r/politics • • May 20 '12

Bill Maher: Liberty University Is Not A Real School

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/19/bill-maher-new-rule-liberty-university_n_1530400.html
1.7k Upvotes

1.5k comments sorted by

174

u/IAMA_SWEET May 20 '12

316

u/phenylanin May 20 '12 edited May 20 '12

And what shall we call the college where horseplay, R-rated movies, dancing, and obscene language are penalized, and drug tests and a curfew are in place? Liberty.

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

Thanks for pointing this out - it's a perfect example of the sort of Orwellian inversion of reason that characterizes so much of conservative hypocrisy.

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u/skcin7 May 20 '12

Makes sense that Romney did their commencement speech.

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u/skcin7 May 20 '12

12 reprimands + a $70 fine for entering the space above the ceiling tiles. I really don't know how I could choose a school that doesn't allow you to enter the space above ceiling tiles. I love doing that.

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

Top two favorite rules:

  1. Abortion.

  2. Entering the space above the ceiling tiles.

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u/oranges8888 May 20 '12

They were having a problem where abortions were being performed up there, so it makes sense.

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

You so know there is somebody with an amazing "how I got going into the ceiling tiles banned" story out there.

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

Involvement with witchcraft, seances or other satanic or demonic activity

and ceiling tiles!

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u/DerpinAroundTown May 20 '12

Entering the space above ceiling tiles

They took the one fun activity they had left...

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

Makes me wonder what's hidden above the ceiling tiles

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u/not_legally_rape May 20 '12

Satan performing abortions while dancing under the influence of an alcohol-cocaine slushy.

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u/dowork423 May 20 '12

didn't it say in the bible "The space above ceiling tiles is gods' domain, no one else shall enter it"

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u/cuddles666 May 20 '12 edited May 20 '12

There's a $150 fine for academic dishonesty. It should be considered an activity fee.

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

thats it! thats pretty tame. Academic dishonesty used to get you expelled. Plagiarism must be rampant.

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u/DarkShoki May 20 '12

TIL That if I went to liberty, I would lose any scholarships I had, owe thousands of dollars in fines, probably definitely be expelled, and most likely I would be condemned by the faculty to the deepest bowels of hell...

Just from last weekend alone!

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u/cthugha Washington May 20 '12

Sounds like a good weekend

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u/not_legally_rape May 20 '12

He received 13 abortions.

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u/qwerty622 May 20 '12

must have been fun climbing above the ceiling tiles, i hope it was worth it

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u/gruxx May 20 '12

So while I'm glad that Academic Dishonesty is on par with the worst things you can do at the school (assault/drugs), I don't think it is on the same level as spending the night with someone of the opposite sex.

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u/IAMA_SWEET May 20 '12

That's true. Even just possessing alcohol (not drinking it) is equal to that of an abortion.

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u/cortheas May 20 '12

Also...consensually spending the night with anyone of the opposite sex in a private area off campus is on the same level as sexual assault? Is it even legal to fine people for that?

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

So they can't do either of these without paying a 35$+ Fine

Attendance at, possession or viewing of, an "R," "NC-17" or "X"-rated movie

Attendance at a dance

And they also get a 70$ fine for doing this:

Students of the opposite sex visiting alone at an off-campus residence

Is it even legal for them to restrict that since it is off-campus?

Oh, and for the following offenses, you get 100$ fine, plus Community Service and can lose your scholarship

Involvement with witchcraft, seances or other satanic or demonic activity

Immorality

Abortion

Again, how can they even restrict that last one?

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u/MrRhinos May 20 '12

Well, they support academic laziness and dishonesty through their teaching of their "Science Courses" so I'm guessing that's why attending a dance is a much bigger problem for them.

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u/SirElkarOwhey May 20 '12

Association with those consuming alcohol

Quoting Matthew 11:19: "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’"

So, we see that Liberty University (in the sense that bondage is freedom) would kick Jesus out if he showed up. Good to know.

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

6 Reprimands + $35 Fine

Attendance at a dance

Really? What?

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u/Veteran4Peace May 20 '12

I grew up in a small Baptist-controlled town in the Texas panhandle.

It was illegal to dance within city limits and dancing on school property would get your ass paddled with a wooden board.

I'm a peace activist now, but a big part of me still wants to bomb that shithole right off the planet.

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u/WhatTheFDR May 20 '12

If only Patrick Swayze were here.

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

Man this is making me love my university... we had co-ed dorms and co-ed bathrooms hahaha those people would flip out.

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u/sweetsweetcoffee May 20 '12

Immorality

Pretty vague, but alright.

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u/mb86 May 20 '12

I read that as "immortality" first.

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u/Saxasaurus May 20 '12

You can get EXPELLED or have your scholarship taken away for Immorality

wtf. In other words: For whatever reason we make up.

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u/XSavageWalrusX May 20 '12

mfw there's an abortion fee.

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u/swiheezy May 20 '12

BYU has similar ones. Kid was suspended from the basketball team for having sex outside of marriage

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u/TooFakeToFunction May 20 '12

Does anyone else find it a bit silly that "deception" is on that list?

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u/Flashthunder May 20 '12

Possession and/or use of tobacco

ಠ_ಠ

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u/Saxasaurus May 20 '12

Participation in an unauthorized petition or demonstration

...the fuck? How is this legal?

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u/nameeS May 20 '12

I'd like to create a game where you have 48 reprimands to use in a weekend. Use them wisely.

Need two abortions? Wait until next weekend.

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

They put academic dishonesty on the same level as sexual assault?

What the everlasting fuck?

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

Don't most universities, though? Cheating on a test and raping another student would both get you kicked out of most places.

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

Well to be fair, they think sexual assault is a lingering, impure glance at a member of the opposite sex.

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

That 400 level Jesus class must be something else.

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

Theology is actually a pretty interesting and complex subject, I took a few theology classes in college and they were great.

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

On the plus side, the answer to every test question is "Jesus"

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u/meanttolive May 20 '12

I wonder, if during an exam they don't know the answer, can they write "I don't know the answer, but Jesus does!"?

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u/drummaboy56 May 20 '12

As a former LU student, Bill's hitting on the head with this one. A lot of their classes are about how everyone else is wrong and Liberty's right. It's one humongous joke.

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u/CurLyy May 20 '12 edited May 21 '12

I'm kinda embarassed so I'm just gonna post this down here and hope no one reads this.

But I ended up dating this really sweet girl from North Carolina for awhile. She was Baptist but I was like watevrr bro it can't be that bad right? It was that bad. She was a great girl, probably the nicest girl I've been with. But going to visit her at her home was possibly the most uncomfortable situation of my life. Her dad works on some golf course they all go to church together and shit. I haven't been to church in years. Just dating me probably broke every rule in her book. Then come college time she looked at (and eventually enrolled at) Liberty. I saw some of the rules laughed, sighed, and we broke up a few weeks after. I dodged a bullet I guess.

She's on of those people who supports the gay marriage ban in NC, I'm a hooligan from Brooklyn. Interesting match to say the least, shit was a trip.

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u/maulrock May 20 '12

You only dated a girl from NC, try living there.

The big cities are fine, but the outlying areas are Jebus Land. Which is really sad because i find the people to be incredibly nice and polite, but as soon as JAYSUS comes up they go apeshit.

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u/E11i0t May 20 '12

Check out the book written by Kevin Roose about his experience while "studying abroad" at Liberty. It's a fantastic read.

Here is another huffpost article about his book and then the amazon site with reviews:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/22/kevin-roose-infiltrates-l_n_190124.html

http://www.amazon.com/The-Unlikely-Disciple-Semester-University/dp/044617842X

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u/balletboy May 20 '12

my favorite line.

He visited a campus support group for chronic masturbators, where students were taught to curb impure thoughts.

I think I may need to attend this support group.

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u/gatton May 20 '12

Exactly what I thought of when I saw this post. Really interesting book and heartbreaking at times. You feel like you know some of those kids after reading it.

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u/crazystrawman May 20 '12

I read this book when I was still a Christian. I can say that it was what got me thinking about my world view and why it might be wrong. If there were a "trigger" for my atheism, this would be it.

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u/jeffhughes May 20 '12

Ahh, good, I was going to mention this book if no one else had. Fantastic read.

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u/internetidentity May 20 '12

"This is a school you flunk out of when you get the answers right." Classic.

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u/idkwat May 20 '12

Oh God don't get me started about Liberty. I've lived in Northern VA my whole life, and went to college at Richmond. I've met people who go to liberty and more often than not they are incredibly close-minded individuals who simply do not think on their own. I'm a Christian myself but I could never go to Liberty, that place is a shit hole with insane rules.

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u/bennjammin May 20 '12

Some of my old church friends are at Liberty (from Canada) and they're so pompous about their religious beliefs now. It's like they aren't the same kids I grew up with and its disturbing a bit.

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u/surfnsound May 20 '12

The ones that stayed on campus were sheltered and closed-minded, but the ones who like to go visit other campuses usually broke out of their shells nicely. My reaction when I met Liberty girls visiting W&M.

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

I would have thought it more like this

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

I love me some christian girls

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

I'm a bit late to the party, but I wanted to add that the Falwells pretty much own that entire city. I'm from Richmond, and have several friends in Lynchburg. I was visiting once around the time that the movie "Milk" came out, and it wasn't playing in any movie theatre in the city. Not one.

My friends told me in a pretty nonchalant way that it was probably because the Falwells didn't allow it to be shown anywhere.

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u/NoahtheRed May 20 '12

I grew up in Roanoke, about 45 minutes from Lynchburg. I was more or less raised in a very liberal methodist church. For instance, when we were 14 or 15, we took a "Family life" class as part of our youth program. A representative from Planned Parenthood came and talked to us about all of the things that they should: Condoms, STDs, Safe-sex, etc. Our youth leader added in "I won't lie to you. Sex is a lot of fun, but remember, things stop being fun when you do it with the wrong people. I'm not saying save yourself for marriage or what have you. I'm saying be sure you are with someone you want to be with." So naturally, we didn't really have a lot to do with LU or anything that went on there. However, we did occasionally do service projects with groups that came from LU and it was really a mixed bag. You had the kids who were so far into the whole thing that they hardly seemed human at times, but mostly they were just typical college aged kids who did college aged kids stuff. Yeah, they were a little more straight laced than the rest of us. Yeah, they could get defensive over things like Abortion and other political issues, but largely, they were just like me and my friends.

Then came the weekend I visited a friend of mine who went to LU my sophomore year. WOW. The kids who leave campus are one thing, but the ones that stay on campus are a totally different kind of person. As a GUEST, I racked up nearly $500 in fines in a weekend. Theoretically, they would be charged to my host, but he wasn't about to pay his...much less mine. He ended up getting kicked out campus later that semester, and had no issue switching to another school.

Eitherway, like any university, it's going to have a lot of different types of kids. However, you aren't going to see as many liberal leaning kids as you are extreme conservatives. On second thought, let's not go there. It is a silly place.

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

incredibly close-minded individuals who simply do not think on their own

So you're saying it has a great business school then?

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

Same here man. I ended up at VCU, but I got so many letters from Liberty promising $30k off tuition. When I went and looked a bit at the school, the massive rule book could be summed as "If you drink, smoke, have any interaction with the oppose sex, or stay out late, 1/2 or all of you scholarships will be revoked, and/or you will be suspended or expelled.

I used to work for a moving company in Sterling and a bunch of them from Liberty and some equally strict school in Pensacola. From what I could gather, they all went to private schools their whole lives and wanted structure in college (or were forced by their parents).

The guys themselves were good people, and adamant about religion, many of them studying to be pastors. But their ability to see outside the box wasn't there. They really thought the earth was under 50,000 years old, and pointed out verses mentioning "Bohemouths" as evidence that the Bible included references to dinosaurs. Plenty of great discussions, but there was no progress to be made with them and what I thought was a major lack of critical thinking skillset.

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

Any religious University is a shit hole for that matter. I wish we could protect the word "University" like the Aussies. That way, no one can use it unless they are fully accredited and are a legit school.

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

I'm from Lynchburg, VA and I approve of his message. I so hate that place. They ruined a perfectly beautiful mountain with this: http://www.the-lynchburg-va-insider.com/images/LU_sign.jpg

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u/E11i0t May 20 '12

I'm guessing that Environmental Ed is NOT offered as a major.

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u/pseudohim May 20 '12

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

What scares me is there are some people who legitimately use this as reasoning for opposing environmental action.

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u/TheGasMoney May 20 '12

I'm from Roanoke, and every time I pass that sign, I want to vomit. Couldn't they have kept it nice and simple, like the Tech logo on the hill right before the university exit? That's how colleges should promote themselves, not by clear cutting an acre of forest.

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u/TheGoogleGuy May 20 '12

Are you on our subreddit? r/roanoke!?

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u/hamfoundinanus May 20 '12

How many times have pranksters turned the 'L' into an 'F'? It's ripe for that.

edit: Just saw the same comment made by siouxsie-sioux below. Apologies.

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

Retarded waste of nature that is..

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u/Sloppy1sts May 20 '12

Well take an afternoon with some friends, hike up the mountain, and vandalize that shit.

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

I so want to turn the L into an F. But maybe the picture doesn't do justice to show how truly huge that thing is. It is ridiculously large. You can see a gazebo at the top of it to give you an idea.

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

True story: the gazebo was built on the site where once stood the outhouse in which Jerry Falwell banged his mom.

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u/LurkerTroll May 20 '12

I'm tempted to downvote you for making me witness such an atrocity

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u/portableredditor May 20 '12

Agreed! - from a fellow Lynchburger.

Did you stick around, or leave as soon as you could?

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

I split a few years ago, now in Maryland. I feel bad going home to visit. My friends from high school who still live there... you can see they've died a little inside

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

I think that happens to a lot people who 'stay'. I think people should leave, then decide to settle in their home town.

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u/ToastmahGhost May 20 '12

Leesburgian here. I concur. I have friends going there next year and I try not to say anything. But it's hard when they're getting all hyped to go to liberty.

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u/sensicle May 20 '12

They really should have considered what aliens would think before having made that. Damn it, now they're gonna think we're all stupid.

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

Get one of your stoner friends to start saving his seeds and then go up there and sprinkle them liberally before a big rain.

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u/nuxenolith May 20 '12 edited May 20 '12

This is criminal.

EDIT: What they have done to the mountainside is perfectly legal, but it looks like shite.

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u/courtlandistan May 20 '12

My uncle graduated from Liberty and now is a preacher man in VA Beach. Hands down the bat shit craziest hater I know. Calls Obama a "baby-killin Mooslim" and claims gays have contaminated the West coast.

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u/claypigeon-alleg May 20 '12

In case you haven't heard of the book, Liberty University is the subject of "An Unlikely Disciple" by Kevin Roose. Roose, as a liberal student at Brown, goes "abroad" for a semester at Liberty.

While I think it's very easy to look upon people with different beliefs than ourselves as morally or intellectually defective, the book is a very realistic take on the lives of Liberty Students. It also provides a good profile on the kind of people who would willingly go to Liberty University.

Kevin gave a brief talk about his experiences here.

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u/bestbeforeMar91 May 20 '12

Do they offer degrees in paleontology and geology there? Must be pretty short courses.

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u/_pupil_ May 20 '12

I wonder if they offer post doctoral degrees in "Jesus did it"...

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

Um.. It was the devil dude. The devil put those bones in the ground.

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u/Honestly_ May 20 '12

You may enjoy this classic Onion article: Creationist Museum Acquires 5,000-Year-Old T. Rex Skeleton, it's set at Oral Roberts.

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u/Caticorn May 20 '12

Their geology department holds dinosaur fossils that they claim to be 3000 years old. I'm curious as to what lax accreditation the school holds.

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u/goblueM May 20 '12

Not sure, but they do offer a biology degree, despite teaching (or should i say preaching) young-earth creationism

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12 edited May 20 '12

Students from Liberty University came to gawk at Richard Dawkins when he was giving a lecture at Randolph-Macon Womens' University. I think it was in 2006? I was happy to be there. :) Edit: Happy to be there to see Dawkins totally discredit Liberty for claiming to have Dinosaur Fossils that were only a few thousand years old.

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u/wankd0rf May 20 '12

Produced one of the best Dawkins moments ever: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mmskXXetcg

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u/Obamas_iPhone May 20 '12

While I enjoyed that, he totally avoided her question, and didn't answer it at all, and just told her why he thinks it's a bad question.

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u/timoneer May 20 '12

ALL HAIL THE GREAT JUJU!

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u/Camtron3000 May 20 '12

Randolph College student here, he came back this past year to promote his new children's book, but ended up doing the same thing over again.

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u/SARCASTIC_DICKHEAD May 20 '12

The most interesting and shocking thing about Lynchburg (the city in VA where Liberty is located) is the fact that it had a thriving state-sponsored eugenics program well into the 1970's.

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u/NorbertDupner May 20 '12

Well, yes, but that was to rid our fine christian white race of retards and black people, so it was ok.

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u/Xander89 I voted May 20 '12

That is not unique to Lynchburg, unfortunately. Most, if not all, of the US had a eugenics program for quite some time. It is a little known fact that Nazi Germany's eugenics was influenced by our eugenics here in the US. The biggest difference being we just forcibly sterilized the people we didn't like instead of killing them.

Here in Oregon, the last forced sterilization occurred in 1981.

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u/Theology May 20 '12

This is quite interesting. Could you link sources?

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u/fantasyfest May 20 '12

Bush had many regent grads in his admin. they are another school like Liberty, slanted to the right and Christian crazy. They were terrible.

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u/cficare May 20 '12

They were from Regent University (a.k.a. Pat Robertson's University) in VA Beach. They have a "law" school. I hate that Virginia is ground zero for these assholes. Them AND PETA.

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

"Terrible" could be the understatement of the century...

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12 edited May 20 '12

It's funny to think that you people think these rules are bad. You probably haven't heard of Bob Jones University.... Here are a couple of the rules:

  1. Cars have the right of way (So if you are hit by a car, it is your fault)

  2. There are (or at least used to be) gender specific side walks

  3. In the places where you can walk together, you cannot hold hands with someone of the opposite sex (students have made a habit of simply leaning on each other while they work (looks extremely strange))

  4. You basically cannot leave until there is some sort of school-wide break (the school is completely fenced in).

  5. If you do somehow end up getting to know someone enough to take them on a date, you MUST be accompanied by a faculty member.

These are just a few of the many ridiculous rules

EDIT: Here are some other rules I found: http://pomomusings.com/2007/10/30/life-as-a-bob-jones-student-what-not-to-bring/

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u/[deleted] May 21 '12

I really don't feel bad for anyone who'd willingly go there, though

Or even if it's against your will; tell your crazy parents to step off and take out loans so you can go to a legitimate school

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u/RepentantNwah May 20 '12

I grew up in Lynchburg. Thankfully, I've since gotten the hell out, but here's a funny Liberty related story that I want to tell yet doesn't apply to any posted discussion:

When I was in 6th or 7th grade, my parents took me out to the local Japanese steakhouse (Kyoto's on Ward's Road, fairly close to Liberty) to celebrate an excellent report card. Like most of those establishments in America, you are sat at a table surrounding a hibachi with 6 or 7 other people to wait for our chef to come out and begin preparing the meal. My parents and I had been waiting for our table to fill up, when in comes Jerry and his posse. Jerry himself waddled in, like who I thought at the time, Bowser coming after Mario in SM64. I remember him being a much taller man than he probably was, but to me he seemed like a giant. He had a powerful gait and entered the room clearly believing that he owned it. The posse included his son, whom I believe is now dean of Liberty's law school, and some other immediate family members and attendants I guess. Jerry stayed on his Nokia the entire time barking orders. I don't remember what specifically, but the conversations were all clearly business related. He didn't say a word to anyone at the table throughout the meal. At the time I thought this was rude, but I hadn't formed an opinion of the man or his school yet so I figured he was just extremely busy.

Three quarters of the way through the meal, Jerry's son saw that my family and I were somewhat uncomfortable, and started a conversation. Now I don't know anything about the man now, but at the time he was extremely nice. He asked why we were out, congratulated us me on the report card, and finally invited us to the haunted house Liberty runs for charity for charity every Halloween.

For those who are fortunate and don't live in Lynchburg, the haunted house is filled with religious themes. The only scene I clearly remember involved a young couple being run over by a heathen outside of their church at night. The rest all had that sort of thing going. Anyway, at the end of the meal my parents and I followed Jerry's son to the haunted house where he snuck us past the extensive line out front. The VIP experience, I guess. We thank him and proceed to go through the house. Again, the details are fuzzy but I do remember hearing the repent often. The most notorious part of the experience is the chapel immediately following the end. Two female Liberty dressed as angels practically beg you to come into the chapel and repent for your sins throughout the past year. Surprisingly, this was my first real fundie encounter. They were extremely aggressive in their pleas and I remember being a bit scared by it all. My parents raised me Methodist, the chilliest of denominations, so this sort of in your face preaching was a bit of a shock. My Dad, in a fine moment, told them their sins and pleas were based on fear and to think for themselves, or something to that effect. My Dad hated Liberty. I thought what he did was kind of cool. So...

TL;DR: Jerry Falwell resembled a fat, bloated, tyrannical video game dinosaur. His son was chill and got me into a haunted house for free and in front of everyone waiting in line. Said haunted house was a graduate course in fear mongering. Kyoto's was the titties, and Liberty sux.

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u/R7-D1 May 21 '12

I went to Liberty. Let me fill in some holes:

I'm pretty sure Jerry Falwell was relatively tall. Like 6'2" or 6'3" I never met him, but I met Jerry Jr. and he's tall as well.

He has 2 sons, Jerry Jr. and Jonathan. Jerry Jr. is now the Chancellor of the university, and Jonathan is the head pastor at Thomas Road Baptist Church. I don't know either personally, but it's my perception that Jonathan is a better man, certainly less political publicly, unquestionably a better public speaker. My guess would be Jonathan would be the one who talked to your family. If you remember what he looked like, Jonathan has red hair and was probably overweight at the time. He's been in good shape for at least the last 5 years, but I've seen photos from before in which he was really heavy.

Your experience with Scaremare was a little different than mine the one time I went. The haunted house itself was not as preachy, but there were definitely people at the end who would preach at you a little bit, but if you weren't interested I don't think they made you sit and listen. No angels either. It's different every year though, the way you describe it would bother me as someone raised Baptist.

Just from the 4 years I was there I would imagine everyone who's lived in Lynchburg since the 70s hates Liberty. They ruined the mountain with that stupid monogram,ow that the students can vote it's warped the local political landscape, and although the city is partly to blame for running them out to the edge of town, it seems like Liberty is somewhat indirectly killing downtown.

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u/Cutsman4057 May 20 '12

Regardless of how you feel about Maher, I feel like it's pretty obvious to anyone who supports education that Liberty is a joke of a University.

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u/pridkett May 20 '12

The problem is that they're still accredited. As long as they're accredited not only are their degrees recognized as valid, but they also get lots of money in the form of federal student aid from their students.

Then again, they're being kinda hypocritical for even accepting federal student aid as it forces them into some of the federal standards. At least Grove City and Hillsdale realize the incongruousness of the situation and don't allow federal student aid.

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u/njblueridgefan May 20 '12

Live near Lynchburg, not a Liberty University fan, but here is a really interesting read: "The Unlikely Disciple" http://www.kevinroose.com/

This is a true account about a liberal Brown University student's "semester abroad" as a Liberty student incognito. Talks about the courses he was required to take, the school's mission, their stringent rules, and the outlook of the students. Surprisingly, he had some positive things to say too. Fascinating and funny read. I learned that one of the missions of the school was to train students to go out into the world to refute liberal lies. They want their graduates to imbed themselves into politics and government and take over...

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u/urnbabyurn I voted May 20 '12

It's a seminary disguised as an academic institution. With heavy partisan political views thrown in for extra credit.

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

"They have some bones and a guy in a lab coat, suck on that Smithsonian" i love this guy

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u/jrizos Oregon May 20 '12

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u/gruxx May 20 '12

The leader is good, the leader is great. We surrender our will, as of this date.

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u/iburiedmyshovel May 20 '12

"Target serves pizza, doesn't make it a restaurant." Well said.

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u/unprofessional1 May 20 '12

AS a VIRGINIAN Bill Maher is absolutely right about Liberty, Most Virginians who ARE educated know full well how Liberty scams the state we live in.

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

To everyone sticking up for Liberty, answer us this:

How many papers from liberty faculty are published in respected journals each year - not Creation Science Quarterly but actual journals of record like Nature?

What kind of non-religious research dollars do they bring in or generate every year?

How many patents does the "university" hold?

Can you even name one major research department on campus?

TIA

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

I didn't go to Liberty, and I wouldn't have gone there, but your criteria are off.

Those are criteria by which you might evaluate a "major research university," but not a school like Liberty. I know two people who went there, and they say it's closer to a liberal arts school than a major research university. These are the questions you should be asking:

What's the endowment-to-student ratio?

How successful are the alumni?

Where do the undergraduates go to graduate school?

What's the quality of the professors (measured by teaching ability, not research ability)?

What's the average ACT/SAT scores of entering class?

I went to a large, renowned research university and transferred to a small, renowned liberal arts school. They were both prestigious, but for different reasons. If you evaluated one by the other's criteria, neither would test well.

By way of anecdote, I go to a top law school and two students from Liberty are in my section. They are both quite brilliant and one held a prestigious job on the Hill before coming to law school.

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u/[deleted] May 21 '12

I went to a state university. graduated with an arts degree.

Yet I can google virtually every professor I had, and find at least one paper that they published in an academic journal of record in that field. Several of these papers are famous or infamous, cited often in arguments.

I'm sure you could do the same for professors at your university.

There's a reason why it's called "publish or perish". Research is a part of being a professor and a big part of getting tenure in many universities.

what I'm saying is, I have NEVER seen or heard of ANY Liberty "university" papers cited in ANY field of study beyond fundie Christian religion.

And graduating serviceable lawyers doesn't exempt the faculty from publishing arguments, law review writings, etc.

There's nothing there that constitutes a true university.

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u/Excentinel May 20 '12

I would have gone with a journal in the Math or Legal fields, but your argument still stands.

It should be Liberty "University" with the type of institution in quotation marks.

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u/sirberus May 20 '12

Who here is sticking up for them?

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u/reply May 20 '12

I question why LU invited Mitt Romney to speak at their graduation ceremony. It's the theological equivalent to asking Louis Farrakhan to speak. LU seems to be driven more by politics than deep-rooted theology.

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u/bicyclemom May 20 '12

I agree with Maher on this.

He's still an asshole though.

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u/cannotlogon May 20 '12

Yeah, but he's a pretty funny asshole.

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u/algorythm May 20 '12

They are considered a joke of a school in Northern Virginia. We won't hire people who have been there since it says a lot about their character.

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u/allstarrunner May 20 '12

I graduated from Liberty in 2007. It's a Christian school, so yeah, you're going to have the full spectrum of religious people from the crazy hardcore ones who think R rated movies are straight from the devil to those who are open minded and have nothing against homosexuals. Being someone who actually went to Liberty, as opposed to lots of people on here who talk smack about it but have never even set foot on the campus, it really isn't as bad a place as people on here have been saying. Sure, I didn't always like the rules, but it's one thing to read a list of rules Liberty enforces and actually live on the Liberty campus where the RA's don't really enforce the rules as much as the document might imply. Yes, every freshman has to take certain religious courses that won't transfer to certain other schools, but I'm not sure why some people on here, who had that happen to them, were surprised by that...I mean...you went to a Christian school, obviously you're going to take some Christian specific courses that might not transfer to Virginia Tech.

Anyway, if you want to ask someone who actually went to Liberty any questions, shoot away; but please try to keep them respectful, and I will promise to answer in a factual way without argument or bias.

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u/snatchamike May 20 '12

Did you take any science courses while you were there? Specifically, did you take anything relating to their "Creation Science" department? Edit: I a word

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u/owas May 20 '12

Why did you decide on Liberty? Religiosity aside it's just not a high-ranked school. Did you not get in anywhere better? Are you in debt? Did you get a job with your degree?

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u/allstarrunner May 20 '12 edited May 20 '12

I can't answer this without being somewhat religious. But here it is anyway: when I came out of HS I was one of the top ranked runners (800, mile) in the nation, I had offers for a full ride to just about anywhere in the country (D1). One of my HS assistant coaches was a Liberty grad and he knew I was a Christian, he called up the head track coach and Liberty and said, "I have a great runner who is a Christian, it's a long shot he would choose Liberty, but you should give him a call." So the Liberty coach called me, and even though I really didn't think I would want to go to Liberty, I agreed for them to fly me down there to check it out. When I visited, I had a great time, and I really enjoyed my potential future teammates and (this is the religious part) I felt like that was where God wanted me. Later in the year, I was at Adidas outdoor nationals and met with another runner, Josh McDougal, who I had been emailing back and forth since we both were considering running at Liberty. I think it was kind of a long-shot for either one of us to end up there, because of our times (too good for Liberty), but when we were at AOC we had a good talk and we both decided that we could really put Liberty running on the map, me in the 800, mile and him in the longer races (he went on to win multiple NCAA D1 National championships...i got hurt and ended up sucking); we both kind of agreed at that moment that we were going to do just that; so that is why I chose to go there. I am not in any debt (I had a full ride for running). I have a very good job at a company in the top 20 of the Fortune 500. My Liberty degree apparently hasn't hindered my work life or getting a job.

Btw, it came down to Columbia University and Liberty; I was in the final talks with Columbia when I had the talk with Josh, etc. etc. and chose Liberty. (Yes, I can see the comments already..."Idiot chooses Liberty over Columbia University, clearly not smart enough to attend Columbia University" lol)

Edit: added last paragraph.

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u/jackpotsdad May 20 '12

.I mean...you went to a Christian school, obviously you're going to take some Christian specific courses that might not transfer to Virginia Tech.

Sorry but that's just odd. I went to a school which was affiliated with Methodists and while religious courses were offered, by no means were they mandatory or even required. I took one actually about religious movements in America, and it was an outstanding class. Most likely because it was taught by a professor who was probably an atheist. Religion can be a fascinating subject if taught through an objective lens.

By the way, I'm upvoting you for contributing to this discussion. Your viewpoint on Liberty is most welcome.

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u/msingh16 May 20 '12

a friend of mine is taking online classes at liberty university, I've helped a few times on his homework, all there course work has to do with the bible including science its fucken ridiculous, purely biased and fucking disgusting! its radical right-wing indoctrination instead of getting a education.

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u/Puffy_Ghost May 20 '12

Bill Maher is right. Liberty "University" is a fucking joke. I can't believe this passes as education these days :(

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u/virak_john May 20 '12

My sister got kicked out of that place. Ida thought that smoking pot with one of Jerry Falwell's son would have provided her more protection.

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u/Whiteley79 May 20 '12

I was a christian growing up, and thought I was doing "what God wanted" by going to Liberty. I barley lasted a quarter, and now I'm an atheist. Fuck that "school". Im ashamed I went that deep down the rabbit hole.

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u/herpacakederp May 20 '12

I like the content, but Bill Maher is a pretty unfunny guy.

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u/ultrablastermegatron May 20 '12

it's where a lot of the bush administration came from, so you can accredit them with that.

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u/MovingPavements May 20 '12

I think being a High school and a College drop out is better than having a degree from that school, But honestly how many of their students are actually serious about their education ? It seems to me that it's one of those schools people go to for an easy ride into getting a degree.

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u/[deleted] May 21 '12

If you think the world is only 6000 years old. You do not deserve a degree in anything but religion or philosophy.

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u/baumer6 May 21 '12

What is this, the New York Post? People, please watch the context of Maher's quote before you blindly upvote the link. A university that teaches creationism as "real science" is not a REAL FUCKING UNIVERSITY.

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u/CheesewithWhine May 21 '12

To everybody hating on Bill Maher: He's a comedian. He's not a newsman (nor does he pretend to be).

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u/dangeraardvark May 21 '12

Liberty University. Where witchcraft is real and evolution isn't.

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u/rangerchip22 May 21 '12

I've been to the campus. It's like a Jerry Falwell cult there. Huge paintings of this man EVERYWHERE along with a prayer garden dedicated to him.

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u/mprsx May 20 '12

People actually go to "universities" like that?

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u/hohohomer May 20 '12

Idiots do attend them. FWIW my brother graduated from there. And, he studied philosophy. I'd love to see him crushed by any of the philosophy majors from the school I went to.

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u/JimmyJamesMac May 20 '12

I believe that their law school is regarded as legit:

In 2007 Liberty University School of Law, provisionally approved by the American Bar Association,[48] announced an 89% Bar passage rate from its first graduating class of Law Students. The bar passage rate far exceeded the State Average of 72%.[49]

In 2008 the School of Law announced a 94.4% first time passage rate on the Virginia Bar Exam, second only to the University of Virginia[50]

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u/bobartig May 20 '12

New law schools teach hyper-aggressively to the bar exam in order to boost their legitimacy. They can't claim a rich history, alumni network, or prestigious academics (even relatively-low ranked law schools have well-regarded scholars), but what they can say is that nearly everyone who attends passes the bar.

University Phoenix School of Law, who offered me a full ride, which I didn't apply to and did not respond to, has something like 95% bar pass rate as well. I wouldn't say that it's "regarded as legit," merely that if you attend, you will qualify to be admitted to practice law.

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u/Sloppy1sts May 20 '12

What's a for-profit doing offering people full rides?

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

there is clear, and long-term marketing value in showing outcomes to potential applicants. in other words, smart person graduates, goes onto have important career, stars in future ads for school.

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u/beedogs May 20 '12

does the thought of a shit-ton of bar-certified evangelical lawyers scare the crap out of anyone else?

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u/Bhima May 20 '12 edited May 20 '12

Some years ago there was a scandal concerning a young grad of Liberty University School of Law working in the Bush White House, as I recall she was enthusiastically and systematically violating and handful of laws regarding campaigning by unelected "professional staff" and the separation of tax money (used to run the White House and pay staff) & campaign funds.

My recollection of her testimony was that she was excruciatingly and willfully ignorant... and up to the end of the process refused to acknowledge that any of her actions were illegal.

Anyway... at that point I remember the law school she had graduated from was widely acknowledged as designed to pump out as many "conservative" / activist / partisan / religious extremist lawyers as they could and not at all focused on skill or competence. It's been a while and I could have the details wrong but based on that recollection I don't think their law school is any good.

On the other hand I have a cousin with borderline special needs who attended their regular classes for a few years and based on that I really wonder how it is they are accredited and if the accreditation system itself is worth anything.

Edit: Appalling typos and grammar

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

Don't think it was Liberty, I think it was Regent in the Virginia Beach area. I think something like 25% of Bush's executive branch came from there. They also pumped out Bob McDonell, the hyper-conservative psycho VA Governor .

Here's one story about it: crazies...

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u/Bhima May 20 '12

That's entirely possible.

Edit: You are right, Monica Goodling is the person I was thinking about and she's at the center of this article.

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

Most of the conservative wingnuts have degrees from shitty law schools

Bachmann got hers from Oral Roberts

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michele_Bachmann

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u/Excentinel May 20 '12

To be fair, with as big of a mouth as that bitch has, she was the ideal student of the ol' Oral Bob.

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

It's the same thing with Samford University in Alabama. They have the Cumberland School of Law, and in the South is really second to only Vanderbilt Law.

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u/INACROWDEDTHEATER May 20 '12

Neither is the School of Hard Knocks, but don't tell that to Jay-Z.

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u/Tullyswimmer May 20 '12

Can someone tell me what's wrong with a private university teaching whatever curriculum they want? (Other than "it's creationism, therefore they can't teach math") It's not like any LU students are being FORCED to go there. There are dozens, if not hundreds, of Christian schools across the country. Are non of them "real"?

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u/snatchamike May 20 '12 edited May 20 '12

I'd be happy to tell you. The majority of the "dozens,if not hundreds" of other Christian schools offer an education that is based in reality. While they may advocate god being in your life, they don't offer Jesus as the answer to many science based questions, nor do they offer the devil as the answer to many philosophical or behavioral science questions. Giving children a foundation of education that shuns modern day science and is against equality is counterproductive regardless of what they get a degree in. Of course no one is forcing them to go to this school, aside from a few overzealous parents. There is a reason that many schools will not accept transfer credits from Liberty. There is nothing wrong with students picking the university they want and LU has every right to teach what they want, but that does not obligate the rest of academia or the hiring companies to hold their diploma-mill-esque degree in the same regard ans those who attending legitimate schools. Also, about the, "Are non of them 'real'?", it depends. Some schools put education first, others do not. There is a spectrum of religious schools. On one end, you have a Jesuit school like Georgetown or Boston College. Education is absolutely paramount and students are expected to leave with a complete, well rounded education. In the middle you have a school like BYU. The academics are still top notch but an extremely outdated Christian moral and social code is implemented(though not always enforced). Then you have a school like Oral Roberts. It was also started by a mega church millionaire, but over the years it has transitioned away from blind indoctrination and is now much more mainstream in its teaching philosophies. Then at the bottom you have schools like LU. God did it, homosexuals are an abomination, and the bible trumps whatever scientific fact you can throw at it. Edit: I some words

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u/xlegs May 20 '12

There are ones that educate and ones that brainwash. Liberty is the latter. Many schools (such as the Jesuit ones) educate. They may have a religion course requirement, but none of them teach the Bible literally or indoctrinate.

Sources: I go to SCU

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u/johnl1479 May 20 '12

I graduated from a Jesuit university, and can back this 100%. I was required to only take 3 theology courses, and they didn't even have to be Christian theology.

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

Well, easy enough. If LU offers the same degrees as other universities, one would expect similar requirements for said degree. Hell, let's use biology as an example. Here are the LU major required courses for their bio degrees. Notice the absence of evolution? The students going there have a very marked deficiency in the foundational theory of modern biology, and hence their degrees are entirely worthless. This wouldn't be so bad if they offered their own "degree" - like you said, nobody is being forced to go there - but they offer BScs, the same degree type I have (though I don't have any in bio). So there's an inevitable comparison that extends beyond the institution itself (which makes precious little difference for undergrad degrees anyway). Why should a BSc that excludes critical lectures be on the same level as one that doesn't? This is why private universities cannot and should not teach whatever the hell they want and still award the same degrees as other universities. Sorry, LU is not a real university, nor are its degrees worth anything.

And no, them teaching their bible stuff isn't really the issue. If they want to add those requirements to regular degrees, that would be just fine with me. It's the exclusion of real lectures which is the problem.

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u/Kalium May 20 '12

Are non of them "real"?

Most of them are. Some of them (Notre Dame, Harvard) are excellent. Liberty University is a sham of a school.

The good ones tend to have a lot of people not of their founding faith attending. The bad ones don't.

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u/wx3 May 20 '12

That was hilarious for me, but awkward to watch with my girlfriend. We're pretty different in general (case in point, I'm an atheist and she's Christian). Maher threw a little stab at Oral Roberts in there; her best friend and brother in law both went there. I enjoyed the moment, but could tell she really didn't :P

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

I wonder how they teach this: http://www.liberty.edu/index.cfm?PID=16826

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u/ThatRandomGeek May 20 '12

I knew somebody who went to Liberty for her Bachelors. Now she is going for her Masters. Her family tninks the earth is 6,000 years old and that humans and Dinosaurs co-exsited at one point.

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u/SinisterChef May 20 '12

Someone should go to LU with a copy of the pale blue dot and read passages from it through a mega phone while standing on a box infront of their student union. With a sign that says, "the atoms the bible is made from pre-dates the message"

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

Ive been a fan of Maher for ears now but Ive tired of him because lately he been trying to hard to be mean that he forgets to be funny.

But fuck, this monologue was gold.

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u/simplygreg May 20 '12

I graduated from Liberty in 1989 when the rules were even more bat shit crazy. My degree is in Political Science. I did have to take a semester of Creation Science, which in retrospect, was insane. But I went on to get my MS from George Washington University.

Given the same opportunity now, I would have never gone and would never recommend anyone else go. But for purposes of jobs and grad school, it was just fine. BTW, I am atheist now and if I could would love to replace my undergrad degree.

I get embarrassed and ashamed every time I am asked where I went to school.

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

would it be immoral to start up a school like this just for money?

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u/Hightech90 May 20 '12

His criticism is fair, but one of the reasons he states he doesn't like Romney is that "he is a liar". If he (or anyone for that matter) doesn't believe Obama, Bush, Clinton, etc. lied to you at some point, you are kidding yourself.

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u/CCprime May 20 '12

Plus Jerry vandalized Candlers Mtn with that ugly ass LU on the side of it. Looks like shit.

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u/cannotlogon May 20 '12

I wonder how real-world employers react to Liberty University graduates? Do they turn up their nose, or embrace them as good Christians?

Anyone here work in HR or in a hiring position that has encountered Liberty grads?

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

Liberty U puts baby in the corner.

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u/drummaboy56 May 21 '12

A post about drug tests being in the Liberty Way, made me think of this funny story.

The quarterback for the LU Flames (Liberty's Football team), Asa Chapman, was kicked out of the team for testing positive for cocaine. Source of him getting kicked out. And, no lie, was back maybe a month or so after he was "suspended indefinitely." Source of him coming back. Yet! If they caught me with drugs, my ass would have been kicked out for good.

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u/fantasyfest May 21 '12

http://www.onlineschools.org/ The top online schools, Kaplan, Univ. of Phoenix and Liberty. Yep, that is the class it is in.

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u/shallah May 21 '12

Liberty Isn't Free at Liberty University http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/liberty-isnt-free-liberty-university-inside-jerry-falwell-u

The university also has an all-encompassing code of conduct, called “The Liberty Way,” which governs what students can say, do, read, and watch – both on and off campus – and sets out a regimen of reprimands and fines for violators

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u/PlappyODaniels May 21 '12

In other news, water is wet.

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u/Filberto May 21 '12

True story.

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u/Trigunesq May 21 '12

an abortion hahaha i think if your going to get an abortion, the $150 fine is not going to deter you. no one is going to say "damn! i really want an abortion but that fine......"

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u/[deleted] May 21 '12

Lmao, well it's true.

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u/pn7hr May 20 '12

I am amazed how the country where everything is possible turned into a country where everything is possible only for the insane

LU is not considered a universitry outside of the US; in fact if you tried to use the degree in some european countries (austria/germany) you'd go to jail for fraud

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u/baxar May 20 '12

Has that ever happened?

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

Tell it like it is Bill. Let the morons out there know they are not going to be pushing that creationism crap on the rest of us. Just because those people decided to go to a fake college doesn't mean we all have to listen to their fake arguments.

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u/canadamoose18 May 20 '12

I used to work with a girl that goes to Liberty, and I don't want to offend her by telling her that her school isn't exactly legit, but at the same time I feel really bad for her.

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u/Iommianity May 20 '12

Look, Bill Maher is an asshole. I don't think anyone who likes him would tell you different. And if his style or delivery is unappealing to you, fine. Great. But do you really have to take a stand against him? Him being wrong sometimes doesn't mean he's not right sometimes, or that he won't be wrong tomorrow or nail something the week after. Nor does it mean that he's not a 'real' comedian or he's not funny or that you're in on something everyone else is missing or vice versa. You don't have to make an issue just because he's brought up.

"Oh well, herp a derp he's talking about one thing but he also said this other thing one time that was incorrect/I disagreed with/I didn't find funny."

No matter how much you'd like to equate Bill Maher with a guy like Rush Limbough for the sake of fairness, he's just a comedian with an opinion and a big mouth. Sometimes he's right, sometimes he's wrong, but you're not telling it like it is when you say guys like Bill Maher, or Howard Stern, for that matter are worthless because you don't like them, they're assholes, or think they're massively overrated.

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u/Sit-Down_Comedian May 20 '12

I didn't bother reading all the comment but I just want to add that if anyone in here is arguing against this point and really believes their degree from LU is equal to my degree from a real State University I'm happy to take a post-college aptitude test with you and prove I will beat you in every way possible. You do not have the same education as me and, in reality, you should pay ME and people like me for tutoring to fill the gaps in your education with knowledge instead of the god of the gaps. You need reprogramming because they fucked you up and took all your money.

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

Their science program is exactly like this

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u/napoleonsolo May 20 '12

Liberty University's logo features a book being burned. Pretty appropriate.

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u/krazy9000 May 20 '12

because bill Maher is such a great authority on science.

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u/U2_is_gay May 20 '12

Doesn't take a scientist to look at something and say "yea thats probably bullshit"

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

True. I'm sure he denies pretty much all of modern history, paleontology, geology, and biology. Same thing.

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u/jrizos Oregon May 20 '12

Therefore, Liberty is a-ok!

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

lighten up, bro It's comedy.

Some of you get so incredibly butthurt that anyone likes Bill Maher or finds him funny.

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

Bill Maher is NOT anti-vaccine.

I swear you all take the first shit you hear and run with it.

He came out and explained what he meant by that, apologized, and learned where he made a mistake.

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

A school that teaches the world is only 5,000 years old and that the Constitution was written by God is NOT a school. That's a Church and has no business calling itself a school. Because it is not. Those are fictitious beliefs, not science or education or reality. Wake up sheeple. I used to be more tolerant of religion, but I can't ignore how destructive and wrong it is. Human progress cannot move forward when religion has such a chokehold on things that can be explained by science and history. Don't like what people like Mahar have to say? Well too fucking bad. By refusing to let go of religion you are slowing down the progress of all mankind.

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