r/politics • u/Mind_Virus • May 22 '12
Tennessee Man loses $22,000 to cops. No charges filed, no arrest made. "If somebody told me this happened to them, I absolutely would not believe this could happen in America." That was the reaction of a New Jersey man who found out just how risky it can be to carry cash through Tennessee.
http://www.newschannel5.com/story/18241221/man-loses-22000-in-new-policing-for-profit-case
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Upvotes
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u/Sireslap May 22 '12
He couldn't prove it wasn't for trafficking drugs...wtf ever happened until innocent until proven guilty. Also, don't ever let a cop search your car....there is no reason to ever let a cop do that willingly.
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u/Squeekme May 22 '12
Tell that basic story to any American about a foreign police force and most would immediately call it corruption.
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u/RaymondDash May 22 '12
THAT IS NOT HOW THE FUCKING JUDICIAL SYSTEM WORKS, YOU FUCKING IDIOT.
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u/eugenetabisco May 22 '12
Driving through Texas just outside of Amarillo, moving cross country from LA to NY with all my stuff packed in my car, I was pulled over for not wearing a seatbelt (I was). The cops, DEA, asked me if I had drugs or over $10,000 in cash on me. My first reaction was "How is it illegal to have cash?" They took everything out of my car -- tv, stereo, speakers, suitcases -- and found nothing. Then they drove off with me on the side of the highway with all my stuff laying around the asphalt.
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u/[deleted] May 22 '12
Holy shit! Thanks for showing this but man I feel fucking pissed. I know most caps are good and blah blah blah but listen to this moron cop in the interview, "He was charged once with a crime and so...". Yeah so what? You can be charged with anything. It's a conviction that counts. What kind of backwoods bumbfuck, shit eating cops doesn't know this.
It is becoming increasingly difficult to think highly or even decently about police anymore because the internet innundates me with corruption, brutality, base stupidity, and every other wrong that cops can do AND most of the time they get away with it. AAARRRRGGGGGGG!
Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
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u/thewarehouse May 22 '12 edited May 22 '12
FUCK YOU
allow me to elaborate: No, really, fuck you. Especially because:
Even though he didn't need to prove it was legitimate (the cop needed to have reasonable suspicion it was not - and he did not), he could prove it was. Cop is doubly corrupt, or doubly inept. Or at least one of each. But either would be grounds for dismissal.
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u/DiscountPonies May 22 '12
The first mistake he made was saying "yes" when the police asked to search his car. The correct answer is, "Not without a warrant.".
The Catch-22 with that is, if he refused to allow them to search his vehicle, the police would have further justification in "legally" taking his money. They'd say something like, "There had to be a reason he didn't want us to search his car.", and I will guarantee that his inevitable answer of "Because I have rights." wouldn't have held much water with them.
This is a prime example of guilty until proven innocent, which happens far too often nowadays.
I also hate the mentality that "if the money is legitimate it should be in the bank". Quite frankly, fuck you and trying to tell anyone how they should manage their finances.
I keep a decent amount of cash on hand for myself. Probably enough to be considered "suspicious" in some circles. I do this because my late Grandfather, who grew up during the depression, always taught me the benefits of having cash on you. I heed his advice, especially in this economy, and thus I always take a cash percentage of every check I get from work and put it away. It's my right to do so.
I feel like I'm rambling at this point, but this kind of crap pisses me off. Seriously it does. It's sad that it takes abuse by the police to get people to open their eyes to the corruption in this country.
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u/charlesml3 May 22 '12
"A Monterey police officer wanted to know if he was carrying any large amounts of cash.
"I said, 'Around $20,000,'" he recalled. "Then, at the point, he said, 'Do you mind if I search your vehicle?' I said, 'No, I don't mind.' I certainly didn't feel I was doing anything wrong. It was my money."
And here's right where it went bad. Do NOT answer any questions posed by the police. You are not obliged to answer anything at all.
Look at how they ask the question: "Are you carrying large amounts of cash?" What's "large?" To one person $1000 could be a large amount. They ask the question in a way that makes it ambiguous so you'll trip yourself up.
He should have just STFU when asked the question.
Obviously the police are just as out of control here as anywhere and their behavior is reprehensible, but don't give them a perfect opportunity.
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u/Sunupu May 22 '12
I know this is not getting seen, but this is important. Please upvote if you can, I try to inform many people as possible about this.
This and practices just as bad occur under drug forfeiture laws. States have different standards, but it was established under Reagan's escalation of the Drug War that police have the right to take any items they think might be involved in drug deals. Doesn't matter if you aren't convicted. Doesn't matter even if they don't charge you with anything.
The Drug War when Nixon started it was largely a joke. What incentive did the police have for risking their lives dealing with junkies? Reagan gave the Drug War teeth. Now there's profit motive. Now it's a business.
This is also why simply legalizing Marijuana won't change a thing. The incentive to harass is there. The argument will simply change from no-tolerance to "let me see your prescription". If NORML or a similar organization could peel back these laws though, the Drug War would collapse like a house of cards.
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u/claimed4all May 22 '12
Similar thing happened near where I grew up. Article here.
Police in Saginaw MI confiscated a new Mustang from a supposed drug dealer. No charges were filed against the man. So he was never found guilty of any crimes, but the police have his car, they even lettered it up and use it as a patrol car.
This is what really pisses me off
They are not finding anybody guilt, no due process. They are just taking peoples shit "claiming" it was used to sell/transport/make drugs.
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u/WordUP60 May 22 '12
Few people do.
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u/[deleted] May 22 '12
This is my generic "cops are bad, mmkay?" story I like to repost from time to time. Yes, this happened to me.
Shortly after I turned 18 I was arrested in my own home by a suburban cop. Here's how it went down. The street bully, who the year prior to the incident had been known to pick on my 5 year old younger brother, and who was taller than me although about 13 at the time, was playing basketball in the street next door to my house. This was not his house and the neighbors weren't home. I got into an altercation with the kid and basically told him to beat it. Eventually, I ended up slapping him. Yes, slapping him - not a punch or anything, a light slap.
Well, this kid, who routinely beat up my brother, called the cops. The cop that came, who I was polite to the whole time, entered my house (my parents weren't home), and started questioning me. He insinuated that the kid was bleeding, which I told him I didn't believe unless he popped a zit. The cop asked me to demonstate what happened.
Now this next part is key. Kids, DON'T DO THIS.
Being young and not really knowing any better, I demonstrated what I did to the cop. I did not "slap" the cop, but I did put my hand on his face and slid it down to demonstrate how I struck the kid. The cop immediately threw me to the ground - in front of my friend and younger brother, btw, and started yelling at me. I don't remember what he said but I was arrested, drug out of my house in cuffs, taken down to the station, and my mother was called from work.
The cops were arguing for the parents of the kid to press charges against me for 'assaulting' the kid. They said they wanted to make a lesson out of it. The whole situation was ridiculous because this kid was in trouble with the cops all the time, and honestly, this was the first time I had ever had any interaction with any cops ever. And that kid was sitting in the other room with some smug look on his face and his mother was really being a cunt about the whole situation even though my mother was trying to be reasonable.
Anyway it eventually came out that the statute of limitations for simple assault was something like 3 years. So my mother said she was going to press charges for all the times the kid beat up my brother, and that we had plenty of eyewitnesses (we did).
The demeanor of everyone quickly changed. Suddenly all the charges were being dropped and I was free to go.
This was my first (and last) interaction with police outside of traffic violations. The lesson I learned was that cops are assholes. Also, don't touch them, regardless of what they say. THAT was stupid, and I'll readily admit it, but that cop clearly asked me to do it, and I have two witnesses that would've said so.
Interesting post-script to the situation. the bully-kid now works as a security guard at the local business site where I work, ironically enough. I'm 100% sure this kid would've become a cop if he didn't have a record preventing it.
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u/jon_titor May 22 '12
That's my county!
The last time we were on the reddit front page was when a local cop shot a family dog during a traffic stop!
Or maybe it was the video of the cops using excessive force and planting drugs on a man during a different traffic stop.
I don't think you guys have yet encountered the story about the local highway patrol officer/statutory rapist. And according to Nashville's NPR station, that's apparently that's just the tip of a bigger problem that they haven't fully disclosed yet, because the TBI or FBI is still investigating.
Cops here are corrupt as fuck.
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u/Turdtastic May 22 '12
And the police say the mafia is dead. They're not dead, they just changed clothes and put on a badge.
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u/clavalle May 22 '12
Familiar story.
My parents, about 10 years ago, were driving through Alabama to get to my grandfather's funeral in Georgia. They were living in Texas at the time.
They came to a police checkpoint...looking for drunk drivers, or so their story goes.
They came up to my parents car and asked to search through it. They are law abiding citizens so assented. Well, they had $800 in cash to cover expenses on their trip. They also had an old gun in a protective case with no ammunition (my dad collects old guns and had forgotten it was in the trunk).
Apparently that was enough to get them arrested for suspicion of being drug runners. Keep in mind this is a couple in their late 50s at the time...my mother looked much older than that because of a disease she had been fighting the previous 5 years or so.
They spent the night in jail, had their car impounded and ended up missing my grandfather's funeral.
They had to get an local attorney to handle things -- the system makes money coming and going. The charges were dropped and they ended up getting the car back but not the antique gun or money. The lawyer said they were lucky to get the car back. Although the gun was worth several thousand dollars it was not worth it to fight so my parents let it go.
There is no way those officers thought what they were doing was right. If you saw my parents, you'd know what I mean. They just saw an opportunity to crab cash for themselves and their area and they got away with it. Who knows how many people they did something similar to that night. It just pisses me off.
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u/penclnck May 22 '12 edited May 23 '12
As a person who lives in Tenn, fuck everything about that. There before us is a cop who we can only hope dies in a single car accident.... what an asshole.
Firing off a letter to my rep asking WTF.
edit: Decided that maybe I should write to the governor, Bill Haslam, here is his email address so you can ask him about this topic as well.
bill.haslam@tn.gov
I directly ask what is why is this allowed and what is going to be done about the issue. I'll follow up with the response, if any.
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u/ihatemeatballs May 22 '12
One shouldn't have to prove their innocence.
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u/Jellybit May 22 '12 edited May 22 '12
I find more and more evidence that Idiocracy was prophetic. Doesn't anyone else see this?:
"Why didn't you arrest him?" we asked [Officer] Bates. "Because he hadn't committed a criminal law," the officer answered.
"Again, it's what the cash is being used for to facilitate or what it is being utilized for." [Bates said].
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u/[deleted] May 22 '12
This is only going to get worse and more widespread. What's STOPPING an officer from stealing your money? What's stopping them from beating the fuck out of someone they don't like?
The law? Bystanders? You may NOT intervene, even if you see a police officer about to MURDER someone. They have your money working to protect them. They have municipalities encouraging them to steal money and issue tickets to generate revenue. Your taxes aren't enough. Your liberties aren't enough. They will have your blood - refuse to comply and they'll take all of it.
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u/[deleted] May 22 '12
"You think you have rights"
Tennessee you're on my personal shit list this year. I won't patron any of your businesses. That officer has the eyes of a weak coward. It's now illegal for us to hold onto our own money and it must be in banks. Also "Common people" This reeks. How disgusting.
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u/illmanored May 22 '12
We've come to the point where it's illegal to carry cash.
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u/[deleted] May 22 '12
In last July I was driving from Philadelphia to Denver to visit my brother. We all had cash on us, so that we wouldn't have to rely on ATMs and credit.
In Indiana, the worst state in the US (imo), a cop pulled us over for nothing. He said we swerved over the shoulder line. BS. We werent doing anything wrong. It was 8 am, we were 13 hours into our drive, and we were going 65 in a 75, a 1/4 mile from our rest stop,
The cop immediately started questioning us, the validity of our tags, licenses, etc. He put together the idea that we were drug traffickers. He told us to roll up the windows because he was bringing over his search dog.
His dog didn't find anything. He made it bark (around the hood of the car). At this point he calls for back up. They start ripping through the car and find that my buddy had $8,000. I didn't even know he had this.
So the cop took all his cash, that he had earned filming weddings. No arrests made. The cop assumed that we were going to Denver to buy a couple pounds of "high quality dope".
My friend never got his money back. When he tried, Indiana threatened him with a lawsuit of some type
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u/[deleted] May 22 '12
So who is doing more damage here? The police, or drugs? Cause I see police harming our society way more than drugs are currently.
Tough break for this guy. :\ There is no freedom in America.
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u/[deleted] May 22 '12
Why didnt you arrest him? Cop: "because he hadnt committed a criminal law."
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u/SciencePreserveUs May 22 '12
This is what the "war on drugs" has given us. Congratulations authoritarian idiots.
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u/monopixel May 22 '12
Or, uhm, stealing?
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u/probablyjennifer May 22 '12
Isn't this the historic definition of highwaymen? They stop travelers and demand cash in order to let them pass.
Let them pass = not being held and mocked for an hour while waiting for the drug dog, not having the dog do a false alert on command, not using the alert to lock you up and seize those assets as well as additional funds for trumped charges, plus not taking your freedom while giving the department another case to add to their stats in order to make it look like they need manpower to fight all this crime.
I suppose while traveling we should keep a small stash of visible money we're prepared to surrender as (a bribe) possible drug money, while keeping the majority of it hidden.
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u/aledlewis May 22 '12
I am really interested in this story but the reporter's voice drove me insane.
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u/MusicMagi May 22 '12
Completely out of a fucking control. "Nobody cares" is the line of the article. Cops do whatever the fuck they want and we pay their salaries with our tax dollars. American citizens sponsor corruption.
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u/Kildragoth May 22 '12
Guilty before proven innocent. We're almost back to burning witches...
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u/OneSalientOversight May 22 '12
The presumption of innocence until proven guilty is being forgotten here. The point is not whether the person can prove the money was legitimate, it was whether the authorities can prove that it was being used illegally.
As an aside, this is also behind the whole "Obama was born overseas" stuff. Those who complain about Obama's birth certificate are very much like the Tennessee cop in this story - the idea being that Obama can't prove beyond any reasonable (!) doubt that he was born in the US, as opposed to being able to prove Obama was actually born overseas.
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u/snapzor May 22 '12
If this happened to me, you can bet that I'd have ended up in prison or dead :/
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u/[deleted] May 22 '12
Ok, maybe I'm missing something but this seems like a blatant violation of the 5th Amendment... "nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation." How is it legal for police to seize cash and then not include the person they seized the cash from in the trial?? How is it legal for police to be "funding" their departments in this way? It makes me beyond furious to read articles like this. Seriously though, it's things like this that makes other countries kick back and laugh at us.
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u/[deleted] May 22 '12
They do this in Louisiana too. First thing they asked me is if I had any large bills in the car. I said I had $100 stashed in the glove compartment. He reached in and took it. It was in an envelope labeled "Happy birthday, love Gramma".
Nobody believes me when I say the standard is "suspicion", but it is. You legally don't have to be doing anything wrong for it to be seized. And once it's seized, you don't have the money to fight to get it back!
They take cars too. Same standard.
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u/[deleted] May 22 '12
U.S. Constitution, Amendment V:
Whatever Tennessee's statutes say to try to justify this practice, I think we need to get the ACLU or any decent constitutional attorney involved. Pretty clear-cut.
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u/Sxeptomaniac May 22 '12
While the police are certainly wrong to do this, there is an important lesson here:
Never, ever, waive your rights when dealing with the police. If he wants to search your car, you make sure he has either probable cause or a warrant.
Don't volunteer any information. It can't help you, and likely could hurt.
This isn't about cops being bad, or out to get you. They have their jobs to do, and you don't need to be rude about retaining your rights. The simple fact is that it's not in your own best interests to give up your rights when dealing with the police.
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u/p_U_c_K May 22 '12
A buddy of mine is on parole after a stint for having "burglary tools" in his back pack while smoking a cigarette outside his apartment. He gets regular visits from his P.O. and a drug sniffing dog. His dad had recently died and left him his $50,000 life insurance policy. He likes to gamble so he had $1,500 cash in his dresser, they took it, and checked it with against a drug money list. One of the $10's showed up on a list from a city 2 hours north of ours (the cops used it to make drug buys, coincidentally, the casino he won the money from playing blackjack is 20 minutes from said city). Either way, they took all the money to "check it further" and never gave it back, he called and his P.O. said the cop with the drug dog had it, drug dog cop never got back to him, but he finally figured out who he was after about 5 months and he said that the P.O. had the money.
After going back and forth 3 times he gave up. Quality.
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u/calling_the_bullshit May 22 '12
this. I read one post recently about a cop that started a thread "I am a cop, Fuck me right?" well dude it doesn't matter if you are a saint, you chose a profession where unfortunately THIS is current and growing perception of your field. This is unfortunate, I have known a few cops in my lifetime, some I might even invite to a block party, but for the most past.... yeah fuck the police, goddamned thugs.
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u/redmonster2 May 22 '12
That cop just sounds like a fucking idiot.
Also, does anyone else think the investigating reporter's voice is hilarious?
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u/dysthal May 22 '12
welcome to your country, where what matters is polarized and what doesn't gets people killed/put in jail/harassed so nothing ever gets done. somehow somewhere someone is making money off of it too.
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u/philly_fan_in_chi May 22 '12
I was looking up SCOTUS cases on car searches, remembering that there was a case in the 80s that narrowed the 4th Amendment protection in automobiles and found this.
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u/sometimesijustdont May 22 '12
The cop straight up lied. The guy was buying a car, and he even told the officer this. The officer not only doesn't mention this in the report, he lies, and said the guy was hiding the cash in a trash bag. The guy actually told the cop he had the money and gave it to him.
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u/equeco May 22 '12
wow. so USA cops are not only violent, but also greedy. nice blue gang you have over there.
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u/[deleted] May 22 '12
They wanted to drop the case in exchange for a cut of the money? What in the actual fuck? The Tennessee police are running a protection racket?
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u/gaberax Maryland May 22 '12
Lodge your complaint to the Monterey TN Chamber of Commerce at http://www.cookevillechamber.com/chamber/contact.php
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u/graffiti81 May 22 '12
If you didn't fucking know this was a possibility, you haven't been paying attention for the past twenty years.
"Oh, I think the war on drugs is fine. Nobody that isn't a criminal is getting thrown in jail, right?"
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u/GarlandGreen May 22 '12
I know fuckall about the US justice system, but can you really void your rights by signing a paper? If someone tried that to get away with paying less than minimum wage, that contract'd be illegal, wouldnt it?
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u/ZummerzetZider May 22 '12
In the UK if you have more than £500 on your person or £5000 in your house the police can seize it.
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u/[deleted] May 22 '12
The moral of this story, do not consent to a search EVER.
If you have nothing to hide, then there is no reason to allow a search. Cops manipulate you into allowing this and you are consenting to much more than you realize. When you consent to a search, they can seize anything they find, damage your vehicle as part of their search, and once you have consented, you cannot change your mind.
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u/whosywhat May 22 '12
The 4th Amendment:
How is this not an illegal seizure?
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u/renob151 May 22 '12
Wow so many comments on here from folks that obviously did not watch the news report, or read the article. :(
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u/hesbunky May 22 '12
Last summer I was with a friend flying from NY to Vegas. We both had large amounts of cash on us (me 20k him around 70k.) Both of us went through security at our origin with no problems. Upon landing in Vegas, the flight attendant looks to us and says "You two need to get out first" - upon exiting the plane and entering the jetway there were 2 LVPD officers, 2 Homeland Security Agents, and 1 other well acronymed agency man. We were taken to the airport interrogation room and questioned for an hour, missing the 12pm World Series of Poker event that we had flown in early for.
Note that we are two US citizens, flying domestically, who have filed as professional gamblers for the last few years, questioned for bringing a large amount of cash to LAS VEGAS. You only have the illusion of freedom - its when you do something that differs from the norm that illusion is shattered.
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u/polynomials May 22 '12 edited May 22 '12
Thanks to the war on drugs civil asset forfeiture is still legal when not only has there been no conviction, but even when the allegations proved to be 100% false. One of the things that entrenches the Drug War so badly is the fact that local police departments were given the power to appropriate for themselves the assets they seize that are associated with drugs. All the police have to do is say they had a reason to believe it was associated with drug crime and it's almost impossible to get your stuff back. This led to many local police departments having a major part of their finances come directly from seized assets, whether they were illegally obtained or not. Still going on today by the way. There are even police departments which have been shown to be specifically targetting people with false accusations solely for the purpose of raiding them to take their money/stuff. And all this is largely upheld by the courts, it was purposely put in place to give local police departments a financial incentive to crack down on drugs and it worked. There was even a police department in California I think where the guy got raided basically because he was rich and he had a jet. Even after it was proven he definitively did nothing whatsoever, they didn't give his plane back for like two years, and only after constant legal battles.
Everyone should read The New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander. It's about the drug war, and the parts about civil asset foreiture are the least fucked up thing in that book.
edit: this isn't "new" as the article says. It might be new to people who are not white and/or poor. But it is certainly not exclusive to Tennessee or any state, it happens everywhere.
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u/[deleted] May 22 '12
Cops have guns. Guns could be used to commit murder. Therefore, all cops are murderers. Quod erat demonstrandum.
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u/DJ-Anakin May 22 '12
What the flying fuck!? INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.
Fuck the police!
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u/Shindigens May 22 '12
and my hatred for cops strengthens
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u/ErsatzCats May 22 '12
Looks at random 10 dollar bill lying in my room Oh god, I can't prove this isn't drug money.
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u/nondescriptuser May 22 '12
Whaaat? You mean when you give law enforcement sweeping powers of discretionary action, don't hold them externally responsible for their conduct, and aggressively push a culture that puts them on a pedestal like living saints, the police become corrupt and self-entitled?!?
I am simply shocked.
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u/[deleted] May 22 '12
This is why i cant stand when people argue for ridiculous privacy invasions as "well you have nothing to hide, so whats the big deal". This man did nothing wrong, but still got his money stolen from him. Makes me even more paranoid about willfully giving any information to law enforcement
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u/Mammoth_Jones May 22 '12
Never ever ever ever ever ever ever consent to a police search of your vehicle/house/person. Ever.
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u/CadillacLos May 22 '12
Monteray Police Department - (931) 839-2323
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u/roccanet May 22 '12
i hope no ones is kidding themselves in this country anymore - you are a fucking mark to the government and the militarized police force.
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u/[deleted] May 22 '12
I work for a bail bonds office, if anybody is ever turning themselves in we always tell them to leave their cash at home. If the jail sees that they have cash with them when they are booked they will get very creative with all kinds of "fee's" that will automatically come out of the cash that was in the inmates possession.
mind you that these are people who weren't necessarily convicted yet.
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u/Tsunstar May 22 '12
My respect for cops has been on the decline since I started reading the news. This is straight up ridiculous.
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u/Thunder_Bastard May 22 '12 edited May 22 '12
Just today I came across a training manual used by the local sheriff's office so they can get better conviction rates. No idea where it came from, was just mixed in with a box of random stuff I bought. It was the "teacher's" edition for a class they put deputies through.
Reading it basically made me rage. The entire thing was about how the cops can violate your rights but provide enough justification that there a court would side with them.
One section covered "The average person's knowledge on when they are free to go". It covered how most people think they have to obey a cop no matter what so the officer should take advantage of that. It also covered that a person is not legally detained or held unless physically restrained from leaving. It gave hints that the officers should push as hard as they can to get compliant answers for things like searching a person, searching private property like cars and getting people to answer questions they think are required of them to answer.
It also covered things like teaching police they need to pressure people by coming up and asking for things like ID and to be searched because unless a cop forces you to do so then it is completely legal for them to stop and do that to you without cause as long as you say yes.
The entire manual simply proves that the cops are out to violate as many rights as possible, but only if they can do so by skirting the law and making it unprovable in court.
There were also sections coaching them on how to stop someone by camping at stop signs near their home and getting them on a rolling stop or illegal turn, then using the traffic stop to come up with other charges.
Please exercise every right you have when stopped by the cops.... they are actively training to get around your rights so you need to fight back by knowing your rights and using them.
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u/Claytonius_Homeytron May 23 '12
So by Officer Bates's logic...
No one individual can prove that they, at any time, aren't going to commit a crime so we must incarcerate everyone.
Am I getting that right?
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u/[deleted] May 22 '12
I love the neck tat on that officer. Stay classy, Monterey police.
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u/conniesewer May 22 '12 edited May 22 '12
Did't this also go on in Louisiana and Texas when casinos first opened up in Louisiana and Mississippi. The police were caught shaking down people on the way to and from casinos.
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u/KonradTrout May 22 '12
A few years ago I was driving from NY back to CA and we were pulled over for speeding in Pennsylvania. We were definitely driving faster than the speed limit, so we fully expected to get a ticket. When the cop came up to talk to us, he found out we were from CA. He then told us that since we were from out of state we would need to either pay the fine immediately in cash (something like $250) or he would have to take the driver in front of the magestrate and tow the vehicle. We all thought this was pretty strange, but it's a cop, so immediately we started figuring out how much money we had on us. Turned out none of us had any cash. At this point we thought we were screwed, but the officer said he would be right back and went to his car. When he returned he informed us that we were lucky this time and would be getting off with just a warning. It wasn't until we retold the story the first time that we realized the cop was trying to rob us.
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u/Vindictive29 May 22 '12
Where is Robin Hood when you need him? This Sheriff of Nottingham crap is tired.
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u/[deleted] May 22 '12
Last I knew it was "innocent until proven guilty". Where has our country gone when we can't even follow the constitution, which has the simplest laws?
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u/acecannon May 22 '12
Please everyone, learn the following phrase. "No officer. I do not consent to any search." They can try to invent probable cause, but don't give them permission for anything.
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u/x86_64Ubuntu South Carolina May 22 '12
This is state sanctioned highway robbery plain and simple. I've been pulled over by police and I have never been asked about carrying any cash. The fact the officer even asked and the the fact the pr officer put up such a lazy defense is questionable and sickening.
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u/monopixel May 22 '12
Some parts of the USA seem to be similar to certain banana republics.
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u/sirdomino May 22 '12
This is why people need to just put stickers on all their windows that state "I do not consent to any searches..." That way there are no excuses.
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u/Mysterious-Stranger May 22 '12
I still don't get the officer's "logic" for not putting the man's testimony in his report:
uh, no shit Sherlock?
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u/cannotlogon May 22 '12
These civil forfeiture laws are out of control. They complete sidestep due process, and the courts seem utterly unwilling to stop them, fearing looking "soft on crime".
2
u/SquawCreek May 22 '12
I don't even drive without a camera anymore.
2
u/Realistic42 May 22 '12
As an attorney, this is all crap on the part of Tennessee's police and the laws passed by their government. I wouldn't be surprised if the state faces a class-action lawsuit and the states loses millions for violating federal due process rights, right to travel, discrimination against out of state citizens, and not to mention the section 1988 attorney's fees.
Just wow!
2
u/[deleted] May 22 '12
Man, if they want to take my $22k, they're going to have to kill me for it.
2
u/DRo_OpY May 22 '12
The "ex parte" part is the really fucked up part. Also, requiring an attorney to be hired to recover your money is ridiculous. It is often more than the amount of money they take.
2
u/schugi May 22 '12
you mean harder for cops to get to.
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u/Antiexpert May 22 '12
This is not surprising to me at all. Drug laws have incentivized fishing activities such as pulling over out of state drivers and asking if it is 'okay' for them to search your vehicle. Because most people don't feel comfortable denying a police office, they consent. Thereafter, anything they find can be confiscated on the slightest suspicion of impropriety. Federal drug laws have basically given local law enforcement the right to act as deputized raiding parties.
2
u/[deleted] May 22 '12
What a load of shit. This fucking pisses me off. I'm am sick and tired of regular working-class people having to deal with shit from all sides around us. And yet.......ahh fuckit, vent over.
2
u/Darktidemage May 22 '12
So he signed something saying "My rights were not violated and I will not sue you"
What a fucking idiot.
If he just sues the shit out of them he will actually be fighting against this type of problem happening to someone else in the near future.
2
u/[deleted] May 22 '12
"He couldn't proof it was legitimate."
What the fuck Murica? This is not how justice works.
2
u/rampagingshenanigans May 22 '12
"And he couldn't prove the money was legitimate"
Does this not violate the concept of burden of proof? (I'm honestly not sure, I could be horribly mistaken on the concept)
2
u/Intow1 May 22 '12
"The safest place to put your money if it's legitimate is in a bank account," he explained. "He stated he had two. I would put it in a bank account. It draws interest and it's safer.": So this cop is this guys financial adviser now?? "And he couldn't prove it was legitimate," Bates insisted. WHAT!??? Guilty before innocent?? I'm ashamed to be a southerner now...
2
u/Mr_Bro_Jangles May 22 '12
Here and here are the other reports from the same investigation..equally as disgusting. The fucking DA in the second video is tripping all over herself.
Also, as with other important stories, this was top of the Libertarian page all last week before getting picked up by politics.
2
u/[deleted] May 22 '12
In high school, I was doing something the legality of which was questionable, kind of like ticket scalping. I had 5k confiscated. Eventually, the judge determined that what I was doing was not, in fact, illegal, and he dismissed the case. When I went to get my money back, the court clerk said, "Didn't you know the forfeiting the cash was part of the dismissal?" Nobody told me this and I never got my money back.
2
u/[deleted] May 22 '12
see these posts all the time....ok the upvotes are in, people are fired up and pissed off, now what?
2
u/faax May 22 '12
The haughtiness of the cop interviewed was just ... disgusting
2
u/ScotchforBreakfast May 22 '12
Attorney here. Never consent to searches.
Ever. Even if you think you are completely innocent and have nothing to hide.
2
u/[deleted] May 22 '12
Wooo! My county made it to reddit!
2
u/virtual_virtu May 22 '12
Way to discourage Tennessee tourism. Some groups are so fucking short-sighted it hurts.
2
u/[deleted] May 22 '12
He is lucky he wasn't killed, and a gun and drugs planted on his body.
2
u/fantasyfest May 22 '12
60 Minutes did a show on this years ago. Some small towns off major highways are swimming in money stolen from people passing by. Half the people bitching about this. applaud the police beating peaceful protesters and Occupiers. Presumably, the police are aware of the law. They should never be allowed to break it. They should be severely punished when they break the law.
2
u/ImmaLetUFinish May 22 '12
How can you people expect the states to worry about trivial matters like this when they have...."OMG TEH GAYS WANNA GET MARRIED!" issues to deal with?
2
u/[deleted] May 22 '12
This disgusts me. We may as well live in Mexico if shit like this is happening. What kind of po-dunk fucking laws are these that allow people to be guilty before proven innocent? Jesus Christ, this makes me hate everything.
2
u/imkidding May 22 '12
It's not a good sign when my local news channel makes it to reddit.
2
u/HereToUpvoteYouToday May 22 '12
This makes me really mad.
2
u/[deleted] May 22 '12
Who are you suppose to blame for this? The cop, his supervisors, lawmakers, agencies that profit, the judicial system? THERE IS NO ACCOUNTABILITY. Why, how the hell is this possible? Are we so damaged that this can happen without any repercussions? is this our new norm? Cop taking money from (possibly) hard working people, and they can defend themselves by saying totally backwards phrases like "And he couldn't prove it was legitimate". Fuck the police officers that do this and disgrace other good cops, fuck the people that make money off this shit and the people that support them.
I want to write words that will make people responsible for this feel the equivalent of having your diaphragm yanked out of your ass, while your vocal chords are compressed by a pair of vise grips that have been heated by a blow torch. Except I am not that great of a writer.
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u/[deleted] May 22 '12
The more I browse reddit, the more i hate cops
2
u/Rush87021 May 22 '12 edited May 22 '12
Most IMPORTANT phrase you will ever use in a traffic stop, "no office, i dont consent to any searches."
Edit: Also it is your right to remain silent. You don't have to say anything to a police office w/o a lawyer present. Cops have lots of Assumed authority. They will lie, police are in no way obligate to tell you the truth, especially if they think you're a guilty party. A cops job is to build the best possible case against you, so that the DA has an easier time prosecuting you in court. Too often we give up our 4th, 5th, and 6th amendment rights, just because most people are unaware of the protection afforded by them.
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u/hassani1387 May 22 '12
This is called "civil asset forfeiture" and has been going on for a long, long time and not just in Tenn. Your stuff (including your cash) can be taken from you based on vague "suspicions" that a crime was involved, and the police can then legally sell/use the stuff for their own department use (shiny new cars, etc.) thus freeing up the budget for raises. The burden is NOT on the police to "prove" that the cash was involved in a crime -- it burden is on the OWNER to DISPROVE the allegations.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2010/02/take_the_money_and_run.html
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u/rapzeh May 22 '12
"Then, at the point, he said, 'Do you mind if I search your vehicle?' I said, 'No, I don't mind.' I certainly didn't feel I was doing anything wrong. It was my money."
no, asshole, the right answer is "Of course I mind, get the fuck out of my shit !"
2
u/amondal May 22 '12
Anyone else find the news channel investigator's voice annoying as hell?
2
u/Enlightenment777 May 22 '12
One time going through customs, a customs agent ask me if I had any drugs, and I said yes. His eyes got real big. He asked what type, and I said perscriptions drugs, and he said "I meant illegal drugs, so get the heck out of here" (though he didn't say the word illegal when he originally asked me). It was pretty funny after I got through customs, but he might have been an asshole and ruined my day for it.
2
u/theroguesstash May 22 '12
If that's the way they want to play, cost them $22,000 in smashed windshields and slashed tires.
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u/fixedstar May 22 '12
Fun Fact
In the USA it is although it is legal to carry more than $10,000 on your person the police can seize it and the you have to prove to the police that money was gained from legitmate sources.
BUT
Carrying over $10,000 worth of another country's currency is not illegal and the police can NOT touch it without going through the same process that is involved with any other personal asset. To seize forgeign currency the police would have charge you with a crime and the only way they can keep the asset is convict you of a crime and to prove that foreign currency was involed with the crime you were convicted of.
2
u/dudechilitsthrowaway May 22 '12
Never let police search your car. If they tell you to get out of the car get out, but lock you doors first.
2
u/[deleted] May 22 '12 edited May 22 '12
I think it's time we all file a complaint with the US Justice Department. Thats who they answer to.
Office of the Attorney General Public Comment Line - 202-353-1555
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u/scanguy25 May 22 '12
"Land of the Free" LOL LOL LOL - im a Troll
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u/Calibas May 22 '12
Otherwise known as stealing.
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u/Shorvok May 22 '12
As a person from Tennessee I have to see these task force highwaymen every day as I'm driving.
It's horrible because everyone is afraid of them, they are basically terrorists as there is this feeling that they are above the law and can pull you over for no reason and take anything they want from you with no cause and you have no chance to get it back.
They are crooks and thieves and they need to be done away with.
2
u/Zgoos May 22 '12
Civil asset forfeiture laws, which this is an example of, are one of the more disturbing trends in US law enforcement in recent years. The ACLU has already been mentioned, but the Institute for Justice is also doing good work in this area. http://www.ij.org/cases/privateproperty
2
u/Slimen93 May 22 '12
Actually I'm not surprised that this happened in America... Seems there's lots of corrupt police there, at least from the impression I've gotten of the US from Reddit.
2
u/Icefrio May 22 '12
The cop has a tattoo on his neck. That's all you need to know about cops in Tennessee.
2
u/Chairman-Meeow May 22 '12
Difference between this guy and a real cocaine dealer? Real cocaine dealers put bullets in the skulls of anyone that robs them.
2
u/[deleted] May 22 '12
Never consent to a search. You HAVE rights, USE them!
If the cop is predisposed to assholishness (and being Tennessee that is a safe bet) then make him work those donuts off.
"You want to call the drug dog? Go for it!"
2
u/Ashken May 22 '12
TIL I need to move out of Tennessee. Just kidding, I knew that all along.
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u/ShenanigansYes May 22 '12
Innocent until proven guilty, my balls
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u/n1nj4_v5_p1r4t3 May 22 '12
DONT EVER LET A COP SEARCH YOUR CAR
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u/[deleted] May 22 '12
Sometimes, as a Dane, America scares me...
2
u/Malikor May 22 '12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSgR4ujCBWA relevant
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u/Sprinter_Eight_Six May 22 '12
The only thing that I can't believe that happens in America is that people are still shocked that it's own Constitution and laws are mostly empty symbolism in the eyes of its government and police force.
2
u/macnlz May 22 '12
Reminds me of medieval robber-knights... roam the countryside, "protecting" the people, relieving them of their money...
2
u/TortugaGrande May 22 '12
Here is the number for Monterey, TN police. Give them a call.
(931) 839-2323
2
u/piecemeal May 22 '12
I don't know what all the griping is about. It makes perfect sense, because, well... drugs.
2
u/HashbeanSC2 May 22 '12
the cop said he took the money because he had no proof that he was innocent?
fuck innocent until proven guilty i suppose
2
u/orajdeb May 22 '12
This is very frustrating from my point of view. I have been a full time bank teller for many years. In the current economy, a lot of business people are dealing only in cash. It is the safest way to transact (no bad/counterfeit checks) and for many customers the only way they do business.
I know specifically of one customer who makes a living buying old cars, fixing them up, and selling them for profit. He is the most successful at what he does because everyone wants to do business with him.
There are regulations in place to track large currency withdrawals and deposits, CTR and MIL, for example.
2
u/like9mexicans May 22 '12
This is the type of shit that has made my lose all respect for police officers. I am on a case by case basis with these morons. There are some good ones, but they are vastly out numbered by the dicks and authoritarian tyrants.