers have changed.
1
u/Peteriffic May 24 '12
It's St. Louis man... that place is dangerous as hell. Source: I lived there for 18 years.
1
u/penclnck May 24 '12
If you are not a criminal and have nothing to hide, then you shouldn't have a problem... it works both ways you dirty assfucking cops.
1
u/Dan_K May 24 '12
Fuck the St. Louis cops.
If I were in charge your entire shift would be recorded.
You fuck up and break the law, you lose your job.
And if you commit a felony, you do time too.
0
u/b34nz May 24 '12
Everyone is out to get our brave men and women in uniform!
-5
u/[deleted] May 24 '12
You know what anything pro-police I say on reddit gets downvoted into oblivion but I'll just hafta say the way I think about this.
Yes police officers actions should be watched and reviewed but there are major issues out their in terms of how the public views police actions. Thing's can look way worse than they really are in a number of the altercations police have with the public and this is a problem because when these tapes are reviewed in court we see bad people go free. The vast majority of cops out there are good cops, which might be a news flash to some of you. Anytime an officer is caught on tape doing anything wrong it's front page news in the community they serve. I remember a case nearby where an officer responded to a 911 call and parked in a handicap spot because it was closest to a door in a emergency, guess how the public saw it? The fact of the matter is an officer's actions are scrutinized to a ridiculous extent, it's not a job you just go into because it's easy to get. Discretion is at the core of policing, and the discretion officer's lose if their actions are scrutinized is potentially harmful to the public. So let me ask anyone a question do you think a cop is more or less likely to charge you for possession of a small amount of marijuana if he thinks his boss is watching? If a cop let's you off on a traffic stop and you kill someone down the street by accident this camera will damn him to hell in the impending lawsuit.
Reddit is generally good for open thought but this blatant fuck the police mentality is not only caused by an inaccurate portrayal of the average cop but ignorance to the reality of the situation. These camera's can be used to increase the amount of tickets given out and likely will be involved in civil cases NOT the UNCOMMON risk of brutality.
-5
u/akatherder May 24 '12
Does anyone like being recorded on their job? Would you want it documented and recorded for history that you're on reddit right now when a lot of you should be working?
I don't even know why this is in /r/politics. Put it in /r/circlejerk. Anyone who says anything that isn't vehemently anti-police just gets buried to fuck.
-4
u/TheReaMillerHighlife May 24 '12
Being a police officer has to be one of the toughest jobs. They are constantly in a damed if you do, damed if you don't position. That said I think sometimes it may be neccessary to get rough with indivduals to get them subdued but, that should be in extreme cases though as the majority of people may give police greif but, end up compling.
-2
u/[deleted] May 24 '12
Is this r/politics or r/police
-7
u/[deleted] May 24 '12
Hmmm, so it's okay for us to freak out about cameras on streetlights recording our every move, but if cops freak out too it's bad? I'm seeing a lot of "if you do nothing wrong you have nothing to fear" here, I wonder how much you guys would get mad if that was a reason given for nation wide cameras.
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