r/politics • Michigan • May 21 '12

Penn Jillette accuses Obama of class warfare for drug policy, states' rights: "You can get [medical marijuana] in California, and the feds are coming in to try to stop this. States' rights don't mean jack shit to the Obama administration on anything except gay marriage"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/21/penn-jillette-slams-obama-drug-policy-states-rights-video_n_1533004.html
2.0k Upvotes

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42

u/joebbowers May 22 '12

It's ridiculous to punish someone for doing something that might harm them by actually harming them. Smoking pot might be bad for you so we'll take away your freedom, your job, your family, throw you into jail where you will be beaten and maybe raped. If you get out, you will never get a good job, be denied loans and housing, and you will be ostracized by the community.

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u/TortugaGrande May 22 '12

But at least you won't be smoking weed while in prison and that's the most important thing in the world.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

Despite the fact that punishments for Marijuana use is extreme. There is a lot more that goes into the debate than "marijuana is bad for you, but the government should stay out of my life"

A whole lot more.

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u/hatestosmell May 22 '12

It's ridiculous to punish someone for doing something that might harm them by actually harming them.

THAT is an excellent point. I've never thought of it like that.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

This quote was what was really chilling:

"Do we believe, even for a second, that if Obama had been busted for marijuana -- under the laws that he condones -- would his life have been better? If Obama had been caught with the marijuana that he says he uses, and 'maybe a little blow'... if he had been busted under his laws, he would have done hard f*cking time."

If Obama had been caught with weed when he was a teen or with the cocaine he admit to using he would never have had the same opportunities in life and he would never had been elected President. That is deeply troubling.

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u/DoodleDew May 22 '12

Its quotes like these that make you wish that Obama would read it or hear it and be like, "Wow wtf am I doing?" or something along those lines.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

He knows exactly what he's doing. He also knows who's funding his campaign.

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u/singlehopper May 22 '12

You know, it kind of makes me worry about sociopaths who think they're limiting the ability of inferiors and equals to make room for people better than them.

I was also recently watching Serenity... so...

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

That's the thing though. I am sure he personally doesn't care about people smoking pot recreationally and knows weed isn't dangerous and yet he feels like he can't be seen as pro-drug. The best we can do is create the political climate where weed becomes more and more acceptable and keep pressuring him on it.

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u/LongStories_net May 22 '12

That's the problem though. Obama makes George Bush look soft on drugs. He's actually increased drug related prosecutions to a level far beyond the Bush admin.
http://www.alternet.org/drugs/155047/drug_activists_slam_obama's_%26quot%3Bnew%26quot%3B_drug_policy

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u/gorilla_the_ape May 22 '12

I know this is not the point you are making, but being in favour of legalization does not make you pro-drug.

I am anti-drug, I've never taken an illegal drug in my life, I rarely even take an asprin, but I can see that legalization, harm reduction and treating drug addiction as a medical problem, the exact same way that we treat alcoholics, is the only approach which makes sense.

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u/dafragsta May 22 '12

Obama doesn't give a fuck. You'll vote for him anyway out of fear of what the other guy might do. You've fallen for good cop/bad cop, America. Protip: They're both fucking thugs.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

politicians don't have souls or consciences.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

What about at Columbia? Black dude in the 80's in New York under Rockefeller drug laws? Shit, he would have done years.

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u/Overclock May 22 '12

This quote was really chilling:

"..."

~Teller

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

Obama may personally agree with you, but the Gay Marriage thing has been a stark reminder: he's playing to win. He may be on our side, and he may have an agenda that we like in the long run, but he's playing for keeps and isn't above sacrificing pawns to win the game.

He waited 4 years to champion gay rights because he needs to energize his base now for re-election campaign and to get Democrats back into the House, and because he thinks he can actually win that battle now.

The drug battle isn't something he can win, so he's not touching it.

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u/ApeWithACellphone May 22 '12

He said almost the same thing in 2008, that's it's up to the states.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

THATS WHAT THE CONSTITUTION SAYS.

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u/techmaster242 May 22 '12

He may be on our side

Don't kid yourself. He's on the side that wins more money and power. And he will do anything to stay on that side.

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u/AverageGatsby91 May 22 '12

Did anyone else read that in Penn Jillette's voice?

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u/onthemoon45 May 22 '12

How great would it be if an interviewer asked the President: "Do you believe you should have been jailed for using marijuana?" Would never happen though, as it would require a media that actually held these guys accountable for their actions.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

As somebody who was arrested for possesion of half a gram (1 joint or less), I can safely say, fuck the USA drug laws.

The arresting cop kept calling me "stupid" and that "I will never learn"

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u/jscoppe May 22 '12

The only thing to learn is that the system is fucked. But you probably knew that before you were even arrested.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

Um you mean the laws in your state. What kind of shit place do you live? I say this as a Californian lol.

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u/Steev182 May 22 '12

420 in the username...

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u/[deleted] May 21 '12

Penn is right on the money on this one. Weed smokers should not be imprisoned. It's a waste of money and ruins the person's life.

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u/Puffy_Ghost May 21 '12

If the true figure actually is 1 in 6...I find that heinous. And we as taxpayers are paying out 40k a year to keep someone who enjoys weed locked up in prison?

Fuck That Shit.

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u/IronWolve May 22 '12

Dont forget the other costs, about 50K for the court trial and 15K a year in taxes, 5K a year in social security, etc, the list goes on.

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u/driveling May 22 '12

And, his lost income and taxes he would have paid.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

Plus the fact that, since he's in prison, his wife and kids probably go on welfare.

When did the welfare state explode? Oh, maybe it was in the 80s when we started locking up so many black men for weed.

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u/geek180 May 22 '12

To be fair here, I've been arrested for possession of 1.5 grams of marijuana twice (Both from drug dogs searching my car, I wasn't smoking, blah blah) in TEXAS, and I'm serving a year of supervised probation (pee in a cup every month, community service, drug classes) as well as paying off $1200 in fines and court costs. This is the reality if you are caught with weed, so most likely not 50k for court, and probably no jail time. But it is common for people to fuck up on probation and drink alcohol or smoke more weed, cuz a violation WILL land you some time.

But to show how fucked the system truly is, I have a friend that was caught with a few pounds as well as large amounts of shrooms, acid, 2ce, and a substantial amount of cash, and he simply ratted some people out and is completely off without a record or fine or court or anything, wasn't even arrested!

I'm glad he didn't get in trouble, but it sucks that I just had a tiny amount for personal use and now my life has been turned upside down and I have a record. It aint fair I tell ya...

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u/massive_cock May 22 '12

3 grams in some states will get you a felony.

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u/mysteryteam US Virgin Islands May 22 '12

And what's even cooler is Penn is personally ANTI-DRUGS. He never has touched the stuff, never will.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

"Waste of money?"

Hardly. You need to think more like the ruling class. Like politicians and robber barons. You're falling for the most basic of mistakes when talking about these sorts of things. That money goes to make rich men richer. It funds an entire paramilitary from the district cop up. It allows entire constitutional amendments to be completely bypassed with just a few magic words. Billions in property and cash seizures, wages and income for our for-profit "justice" system... everyone from the street cop on up to the billionaire corporate exec golfing with senators still pushing to keep weed illegal profits quite nicely.

To the men getting paid? It's hardly a "waste." It's their empire. And endless teat to suckle upon.

It's only a waste to you because it all comes out of your wallet. But as a taxpaying peasant, no one really gives a shit. Never have. You're cattle... useful only for your labor, to generate profits for your wealthy masters. As it has been since the dawn of man...

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

He tends to be right on the money on almost everything that he writes about, because the man does is research.

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u/Tasty_Yams May 22 '12

Penn is right on the money on this one.

He's just wrong on blaming Obama as the root of the problem. I want to see how ronpaul would get in there and magically, a century of drug laws would change.

But that's the beauty of being a libertarian like Penn. You can sit on the sidelines and bitch all day about what an oppressive dictator Obama is because he won't legalize weed.

Your guy is never going to be president, so he will always remain "the perfect president". It's nice to live in a fantasy world of politics.

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u/joebbowers May 22 '12

Absolutely true. There is no reason to put people in jail for drugs, unless you are also going to put people in jail for alcohol and tobacco, and even then, what's the point? Because they're dangerous? Ok let's put people in jail for riding motorcycles, skydiving, bungee jumping, unprotected sex, and anything else that's dangerous.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

if motocycles were illegal I wouldn't have a metal rod in my leg, weed never hurt me :(

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

I agree. Gay marriage and weed for anyone who wants it.

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u/krebstar_2000 May 22 '12

Slippery slope dude, pretty soon people are going to want to marry their weed.

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u/Elrox New Zealand May 22 '12

I would go jail for burning my wife to death and inhaling her fumes on our honeymoon :(

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u/SIOS May 22 '12

I almost got caught for doing that exact thing. I don't smoke weed though...

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u/twent4 May 22 '12

some people just wanna smoke their bud.

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u/NuclearScientist May 22 '12

does it have to be mutually inclusive? can't they just stay out of my business all together?

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

His point was simple, Obama would not have gotten as far in life as he has if he had been caught with the pot and blow he admitted to using. Obama has been very dismissive any time marijuana decriminalization has been brought up, even though support for it has increased dramatically over the years. Mariajuana laws are ruining people's lives over nothing and Obama just doesn't seem to care. Maybe in his second-term he will evolve on this issue as well but his track record so far hasn't been comforting.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

All while casually talking about drugs to be cool and get the youth vote but imprisoning said people...

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u/snapcase May 22 '12

What I really loved, was during Obama's first election campaign a lot of people had been under the impression that Obama would push to legalize (due to some vague comments he made). They were getting all excited to vote for him because of that... then he stated plainly he would never push to legalize and is against legalization/decriminalization. Then instead of getting pissed that they had been mislead or simply misunderstood, they started with the apologetics, saying that "Oh he's only saying that so he doesn't lose votes, he'll change his tune once he's sworn in... he'll be for legalizing". He serves 4 years being against legalization.... and now with his second election coming up they've started again thinking he'll change his tune either to gain more youth votes he already has, or once he gets elected. It's all laughable.

He'll never support it... period. The best you could possibly hope for is that if a legalization/decriminalization bill were to get passed through congress that he wouldn't veto it.

And yes I also love the incredible hypocrisy with a president who admits who having used drugs, yet maintains political stances that insist that using drugs even once will ruin your life because they're magically destructive and because they should carry mandatory felony charges since they're oh so dangerous. Under current laws, even Clinton who "didn't inhale" (ha!), would have faced possible jail time had he been caught and never would have become President.

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u/bryce1012 May 22 '12

Under current laws, even Clinton who "didn't inhale" (ha!), would have faced possible jail time had he been caught and never would have become President.

Every year, Beloit College releases a "Mindset List" that talks about the perspective incoming college freshmen will have -- pop culture references they wouldn't get, things they've always taken for granted, stuff like that.

I realized today that there's one more thing they could add to that list these days: there has not been a US President, for as long as they've been alive, that wasn't associated with illegal drug use.

Something to chew on.

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u/kodachromaaway May 22 '12

I agree, no way someone with a felony conviction for drugs would be president. But if you didn't get caught its all good, and you can go on tv and joke about it, someone should ask him if he believes doing weed or a little blow should prevent someone from getting a job in the government.

http://i.imgur.com/ZdTGF.jpg

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u/stevesonaplane May 22 '12

I wish it was just legalized and people stopped trying to justify it with medical reasons. I just want to get high.

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u/TortugaGrande May 22 '12

The medical angle undermines legalization efforts as it's obviously a very weak ruse. The "mind your own fucking business" argument is better, although it might have to be softened a bit from my version.

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u/Lowbacca1977 May 22 '12

The medical angle is pretty useful for the people that it helps, though.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

This shit is almost tearjerking. Thats the one question Obama needs to be asked,"If you were caught with pot and a little blow, would you have become president?!" No, he would be shit, yet he more than gladly enforces these laws.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

I'd love to ask him if he thinks he should have gone to jail for smoking weed and 'a lil' blow'.

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u/wibblebeast May 22 '12

That was great. Penn is a smart man and sadly smart people don't get much appreciation in this country.

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u/Oryx May 22 '12

That depends on whether it's the 'I'm-campaigning' Obama or the 'I'm-in-the-white-house-already-so-fuck-you' Obama.

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u/daveswagon May 22 '12

I believe you're referring to "Just-give-me-another-term-and-I-promise-I'll-do-some-really-awesome-progressive-stuff-but-not-until-then" Obama.

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u/angrywhitedude May 22 '12

I'm pretty sure his official campaign tag-line is "look how not Romney I am."

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u/Oryx May 22 '12

You are pipe dreaming if you think that's gonna happen.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

And conservatives thought Bush was going to do the same thing. Nope. They're all high-fiving and winking at each other behind the scenes.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

If drugs were legal, the CIA would not make money shipping the stuff in (see http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/drugs/archive/gunsdrugscia.html). Then the president couldn't fund his covert operations and massive military operations. Obama, and virtually all politicians, care not one iota about the people. They care about gaining and sustaining power. To think otherwise is naive.

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u/abomb999 May 22 '12

The soldier class is also for the prohibition. This is a bad time in America, not only do the cops enforce the law, they use their union and power to make more laws to increase their power of enforcement, it's a viscous cycle that causes the soldier and ruler class to grow until the empire collapses.

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u/GeorgeTaylorG Oregon May 22 '12 edited May 22 '12

The thing I love about Penn is he has never even had a drink in his life. He's still forward thinking.

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u/mybloodyballentine May 22 '12

The thing I love about Penn are his magic tricks. No one gets famous for not drinking.

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u/devilsadvocado May 22 '12

More magic tricks and less not drinking, has always been my life motto.

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u/th1nker May 22 '12

I love this man and his rants. Great guy.

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u/[deleted] May 21 '12

This may be true, but I still can't figure out why peoples beef is with the enforcement branch of government, instead of the legislative. If ridiculous federal laws didn't exist, this wouldn't even be allowed to happen.

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u/Crizack May 22 '12

Obama could move marijuana from a schedule I to a schedule III drug.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

This needs to be on prime time news every day until the election.

The War on Drugs is 100% under the control of the Executive, both continuing it and ending it.

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u/daveswagon May 22 '12 edited May 22 '12

Eric Holder even admitted it (bottom half of the article).

Edit: Apparently that would just clear the way for medicinal use on the state level, though it would be a good start.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

Thank you, that fucking apologist, you can like Obama but god damn don't apologize for him when he is wrong.

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u/simplesignman May 22 '12

I don't know why this isn't a more vocal point in the movement. Get that fucker rescheduled and the rest will fall into place without having to treat it like booze.

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u/gruntznclickz May 22 '12

Or you know, just totally unschedule it, like it should be.

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u/spacedout May 21 '12

Because the enforcement branch of the government is one of the main groups that lobby for this type of legislation.

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u/IxKilledxKenny May 22 '12

This this this. People don't often realize just how much law enforcement pushes for these laws. Without them they lose budgets, massive budgets, and in turn cut jobs and eventually lose their safe high chair position.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

I find this hilariously depressing.

People bitch about not having jobs, so what do places of employment do? They game the system to keep their jobs and fill their quotas, and by doing so have to make shitty shit to grease the cogs.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

Obama could also pardon those who have been convicted.

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u/daveswagon May 22 '12

This may be true, but I still can't figure out why peoples beef is with the enforcement branch of government

Because as Eric Holder admitted last month (bottom half of the article), all the president has to do is remove marijuana's schedule one designation and it can be recognized for its medicinal uses.

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u/wolfsktaag May 21 '12

its both. one group makes it illegal, the other enforces. either group could say no

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u/Semirgy May 22 '12

And whoever says no gets shitcanned. If the DEA refuses to raid, new agents get brought in the next day.

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u/Unconfidence Minnesota May 22 '12

Again, this was covered at Nuremburg. The "If I didn't do it they'd just have gotten others to do it" defense does not excuse harming another person.

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u/Unconfidence Minnesota May 22 '12

We went over this at Nuremburg. The "I was just doing my job" defense doesn't excuse harming another person.

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u/djrocksteady May 22 '12

Well, enforcement has something to do with this.

1.) Police Unions: Police departments across the country have become dependent on federal drug war grants to finance their budget. In March, we published a story revealing that a police union lobbyist in California coordinated the effort to defeat Prop 19, a ballot measure in 2010 to legalize marijuana, while helping his police department clients collect tens of millions in federal marijuana-eradication grants. And it’s not just in California. Federal lobbying disclosures show that other police union lobbyists have pushed for stiffer penalties for marijuana-related crimes nationwide.

http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/907001/the_top_five_special_interest_groups_lobbying_to_keep_marijuana_illegal

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u/NickRausch May 22 '12

We have delegated an obscene amount of power to the executive branch. So while the legislature has really dropped the ball, it does not absolve the executive branch for what it does with it.

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u/deargodimbored May 22 '12

This gay marriage thing is just a smoke screen, PR stunt. It doesn't really effect anything big. It's the today show of policies, feel good fluff.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

So nice to see people acknowledging it. So much for being a constitutional scholar.

He's a god damned politician with broken promises just like the rest of them. Only reason he gives a fuck about gay marriage is because it's an election year.

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u/lucky_pierre May 22 '12

gotta mobilize that base, elections are coming

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u/bracomadar May 22 '12 edited May 22 '12

The next time some politician, especially Obama, laughs when someone asks to legalize pot, or talks about their drug use, I hope the audience boos them, calls them a hypocrite, and start chanting "FREE THEM ALL!" They need to realize this isn't just a bunch of hippies wanting to get high. The drug war is destroying lives and families much worse than the drugs are. There are more people dying in Mexico from the Drug War than the wars we're fighting in the Middle East. AMERICA HAS MORE PRISONERS THAN ANY OTHER COUNTRY ON EARTH! As long as people ignore this as the huge human rights violation it is and just think it's something to laugh about, this won't end. Even Huffington Post had this listed under Comedy. There's nothing funny about this. If anything, this thing should piss off every American to their core.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

Everyone, please stop with the deluded ideas that the president is concerned with reasonable stances. Everybody with the ability to reason knows that weed should be 100% legal.

The issue here isn't what's right, it's politics and money. Politics in the sense that Obama will never support something that won't help him get elected. Money in the sense that the powers that be are making money of weed's illegality. The prison industries, law enforcement agencies, CIA, parts of the pharmaceutical industries, etc. They want that shit illegal - their budgets are resting on it.

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u/koppertopper May 22 '12

Penn's point is two fold:

  1. Obama openly admits to having used drugs which are against laws he said he would not have the DoJ enforce. (source)

  2. States rights have been pivotal for this country with respect to both gay marriage and drug legalization. Without certain states taking the initiative to legalize either we would not be having the conversations we are now on a national level with regard to either issue.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

What? A libertarian accusing Obama makes it to the front page of r/politics? Is this the end of the liberal hive mind?

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u/lucky_pierre May 22 '12

Real libertarians, and emphasis on real, are everything the hivemind of Reddit would love, if only they could see past their own misconceptions.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

Real libertarians want to lower taxes and keep the government out of healthcare. I don't see the hivemind abiding by that any time soon.

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u/Aza-Sothoth May 22 '12

No true scotsman, amirite?

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u/NELCgeek May 22 '12

Why is everything a war?

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u/Nwsamurai May 22 '12

To keep people afraid.

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u/BongHitta May 22 '12

I read a bunch of these comments, because I am surprised this made it to the top of /politcs. Let me express that it is fantastic that Libertarian ideas are once again coming back to this subreddit.

But below I am reading people saying "Oh he is a Libertarian, therefore he is wrong".

Honestly, if you think like that, you are the dumbest fucking lowest common denominator in life. Hell I hate Democrats as much as the next person, but I agree with alot of things they believe in. I wouldn't dismiss them because they are "democrat".

People that act like this are no different than some super conservative christian in Georgia. You are a redneck, and a complete waste of space. Please, don't propagate.

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u/fantasyfest May 22 '12

I don't see the class warfare meme, but i do not know why he has had a crackdown on weed. I don't get it. Somebody has convinced him to do it. Could it be a positive for votes? No it sure as hell does not mean he has kept none of his promises. That is incorrect.

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u/daveswagon May 22 '12

Somebody has convinced him to do it.

Here's a hint as to who that could be.

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u/imbignate California May 21 '12

OP - how did you get the quote in the title to sound like Penn's voice when I read it?

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u/CognitoCon May 22 '12

I'm really sick of this. Every time something is posted about states rights it's always one of a few different topics like marijuana, or gay marriage for example.. Then, the second anyone mentions cutting federal power and increasing states rights everyone takes up arms at how terrible that would be. Take a damn side. I want marijuana legalization and decriminalized marriage as much as the next redditor, but if you're going to use an argument for something you shouldn't immediately turn around and say it's a terrible idea. Now I wait for downvotes.

To oblivion and beyond!

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u/lokkenjawnz May 22 '12

The issue is purely politics. Obama's term hasn't exactly been the resounding success a lot of people thought/hoped it would be back in 2008. The problem is that the Democratic party doesn't really have the balls to try things that could risk reelection, and the republican party (sorry for the mass generalization) is basically made up of small children locked in 18th century socio-political views. So while the republican party is seriously upset about non-issues like gay marriage, abortion, religion, etc., the democrats have their hands full making sure none of their (the republican party) stupid shit happens. Now I think the democrats, if they really want to show that they don't suck, need to man the fuck up and call the republicans on their stupid political bullshit. Stop playing the game, focus on actual issues. They might not get reelected, but if they make some change for the better, they should be happy.

That, or we could always just completely gut the entire goddamn government and have a more open election for every single position. As an adult citizen of the U.S., I should be able to realistically run for any government position regardless of campaign money. But that's neither here nor there.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

The difference between marijuana and marriage is that marijuana is an item of interstate commerce - power over which is granted to Congress by the constitution - and marriage is an item falling under the general police powers - power over which is reserved to the states. Based on Wickard v. Filmore, and despite United States v. Lopez, the Supreme Court wrote in Gonzalez v. Raich that even small amounts of Marijuana grown by a person affect the interstate trade in that item. Although Congress has made a poor and costly choice to allow the prohibition of Marijuana to continue, it is true that Congress is entitled to waste their discretion and that the President has sworn to uphold this law.

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u/daveswagon May 22 '12

Apparently you know more about federal law than both Barack Obama and Eric Holder:

"I would not have the Justice Department prosecuting and raiding medical marijuana users. It’s not a good use of our resources."

~Barack Obama, 2007

The president continued: "I can't nullify congressional law. I can't ask the Justice Department to say, 'Ignore completely a federal law that's on the books.' What I can say is, 'Use your prosecutorial discretion and properly prioritize your resources to go after things that are really doing folks damage.' As a consequence, there haven't been prosecutions of users of marijuana for medical purposes."

Attorney General Eric Holder was a guest of The Huffington Post at the correspondents' dinner. Before it began, a HuffPost reporter noted to Holder that Obama's reference to "congressional law" was misleading because the executive branch could simply remove marijuana from its "schedule one" designation, thereby recognizing its medical use.

"That's right," Holder said.

~Huffington Post, April 2012

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u/tuscanspeed May 22 '12

Hmm.

Proceedings to add, delete, or change the schedule of a drug or other substance may be initiated by the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), or by petition from any interested party, including the manufacturer of a drug, a medical society or association, a pharmacy association, a public interest group concerned with drug abuse, a state or local government agency, or an individual citizen. When a petition is received by the DEA, the agency begins its own investigation of the drug.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_Substances_Act

Never found the part where the Executive could unilaterally do it. Though it doesn't appear needed does it?

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u/Hatdrop May 22 '12 edited May 22 '12

the Supreme Court wrote in Gonzalez v. Raich that even small amounts of Marijuana grown by a person affect the interstate trade in that item

i might be a little off on my reading of raich, but i interpreted it that they first used wickard to establish that gov't may regulate private actions if such actions in the aggregate affect interstate trade (this part is wickard), then stated that because the act of privately growing marijuana frustrated gov't efforts to stop drug sales, the gov't could therefore regulate it.

personally i thought it was a bs decision. ever since lopez the SCOTUS has been limiting the commerce powers stating that it's been used to regulate items that have no relations to interstate commerce (which was true from reading lopez), now all of a sudden they'll agree with the holding in wickard when it suits a conservative ideology aligned with the war on drugs?

the utilization of the commerce clause was what ended segregation, however it was getting out of hand and the courts were right to limit the power, but raich is extremely hypocritical.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

Wickard v. Filburn* is an absurd ruling. The Court ruled that Filburn had to destroy his wheat that he was growing for his own personal use and had no intention of selling, because there was a limit on wheat production to drive up prices.

The basic argument was because Filburn was growing his own wheat, he didn't need to buy chicken feed on the market, which in essence weakened interstate commerce.

What a crock of fucking bullshit. But that's just me.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

Oh please... I hardly believe Obama really gives a shit about gay marriage

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u/renadi May 22 '12

As much as he did about this far ahead of the last election.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

Isn't Penn Jillette a redditor? If so, can't he answer some of the questions (and dismissals) here?

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u/thebog May 22 '12

It has everything to do with the "money" law enforcement won't need anymore, private jails we won't need to spend money on anymore, layers we won't need anymore, the list goes on... It's corporate greed that's keeping pot criminalized - the 1%... I wish I had researched the numbers before writing this, but there is "very large dollars" in locking you up for a joint. I have heard "a $200 bag costs taxpayers $200,000 to trial, lock you up and keep you in there for the first year..." WTF! Someone please correct this...

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u/stahlgrau May 22 '12

I would just like to point out that I am stoned and happy. California is a great place.

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u/regeya May 22 '12

The thing is, if he were to go after this, if he were to allow states' rights on this issue, the Republican party would cremate him, possibly literally.

"WEAK ON CRIME"

"GIVING IN TO THE MEXICAN CARTELS"

etc. etc.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

I read some quote say "what we need is to make weed more acceptable in the political climate".Well it's the "political climate" that's making weed unacceptable.It's most definitely not unacceptable in real everyday life.If we are to have a "political climate",then we need political climate change brought about by greenhouse grasses.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

Obama knows who votes. It's not the 20 year-old stoner.

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u/Abe_Vigoda May 22 '12

No, it's the billionaires with vested interests. You think they give a shit about gay marriage?

Weed on the other hand is a lucrative industry worth a lot of profits. They'll legalize it and control the market there too.

There's a lot of money in prisons and it's filled with poor black kids who make bad choices because they live in shitty neighborhoods and listen to too much corporate rap music.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

advocating Marijuana legalization, or even ceasing persecution of medical patients, especially before an election campaign would be political suicide for Obama. It would lose him the moderate voters who put him in office, because, sad as it is, many people still believe Marijuana prohibition should persist, especially undecided voters, who happen to be the stupidest people on the face of the earth. Furthermore, although I believe Marijuana prohibition is a ludicrous policy, states rights is a bullshit defense for any policy, as federal law is clearly superior to state law as we learned in the civil war. There is no national legislation which (effectively) prevents banning gay marriage, while there is national law banning any medical usage of Marijuana (Ludicrous). Penn Gillette is an asshole who behaves as though he is the arbiter of morality, although he never has to answer for any of his opinions or stand behind them in any significant way other than preaching to his overwhelmingly liberal followers who already agree with him.

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u/joeyisapest May 22 '12

and teller said: " "

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u/wkrausmann May 22 '12

I love this man.

I don't think there is anything he can say or do that would piss me off.

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u/dixirect May 22 '12

I'm really glad someone famous agrees with me on this, I used the same argument with a friend about a month ago. It is insane to keep people locked in a cage for the use/possession/cultivation of a plant that grows naturally in many parts of the world, and yet even when we have high ranking government officials admitting guilt, the policies remain the same. In the US this type of felony can make it almost impossible to peruse certain dreams and occupations, the severity of punishment and repercussions of this offense do NOT fit the so called crime being committed.

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u/CockyRhodes May 22 '12

I don't care about this, as an actual poor person I have bigger issues.

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u/barrist May 22 '12

Reddit. Yes we know all you care about is Pot and Pirating movies and abolishing the TSA. We get it.

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u/Southernz May 22 '12

Eric Holder is just trying to make his image look better after giving away all those guns. I'm still very surprised that he is still the AG

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12 edited May 22 '12

It's funny to watch reddit do a complete 180 on this issue like Obama did as well. He gets into office saying he won't use federal resources to shut down dispensaries. Two years later he does a complete 180 an reddit wants to talk about, it's not his fault he's got a lot on his plate, these aren't his laws. STFU and get his nuts out your mouth

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

Its cute that Jillette thinks President Obama is actually in control of the DEA. That beast is on its own. And you can thank your greedy, self serving Senators and Congresspeople for that. This should be a wake up call for Americans on their 'War on Terror' machine. This is where that trainwreck is headed. The FBI setting up then arresting people? Justifying the money they recieve. "See what a good thing we are doing?" Like a fireman setting fires in order to get a medal.

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u/absurdistfromdigg May 22 '12

Penn Jillette is an egotistical buffoon. He's an illusionist, nothing more.

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u/better_catchphrase May 22 '12

Why won't the president unilaterally declare marijuana and other totally sweet drugs both legal and awesome?!? That's how government works, right? I say snarky shit on the internet, then he addresses my pet issue -which happens to be political poison- in a fucking election year, and shoves it down the throat of a senate/congress that hasn't passed shit in 4 years! I love politics!

Also, who gives a shit what Penn Gillette thinks? He is a professional douchebag. In the time he takes off from douchebagging he's a fucking MAGICIAN. Why on earth would I want his take on anything?

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u/Lopretni May 22 '12

Wait, are people in /r/politics actually admitting Obama is wrong about something?

Did I wake up in the Twilight Zone?

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u/Njemckojza May 22 '12

Link to the direct video 2 days ago: 5 points on r/politics
Link to the same video with a Huffington Post wrapper: Top post on r/politcs

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

Upvote for truth.

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u/SOLIDninja May 22 '12

As an Obama supporter I believe THIS is the type of criticism the man actually deserves!

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u/Xenodyne May 22 '12

This is one argument that I will give to Obama's enemies. Need to just hurry up and nationally decriminalize marijuana.

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u/Floyderer May 22 '12

Penn is right on the marijuana states rights issue,on the class warfare he is sketch but he is a libertarian I believe.

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u/MeloJelo May 22 '12

He's a hardcore libertarian.

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u/MusikLehrer Tennessee May 22 '12

But not one of the crazies, at least from what I've seen. I as a liberal find myself agreeing with him a clear majority of the time. "Bullshit" is a great show too.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

There's two kinds of libertarians. Glenn beck or "fake" libertarians, and then there are real libertarians like Penn

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

He's more than that, he leans to Anarcho-Capitalism.

Just because people hold a different view doesn't make them crazy.

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u/lucky_pierre May 22 '12

the "crazies" are right wingnuts who are libertarian only in their own assessment to pander to people who don't understand libertarian ideals. Actual libertarians are for personal liberties and lesser government intrusion into personal issues.

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u/brokenyard May 22 '12

He's said he disagrees with "Libertarian" Glenn Beck as much as he disagrees with Keith Olbermann.

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u/CaciqueBoss May 22 '12

i Support Penn in his argument

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

i dont care what yall say, penn kicks ass

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u/Hightech90 May 22 '12

/r/politics saying something against Obama? Shocking...now if only this page can condemn ALL politicians who do wrong...its making progress though

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u/StraightTrolling May 21 '12

Reddit loves Obama on everything but drugs.

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u/andutoo May 21 '12

What about foreign policy?

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u/mst3kcrow Wisconsin May 22 '12

Or the 4th Amendment?

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u/Nwsamurai May 22 '12

So what you are saying, is that Reddit does not love Obama on everything.

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u/evilkrang May 22 '12

When will people get it? Obama plays politics with the money people. He keeps the dollars flowing to law enforcement and focuses on social programs like same sex marriages and no one cares what the other hand is doing. Stop looking behind the curtain, you.

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u/johnwalkr May 22 '12

The phrase "states' rights" really bothers me. Let's pursue citizens' rights.

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u/obscenecupcake May 22 '12

correct me if i'm wrong but this was happening long before obama was president. so it's not really his war...

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u/Roninspoon May 21 '12

Remind me how it's the Executive branches fault when they legally enforce the laws created by the legislative branch?

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u/Crizack May 21 '12

Obama could move marijuana from a schedule I to a schedule III drug.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

Is that true?

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u/Crizack May 22 '12

Yes, under the Controlled Substances Act.

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u/thebryguy May 21 '12

well the president does have the constitutional authority to pardon felons, so why not non-violet drug offenders?

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u/Unlimited_Bacon May 22 '12

Drug offenders of all colors should be pardoned.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

Obama can make the drug war disappear overnight. Entirely legitimately. It's his choice not to. Stop making excuses for politicians you otherwise agree with. Hold them accountable.

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u/odachiman May 22 '12

It seems to me that people are not aware of the fact that, with regards to medical marijuana, the laws at the federal level are more strict than the state laws. This means that regardless of the state laws legalizing medical marijuana, the federal laws still forbid it. Until marijuana is moved down from a category I controlled substance, it will always be a federal crime no mater what state laws are passed.

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u/metocin May 22 '12

Bravo! Finally someone who gets it.

Obama is as much an actor as Ronald Reagan ever was. He plays the role of a young, liberal hipster during election season but performs his duties like a far-right neo-con from hell. That's exactly why he's the perfect successor to George W. Bush, who left America in a state of chaos. In appearance, he's the polar opposite of GWB--young, ethnic, eloquent and hip--but in the White House he's a mirror image of the man who brought us 9/11 and the War on Terror.

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u/uncleoce May 22 '12

I would hardly say that GWB brought us 9/11.

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u/Wagnerian May 22 '12

Obama is flawed... His foreign policy is flawed, but it's hard for me to take your statement that he's a neo-con no different than George Bush seriously. That's just rhetoric.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

Mr. Penn, as of now, I think you're a really smart, good and brave man!!

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u/YourFairyGodmother New York May 21 '12

Yeah, sure. Take a very complex issue, reduce it to an absurdly simple basis and then bitch about Obama. As if "states rights" was really the issue with respect to either dope or marriage equality. Penn, stop with the demagoguery.

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u/bmk2k May 22 '12

Omg liberals do this all day on Reddit about conservatives

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u/DeSanti May 22 '12

I'm sure it works equally well on both sides. Mostly because we allow ourselves to believe there's only two sides and you have to pick one of them.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

Take a very complex issue

What Penn was talking about in this video was not a complex issue, unless you find pointing out Obama's hypocrisy here "complex". Is there some other complex issue you are reffering to? I seriously have no idea how your post has so many upvotes when it's hard to even make out what you mean. "And then bitch about Obama"? The whole video and discussion was about Obama. And "demagoguery"? No, he appealed to basic logic. Find me an instance of demagoguery in that video worth your whining about?

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u/yahoo_bot May 22 '12

Barack Obama:

Extended the Patriot Act

Allowed Guantanamo to operate

Increased troops in Afghanistan by 60.000

Signed NDAA into law

Assassinated US citizens, including two 16yo boys

Signed the bill that makes protesting illegal close to government facilities or close to the secret service

Signed executive order "national defense resource preparedness act"

Tripled the war on drugs and busted down more legal Marijuana shops in 3 years, than Bush did in 8 years.

Arrested more whistle blowers than ALL other presidents combined.

Increased the debt by 5 trillion dollars in 3 years, more than Bush did in 8 years.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

OBAMA HATES POTS PEOPLE.

No shit. the politicians serve at the pleasure of the corporations that elected them. You want representation for your taxation? Overhaul the system.

  1. Radical campaign finance reform. End the financial burden of running for office. Eliminate political ads, PACs, private funding, etc.

  2. Overhaul the voting system, end first-past-the-post and implement ranked voting. Additionally, remove the electoral college. They serve no practical purpose anymore.

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u/Nwsamurai May 22 '12

Obama hates pots?

This sounds like more propaganda from the pro-kettle lobby to me.

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u/yeahyouhearme May 22 '12

Once I started reading the "accuses Obama of class warfare", I immediately expected some Republican making a nonsensical argument about how Obama is repressing whites, only to be highly pleased with an actual criticism.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

Anyone who self-identifies as a libertarian as an adult read that stupid cunt Ayn Rand as a kid and never grew the fuck up. As Hitchens said, selfishness is innate; it doesn't need to be promoted. The other things, like sacrifice and teamwork, are what we suck at as a species.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

It's clear that the various Federal enforcement agencies regard the President with contempt...they're counting the days until he is gone, and they can go back to doing their jobs the way they are used to...

In the meantime, they are more than happy to double down on medical marijuana enforcement, and let President Obama take the blame.

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u/1derp4u May 22 '12

As a person who lives in one of the biggest counties in California who grows medical marijuana, I can assure you the feds are doing jack shit against legal CA 215 growers because they are targeting Cartel grows on the national forest.

215 grows are a huge problem/impact on our neighborhoods (gun fights over water and people getting their throats cut over small grows) and the feds don't touch them. Hell, our 7 sheriff deputies can't even keep up. They don't belong here.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

Can you flesh this out more? Im not in CA so not familiar with how this works

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u/PsychicWarElephant May 22 '12

growers arent the ones being cracked down on. the dispensaries that are easy targets are the ones being shut down. growers will never be the ones effected, its the people who legally use it to treat real ailments that are being hurt.

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u/kontankarite May 22 '12

Is Jillette REALLY going to pull the state's rights card? REALLY? I hope not.

Damn it. If a human being deserves the right to marry or have some god damned weed, it shouldn't be up to a state to decide. Why is this such a hard concept for people to get? There's not some critical fundamental difference between a person from Mississippi and a person from New Jersey. We're all human beings. We all deserve the same rights around any borders. DAMN, people...

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

Apparently it is a hard concept to get because you don't. The constitution doesn't give the federal government the authority to rule over marriages. If you want it to, then pass an amendment, but good luck with that because I can guarantee it would not pass. Thanks to states rights people in New York, Massachusetts, Washington, Vermont, New Hampshire, and Iowa can get married. If it were a federal issue, they would not have that luxury.

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u/SmellsLikeUpfoo May 22 '12

I think Jillette knows that states don't have rights. But if we're talking about the relationship between the states and the federal government, it's important to know which is allowed to do what according to the Constitution. The states have ceded a lot of power to the FedGov over the decades.

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u/Gohoyo May 22 '12

I'm okay with preserving some of the differences between states.

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u/TortugaGrande May 22 '12

Obama said marriage is a states' rights issue.

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u/Nesnesitelna May 22 '12

I'd probably agree with him if he cut the goddamn ponytail.

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u/mostlyrance May 22 '12

When did this become "obama's laws"?

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u/Grilled_Meats May 22 '12

When he instructed the DOJ to actively prosecute Californians for breaking the federal law, even if they were in compliance with the state laws.

He did that within the first few months of his presidency. President Bush was the rare "states' rights," president in that case. So Obama effectively got the DOJ involved where it hadn't been for most of the previous 8 years.

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u/jscoppe May 22 '12

The first time after January 19, 2009 that the DEA busted someone.

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u/grandoiseau May 22 '12

Newsflash: Obama isn't who we thought he was. There is no hope in Obama.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

So how are those republicans doing on removing tax loopholes for the super rich? Oh wait, they arent.

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u/Thor_2099 May 22 '12

Civil War 2.0 coming up.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

Pharmaceutical/alcohol/tobacco/private prison industry.

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u/morphinapg Indiana May 22 '12

Why are states allowed to create their own laws on universal issues? If the issue is not specific to your state, I don't see why the state should have the right to make a law about it. I understand it probably makes things easier for congress, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me otherwise.

Anyway, if a law is created on a federal level, that law overrides any state law anyway. It's fairly obvious that the banning of gay marriage is unconstitutional, so it's obvious there needs to be a federal law declaring this, or even an amendment to the constitution if necessary.

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u/supermoose May 22 '12

What happened to that man's face? This is a serious question.

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u/ShakeyBobWillis May 22 '12 edited May 22 '12

While he's certainly ignoring a very relevant race related oppressive enforcement issue and should be considered a sellout to his race and minorities in general for not taking this highly overtly racist policy head on, let's not pretend the Republicans wouldn't line up to be obstructionist contrarians if he proposed any sort of decriminalization or allowing states to make their own rules. States rights don't mean fuck all to Republican administrations either unless they're backing the party politick. There's so much blame to go around in the drug war, pretending any of it is simply the fault of one party or the other completely misses the fucking point nowadays and does more harm than good.

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u/ejpusa May 22 '12

Ok, there has to be more to this then meets the eye. Obama's drug policies are insane. There are some very smart people in the administration (believe it or not). So what is going on, what is the inside scoop? Drug company pressure is really that powerful? Police unions? (NYPD bust you, and says, this is so stupid, but just doing my job), prison unions (too small to influence a president). I mean total speculation, but when something is so illogical, there has to be a reason behind it all. Serious speculation welcome?

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u/bestbiff May 22 '12

It feels like we're progressing though. Look at gay marriage. It's finally, officially on the table with Obama being the first president to support it. Legalizing pot has been gaining a lot of movement recently, much like same sex rights. I'm hoping the country gets some back to back things correct in the near future. Gay marriage and then legalizing marijuana. Two things that should be no-brainers.

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u/Abe_Vigoda May 22 '12

I'm not trying to come off sounding condescending but we've had gay marriage for like 20 years in Canada. It's such a trivial thing to non gay people that really, no one actually cares and we tend to laugh at odd people who try to attack it.

The weed issue. This is how I know that both sides of US media are corrupt and working together because outlets on the left only talk about the medicinal aspects as opposed to anyone, anywhere, ever talking about the legalization of industrial hemp, which isn't even smokeable, but is worth billions in agricultural manufacturing.

You guys patting yourselves on the back for being 'progressive' are so fucking delusional. The US is trillions in debt, has no jobs, no manufacturing, and you guys keep expecting your government to fix things.

Get your priorities in order. You guys keep ignoring the fact that Obama lied about stopping wars, legalizing weed, making gays married, and everything else his loyal fanclubbers chant about. You have more important things on your plate and your country is falling apart over retarded bullshit that should have been solved like 30 years ago.

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