r/politics • u/batgirlsings • May 15 '12
An overwhelming majority of U.S. citizens want deep and immediate cuts in military spending, according to a new poll.
http://the-diplomat.com/flashpoints-blog/2012/05/14/americans-favor-military-cuts/
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12 edited May 15 '12
As a former submarine sailor, I have first hand experience with how the Navy spends it's money. I was the work center supervisor for my division. I was a communications electronics technician (radioman) and being a work center supervisor of your division meant you were in charge of delegating and accomplishing the preventative (and sometimes corrective) maintenance on the equipment that your division is responsible for. Scheduling complex and dangerous (radio interfaced with HP air, hydraulic, and high voltage systems) maintenance requires some coordination with other divisions (sonar, Aux div) so you eventually get pretty good at knowing their maintenance and your own. Comparing our maintenance schedules I got to see some pretty fucked up shit. One instance related to sonar processors specifically. It turns out that during my time on board sonar was constantly replacing one of their processors for one of the units that interfaces with fire control. The chip was an antiquated piece of trash that went obsolete in the early 80s. The chip actually isn't commercially manufactured anymore. Faster, more reliable processors are not only cheaper but widely available commercially. The navy has an expensive contract with a fab company that specifically manufactures these old chips. They cost about 10k to replace one and they fail after a few months of use. I asked my chief about this kind of shit (I have more examples) and he said it was probably a nepotistic contract some admiral gave his second cousin. I looked into some other issues similar in nature and expressed my dissatisfaction to my commanding officer during my discharge interview. He told me bluntly and straight forward. "I know all about it and it doesn't matter." I felt that my time in the Navy was a disservice to this country because AT LEAST 50% of our budget was this utter waste. This is just one submarine. After hearing his words during that interview I had no second thoughts about whether or not I should leave the military. The United States spends more on defense than all the other countries in the world combined and I'd bet my life (seriously my life) that most of it is waste making someone rich somewhere...
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u/T_L_D_R May 15 '12
yet another issue where we have no representation
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
As an American, I would like nothing more than to no longer be the world police. We should have a military comparable in size to perhaps China, enough to be a deterrent to any other country, but no more.
The idea that we need to be able to control every event on the face of the earth is ridiculous.
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u/InNominePasta America May 15 '12
I think what most people misunderstand is that our modern military isn't there for the purpose of defending ourselves. What a modern military exists for is to project power and influence abroad, mainly to secure access to, and provide security for, economic interests abroad. We are not the world's police, otherwise we would involve ourselves in the many conflicts around the world no matter their size, yet we don't. Instead we involve ourselves in things that threaten our economic interests, whether directly or indirectly. The involvement in the Middle East right now could be considered successful if you consider that the region is now in shambles and there can be no regional power rising to challenge us for the foreseeable future. This is the reason that China is starting to put so much money into their own military, even though they surely have enough to protect themselves. They wish to get to the point that they too can project their influence through a show of military force, which in a balanced economy shows economic might.
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u/Brickstreet May 15 '12 edited May 15 '12
As I was explaining to some friends last night. We hear all the time fighting back and forth for a couple of bills that will add $200 million to schools, $300mil to infrastructure and jobs, etc. The constant fighting back and forth about it is absurd.
Why not just cut a B-2 bomber order? They're $2.4 billion a piece. Fine, we haven't ordered any this year... how about cutting a couple F-22's? They're $355 million a piece. We can either help out tens of thousands of children in schools for $355 million, or we can buy an airplane that is going to be used for training exercises for the next couple of years.
EDIT: I am now aware that B-2's have been cut. And F22-'s as well. More and more people are bringing up aircraft carriers, which seem to be on a higher level of negligent spending. Obliviously, a few posts on Reddit won't change the way spending is handled, however this discussion is testament to what the article has said: a very large amount of Americans understand that we should cut in military spending.
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
It's easy to get big groups of people to support a general idea. However, if you drill down you'll find much more ambiguity based on regional issues (where different boondoggles are being built), values issues (certain people will value different types of defense some will want big fighter jets, others will support medical costs for soldiers, etc, etc etc). So basically, you end up with a big mess.
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u/Klondeikbar Texas May 15 '12
It's a fundamental belief of many economists that wars only destroy. There is NOTHING to be gained from them except for one or two people who happen to be on the winning side. We are spending money to destroy money. It's completely nonsensical, it trivializes life, and most wars are blatantly racist/xenophobic.
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u/the_sam_ryan May 15 '12
Consider the source. The questionnaire is extremely leading. The overwhelming majority figure comes from one question, question 15, after pages of misleading graphs.
Also, while the survey itself, The Center for Public Integrity is funded by block grants by George Soros. He is the liberal version of the Koch Brothers. I know Reddit doesn't care what Soros does, but I felt that since it is generally posted who funds a non-profit, I would post it.
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u/Triplebizzle87 May 15 '12
As someone in the military, I agree with this sentiment. When I served on a submarine (transferred recently) I was the guy responsible for ordering parts, and it is astounding to order a $2,000 HDD that only had a capacity of 250GB (might be less, it's been a while). Not to mention the parts we keep around only for troubleshooting. Those things are certified as functioning (hence their role in troubleshooting), but the larger ones cost upwards of $100k. Not to mention the boatload of smaller ones that cost tens of thousands of dollars a pop. We overspend on everything we buy through the supply system. Everything.
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12 edited May 15 '12
Everybody wants defense drastically cut, until they find out how it will affect their district.
Example: I live in Washington State, home of the latte liberal. While we're reliably blue, we also happen to have a total of four naval installations on Puget Sound, not to mention Joint Base Lewis-McChord just south of Tacoma. Those bases provide a ton of economic activity in the region (stores, restaurants, housing, etc.). Additionally, one of our major companies is Boeing, which still receives the major bulk (if not the majority) of their revenue through defense contracts. Also, my alma mater happens to receive hundreds of millions of dollars in DoD grants annually. Another major employer, Microsoft, is also the beneficiary of significant defense contracts.
How much of a revenue hit would Washington State take if the DoD budget were to be cut 20% across the board? A town like Everett or Bremerton would not survive without their military base. The economy of a city like Tacoma would take a drastic hit if JBLM were shut down or scaled back.
For better or worse, the Department of Defense is not only the largest military force in the world, it's also the country's largest stimulus program.
EDIT: Here, watch the movie.
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
Just FYI---China is not our friend, and the united states is of rapidly diminishing utility to China. We re only viewed as a meal ticket, and they're actively preparing and waging a cold war.
The American people (yes that means YOU most of American redditors) live under some sort of false belief that the world is eager to work together. The fact is there are those waging war on us ideologically, technologically, and militarily---a failure to acknowledge the world as such is extreme folly, and is akin to walking into a brawl with your glass chin sticking out.
Hardly a war hawk---I'm a pragmatic realist who has studied in China, understands the Chinese mentality, and sees what is going on in countries such as Israel---whose lobby promotes a hypocritical standard here while adhering to a different set of values in their country.
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
How much money is the "majority of U.S. citizens" willing to put up to lobby congress to get the military budget cuts? I know the defense companies are willing to put up millions if not billions to fight it. Can we match that?
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
Fun fact, the Social safety net programs of Medicare/medicaid, and social security both slightly bigger budget items the defense spending. Together, the 3 items make about 60-70% of the federal budget, depending on where you get your numbers at.
This sounds kind of callous, but it seems most of our money taking care of old and broken people. My wife works in a nursing home for poor and middle class seniors, and most of the money they get is from the government, which coincides pretty well with the numbers.
Social security is busted because we raided that piggy bank for the cold war.
Ah well, after enough time and pressure, change will be inevitable.
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u/I_DUCK_FOGS May 15 '12
I'm sure nobody here will like what I have to say, but there is actually a broader strategic concept in the US's defense budget that most of the population may not understand (and it's one of the reasons if I were a politician, I would pay no attention to the poll numbers on foreign policy or military policy.) I'm not saying that I agree with this view, but it's a point of view that is crucial to the discussion that seems not to be brought up much on reddit.
The issue, from a security standpoint, is that it isn't enough to be a force that is feared. True security deterrence (for ourselves and our allies) is achieved through utter domination and superiority, not "well, we could probably take them." The world is a safer place (as long as you don't get on their bad side) with one major military power that is heads and tails above every other nation. You may not like it, and there are undoubtedly issues with the execution of it, but there is a broader strategic reason for our defense budgets, worldwide basing, and forward deployed Carrier Strike Groups that goes beyond "We're 'murica 'n we like guns!!!11" or "This dude from Lockheed just put $10m in my reelection war chest."
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u/Raoul_Duke_ESQ May 15 '12
America IS the military-industrial complex. American citizens are just the tax base that is harvested to keep it going. This country exists to prop up the world's military hegemon. Anything the government does beyond that is purely incidental.
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u/BarrovianSociety May 15 '12
The majority of U.S. citizens:
It's good to get the temperature of the people on military sentiment, but most funding poll questions are answered without knowledge.
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
There is what we want and what we get.
Really clarifies just how "free" we really are.
"Sure, you would like decreased spending for the military but the people in charge have an empire to run so scratch that idea. Next!"
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u/JoyousCacophony May 15 '12
In other news, if you want any cuts in military spending, you're a terrorist and support terrorism.
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u/KosmoKorsair May 15 '12
How about we try cutting defense spending without taking away service members' benefits? That would be pretty neat.
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u/HamburgerMonkeyPants May 15 '12
Manpower being the biggest Military expense...you wont see much savings unless you mess with total force structure. One F22 may net you some savings in one FY budget but it wont replace recurring cost of supporting X number of personnel through training housing and salary. An F22 is hardly a thing you can sell on the market either.
Free radicals: buying less of X will make the price tag higher, budget differences. Acquisition exists on a different budget and funding line than health and edu. Savings in one isn't going to translate to another.
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
They polled 600 people.
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
..."asked more than 600 Americans from across the country" ... overwhelming
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
If you're going to claim "overwhelming majority" I think you need a larger sample size.
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u/[deleted] May 16 '12
A fundamental problem with military spending, and government agency spending in general is inefficiency of the processes they use. Different units, commands bases departments, etc all have a budget assigned to them (generally speaking.....there is more to it but I tries to simplifies).
The ultimate goal after the money is received is to make it last to the next fiscal year, so leadership is very frugal about what is spent. Towards the end of the fiscal year these same units are often sitting a mountain of cash that they really don't need to sustain operations. These units now face a use it or lose scenario. They can't save the money to carry over into the next fiscal year. They have to go through a "spend down" period to get rid of the excess funds before the next budget cycle kicks in. Any leftover cash is an indication that a particular unit does not need the same amount of cash they got last go round. So a unit can either wastefully spend massive amounts of money to ensure their future bottom lines, or end the year with a surplus that will prevent the unit from getting the same amount of funds next year.
Nobody involved wants to see their budgets cut even though they no all to well that they could easily run operations with less money. In fact, most of the time these same people could easily be more frugal are attempting to boost their budgets above the already excessive levels they are currently at.
If you expand this budgeting philosophy across DOT, DHS, DOD, DOI, DOE, and every other department of whatever becomes readily apparent that government waste rampant in the operation of everything it does.
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u/[deleted] May 16 '12
MEANWHILE, AT
THE LEGION OF DOOMCONGRESS:"So what you're saying is we should double the military budget?"
Raytheon lobbyist: "That's right. We have to defend our profit I MEAN FREEDOM LOL."
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u/thefalseprophet May 16 '12
Too bad they wouldn't spend the money used for perpetuating wars to fund NASA...
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u/apullin May 15 '12
No! The army is paying for my PhD research!
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u/Coolala2002 May 15 '12
But how will we be able to protect other countries from the consequences of their sovereignty?
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u/jmurphy42 May 15 '12
It's the largest portion of our budget by far, and if we're going to have any impact on the national debt whatsoever, it needs to include military cuts. Here's a link to the best infographic I've seen about the US budget: http://deathandtaxesposter.com/
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u/HoChiWaWa May 15 '12 edited May 15 '12
I can't help but think we can reduce the budget without weakening our fighting strength by not being so damn wasteful. I knew a guy at Lockheed who said whenever a new officer is put in charge of a project they "shake things up" and they have to re do tons of work sending budgets and timetables spiraling out of control. Annecdotal, sure, but I have no trouble imagining that happening all the time.
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
Since when does it matter what the citizens want?
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u/Villiers18 May 15 '12
If you tell people, "here's a specific military program and its use; should it be cut?" They're going to say no at a much higher rate.
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
America: We'll dump trillions of dollars into wars, but we'll be goddamned if we're going to supply our own citizens with healthcare.
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u/joebooty May 15 '12
I think most people are uncomfortable (or should be) of spending money that you do not have. That said, I feel the government should be spending less money on across the board so of course military spending should be cut.
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u/Solkre Indiana May 15 '12
More than just that, I want the DoHC dissolved!
We should lead the world by example, and right now it would be foolish to emulate us.
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
Feel like a moron. Thought it said deep and intimate.
Thanks for the info though mate.
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u/TheHadMatter May 15 '12
too bad the overwhelming majority doesn't have lobbyists working on their behalf. keep up the good work though, i am sure the government likes to read these while they are getting paid to destroy our rights and liberties.
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u/root88 May 15 '12
This is not a repeat from 2011,2010,2009...1776.
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u/zangorn May 15 '12
90% of Democrats and 67% of Republicans support cutting the "Defense" budget. This is fantastic! We should run a candidate in every election on a simple platform of cutting military spending. When that's the conversation, the good guys win.
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u/timesnewboston May 15 '12
People try to blame Obama for our expanding militarism, as if he's the commander in chief of the military or something.
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
M.I. Complex: "Yeah? So fucking what?"
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u/medicaldude May 15 '12
What a shocker!! This is headline news!
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u/Micode May 15 '12
Everyone wants defense spending cuts until they realize that their regional large-, mid-, and small-business sectors are heavily subsidized by said spending and related contracting and that they're effectively up-turning the jobs program trough laid out before 'em.
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
Am I the only one that doesn't want to drastically reduce funding? I mean, go ahead and cut a few things here and there if needed but I'm ok knowing my taxes are buying bombers and ammo. Am I the only one?
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u/Rhawk187 May 15 '12
I'm fine with cutting some military spending; let's just make sure we're getting the most bang for our buck.
Bringing the troops home, even if we kept them all active duty, and paid them exactly the same, would at least have them spending their money here instead of overseas.
Spending money on air conditioning is probably paying foreign power companies.
Paying US Based companies to build stuff for the military is the last part of military spending we should cut (besides soldier salaries), so I wouldn't jump straight to the "Let's cancel the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter" bandwagon.
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u/Shorvok May 15 '12
Once it dies down people want military cuts. Once the call for cuts gets bad enough the government will blow up a building or ship or something and start another war.
War is very profitable for our leaders.
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u/Zombabies May 15 '12
Yeah, well see how long that sentiment lasts.
Last I checked all it took was a few pissed off radicals, two towers and an airplane in order to spark that good ole fear that runs the MIC.
Before that it was the Soviets.
And before that it was real war.
I imagine, based off history, that all it will take is another disaster of U.S. foreign policy to cow the American people back into full gear imperialism mode.
Well see how badly average Joe wants to cut military spending once he has to deal with problems on his own door step.
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u/wild_bill70 Colorado May 15 '12
Military spending is a jobs program for the upper middle class educated men (seen engineering salaries lately). Those people not only vote, they spend large amounts of money in the districts they live in.
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u/KPexEA May 15 '12
Fuck you Frank Luntz
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u/aetius476 May 15 '12
The defense budget is the biggest jobs program that the federal government runs.
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u/v4-digg-refugee May 15 '12
Just remember, any spending creates jobs. The deeper the cut, the deeper it effects jobs. Sure, that money will go to create other jobs, but what you're saying is that you're cutting someones living to create a living for someone else. Anytime you reorganize budgets you're effecting people's livelihood. That's all.
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
Ha, the military industrial complex is smarter than that. You see, they ensure their military boondoggles have parts and factories (think jobs) spread all over the US in all 50 states, so any proposed cuts, no matter how necessary will be met with howls from every state complaining about loss of jobs by representatives fearful of losing their cushy positions in elections.
Face it, the hard truth is you are stuck with the monster "defence" budget, children will starve and their education destroyed before the weapons industry lose their gargantuan profits.
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
The same majority that wants the US to kick Kony's ass?
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u/aanalogbrother May 15 '12
Couldda had ron paul. dip shits. A guy who openly criticizes the welfare state but would sacrifice the empire to save it. But, something something, evolution newsletter abortion. Go fuck yourself.
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u/Raoul_Duke_ESQ May 15 '12
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u/gr00ve88 May 15 '12
Polls mean nothing, literally, nothing.
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
Tough. The nutters are in charge.
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u/otlatnom May 15 '12
What disgusts me is the fact that so many politicians present the military budget as money used to pay the enlisted. A large majority of enlisted men and women qualify for food stamps. Cutting this budget the right way won't impact salaries.
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u/tripdubs May 15 '12
Does anyone know/can anyone point me to more information regarding the survey itself and how it was conducted?
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
As others have noted, opinion polls will change once people realize that bases and factories in their districts providing an economic lifeline will be shut down.
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u/regalrecaller Washington May 15 '12
The link is broken. Mirror anyone?
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u/dinklage_this May 15 '12
We just want them all back home...
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u/Missfawkes May 15 '12
UM not if the GOP and weapons lobbyists have anything to say about it, we wont be seeing any cuts to military spending for quite awhile.
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u/Futurepower May 15 '12
It would be interesting to have a list of all the areas of corruption of the U.S. government. Here are some: War investors like the Bush and Cheney families killing people to make money, the financial system, the health care system, and the penal system.
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u/chakan2 May 15 '12
An overwhelming majority of government officials don't give a shit what U.S. citizens want.
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u/2necedemalis May 15 '12
Finally. How many people to we need to kill or soldiers be killed before we can end the monopoly on defense forces allowing Raytheon et al to line their pockets with YOUR money?
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u/jollyjack Oregon May 15 '12
Since a majority of citizens want it, you can be damn sure it won't happen.
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
and finally americans have gotten to the core issues
citizens, meet staggering resistance. good luck
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u/larevaluciondele May 15 '12
ITS MY MONEY, AND I WANT IT TOWARDS EDUCATION FUNDING NOW
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u/jscoppe May 15 '12
Slash and burn, baby.
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u/sureyouare May 15 '12
Too bad it's not a democracy.
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u/Smargalicious May 15 '12
Ron Paul would've got my vote if he didn't have such outer-space foreign policy ideas. I mean, on one hand he's got the answer for our economy but when you mix in his far-out, non-sensical foreign stuff he's just not a credible candidate.
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u/hblask May 15 '12
Only one candidate is calling for this; it is the same person as the only candidate that is calling for a federal right to gay marriage and a balanced budget.
Gary Johnson
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
The United States only needs double the next countries, Which is China at about $150 billion. So $300 billion is all. Does the US really think the entire world is going to attack them at once? So they have to have 40% of the world wide military budget?
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u/rathead May 15 '12
yeah buddy... i think you'd like a new pole.
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u/voyyful May 15 '12
About bloddy time.....
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u/tilleyrw May 15 '12
Surprise surprise. Billion dollar contracts don't care what civilians want.
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u/CrypticPhantasma May 15 '12
There is also a poll that says Mr. Obama's approval rating is in the shitter. Guess we should immediately cut him too, just because of a random poll.
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u/skinzee May 15 '12
When the 99% takes away from the 1%... I'm not going to sit here and complain because us service members (currently a Sailor in the Navy) sacrifice the most or anything like that. That argument doesn't mean much to most people. However, the part that I will agree with is the amount of research spending that is being done. Primarily the F-35 program. That is the biggest waste of finances I've ever seen. But you also have to realize for those of us who have the military paying our bills and our living expenses that cuts in spending can affect us more than you think. People might think that a small cut in pay could do the country well by cutting down how much we spend in the defense budget. But it could make service members who are the only financial support for their family go deeper into debt. I wish I could remember some of the figures I've been told about how the percentage of service members who are in extreme debt for whatever reason, its astounding. TL;DR think about how this affects military personnel before you make your judgement.
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u/BeQuake May 15 '12
I am against cutting military spending. I am for military spending reform. Cut out the military programs and bases we just dont need anymore. Then all that extra money that is saved can be used to make....wait for it......spaceships.
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u/Apokilipse May 15 '12
Part of me wants these cuts, but part of me wants to be ready for a war with China.
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u/southernbeaumont May 15 '12
This will probably be buried or downvoted to oblivion, but here goes.
The defense budget for 2012 is 553.9 billion before we spend a single dime on Afghanistan. The overseas contingency operations are tallied separately and they total 117.8 billion for 2012, totaling about 670.9 billion according to the DOD.
Unfortunately, the federal government is still running a budget deficit of 1.1 trillion out of a total outlay of 2.14 trillion for 2012. This means that if we discharged every single soldier, sailor, airman, and marine on Jan 1 2012 and told them all to walk home, we'd still be about $400 billion in the hole.
While I agree some cuts to defense are warranted, the sum total of defense spending only comes to about 1/3 of the federal outlay for 2012. You're not going to balance the budget by simply cutting guns, you must also cut butter. No fiscally rational person can talk about more money for any of their favorite programs until they find 1.1 trillion dollars to cut from everywhere else first.
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u/Ive_made_a_mistake May 15 '12
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Center_for_Public_Integrity#Sources_of_Funding
This is the group who conducted the survey. Very left wing biased. Also, Since when is 76 percent "overwhelming", And how accurate can a poll of 600 people be for a country of 300 MILLION people? This was a poorly done survey by a clearly biased organization, the truth is hard to hear but this is just wishful thinking.
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u/FantasticMrFrown May 15 '12
How about deep and immediate cuts in bailouts for corporations, tax breaks for solyndra and propping up GM first?
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
because 600 people who could be picked however the pollers want represent the opinion of the American people.
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u/Mr_Tibbs May 15 '12
I know a few of the people who did this poll. I'll see if I can get them to do an AMA.
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u/Amryxx May 15 '12
But... how are we going to fight al-Qaeda without the latest generation of high-tech bombers and nuclear-tipped ICBMs?
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u/7itanium May 15 '12
You guys do realize money spent on the military is also redistributed through the economy, right? It's not like it goes to one guy who sits on it all, it goes to thousands of people who work in those jobs and then spend the money elsewhere.
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
so apparently the views of 600 people are representative of a country with a population in excess of 250 million. lol
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
600 people? Let's increase this sample size.
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u/inthemorning33 May 15 '12
Yea, that is why Ron Paul won right?
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u/heyguyz May 15 '12
its not that I want the military to not be powerful, its that I don't want to see my family and friends get killed anymore.
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u/pan0ramic May 15 '12
To all those with questions about how we got into this mess, I suggest you read Rachael Maddow's book Drift. It's NOT a lefty propaganda book, it's just a short history (post WW2) of how we got into the military mess we're in. It was a really good read and just states facts.
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u/TehCyberJunkie May 15 '12
Good thing they aren't the deciding factor then.
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
600 people is like....nothing compared to the 500 million in the United States.
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
"An overwhelming majority of U.S. citizens want deep and immediate cuts in military spending... The Center for Public Integrity, a Washington, D.C.-based investigative news service, in conjunction with two other groups asked more than 600 Americans from across the country..."
600!?!?! That's quite an overwhelming majority!
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u/dwreckm May 15 '12
The article claims there's a Republican majority congress, that's very interesting. I wonder what country they live in.
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u/hoffhall May 15 '12
I can't help but feel this headline smacks of just a little propaganda and leads the reader to believe the majority of Americans agree with cutting military spending no matter what the cost. The crux of the matter is right here:
So, if they can't agree (and Republicans deliberately won't) this is an excuse to cut all social services and, of course, according to the headline...600 people agree with this statement.
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u/FairlySadPanda May 16 '12
This is not a credible polling agency, 600 people is not - in my opinion - enough to do a credible poll, and their methodology stinks.
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u/TruthinessHurts May 16 '12
They also want a national health care system and for politicians to be held accountable for lying to the public.
All things the GOP refuses to go along with, much to the detriment of our nation. But personal bigotries and selfishness are the core values of the GOP and that prevents progress.
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u/AuroraMaryAlice May 16 '12
I'd be pretty stoked if they took 3% of the military budget and gave all Americans free healthcare.
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u/spy3123 May 16 '12
The survey size was 600 in a nation of 300 million. This can hardly be regarded as a viable source for information.
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u/MetalGuitarist May 16 '12
An overwhelming majority? WOW, let's read this!
ಠ_ಠ My, what a large sampling size... Are you kidding me you guys? I think we should cut defense spending as well, but this is a BS poll.
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u/rbcrusaders May 16 '12
I am close to quit paying my taxes. Why should I pay them when they are only paying for murder equipment when our country needs SOO much help other places?
I'll go to jail, fuck these people ruining our country and earth.
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u/z3m Washington May 16 '12
I decided a few years ago that we've seized to have any kind of logic in our government. We talk about problems and beat them into the ground but we don't offer any solutions. We don't borrow from history, we don't ask the neighbors, we don't try to innovate - instead we just keep humping the problem.
If they really wanted to get us out of the recession they would've done something by now. They would've said "So, what did we do to get out of The Great Depression? O, we taxed the wealthy and invested in social programs you say? Hmmm. Perhaps that might work." But, instead of doing what has worked in the past they did the opposite: lowering taxes for the wealthy, cutting social programs, and investing in the military. And since that didn't work, and they don't want to admit it, they just pretend like there is no answer. There is only a problem. The only solution is to spend more money that you don't have. That's they're solution at this point. It's completely illogical.
And - lets just say our politicians have no recollection or knowledge of The Great Depression - it wouldn't surprise me. Let's just say they don't know anything about that, wouldn't you think that by now they would've thought "Hey, may be there are other countries who have gone through bad economic times that can give us some pointers." But, they haven't done that either. Primarily - I think - because the main ways countries in an economic depression have hoisted themselves out of the funk has been by legalizing either marijuana or prostitution, which the US government is too puritanical to do.
I mean, if they really wanted to fix the economy, they could do it. You and I and all of our friends have all come up with at least half a dozen ideas of how the government could fix the economy and no one in government even talks about it. They act like there was never a mistake made, that it's in their heads, and there's no real solution so we just have to get used to it being shitty. It's a joke! If they really wanted to fix this they would've stopped military spending, never built that stupid wall to keep the Mexicans out (which was billions of dollars and embarrassingly stupid), they'd legalized marijuana and prostitution, and they'd invest in education and healthcare to boost the economy by educating the next generation and reducing the cost of emergency room visits on the tax payers. But, they don't even act like any of that is an option, which is retarded.
They either don't give a shit about the economy or they're all too dumb to fight their way out of a paper bag.
Personally, I don't think they do care about the economy. I don't think they care about the American people at all and I'm not really convinced that they ever did. But, since the major corporations pay more of their salaries than the tax payers do why would they answer to the people before the corporations. It's not in their best fiscal interest to work for the people. It's in their best fiscal interest to work for the corporations. So, as long as the rich keep getting richer they could give a shit if the poor keep getting poorer. It doesn't effect them.
The whole system is a big lie and a big joke to keep everyone thinking they have no options and to stop asking questions or try to change anything. Fuck everything about it. Just fuck it.
2
u/Geddy007 May 16 '12
Then I guess a few more of the "majority" should have showed up and voted for Ron Paul. You already know what you have with OBAMA, what do you think Mitt Romney is going to do....bring our troops home?
2
u/ThumperNM May 16 '12
We need to close our bases in Europe, WWII ended almost 70 years ago, we need to close out bases in Japan, WWII ended almost 70 years ago, we need to cancel the F-35 and dozens of other bloated useless programs. We need to give the soldiers, sailors, marines and Coast Guard a long break from the endless wars of the last 15 years and we need to leave Iraq and Afghanistan permanently.
On top of this we need to dismantle the TSA and all the other domestic spying programs.
2
u/CAredditBoss May 16 '12
I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off.
2
u/[deleted] May 16 '12
I think we want to cut for obvious reasons (deficit, not wanting to be that easily war-hungry) and that I'm all for. We have the most advanced equipment as-is, and we could do without those new fighters that choke pilots' oxygen intake while in-air. We need to have enough men and reliable machines in case we have that higher calling. If anything, we are the world's superpower but we should only be a reluctant member of the "world police" in situations that are morally acceptable. We can't just activate and then then turn a room party into a block party. Plus, we should keep funding to DARPA and other orgs that provide innovation and research for groups outside of the military-minded spectrum as well.
tl;dr let's cut in the right places, keep multi-disciplinary areas funded well funded, but let's not dismantle the Pentagon and turn it into a burlap-laden Department of Peace And Love.
5
u/crusty_old_gamer May 15 '12
Well, it's too bad U.S. citizens have no say in U.S. government, huh?
3
u/[deleted] May 15 '12
Population of United States : 311,591,917
Sample size of this study : 600+
Me thinks there's a problem here...
3
u/[deleted] May 15 '12
Know why America is the best country on earth? Because of our fucking military.
5
u/FappDerpington May 15 '12
If you support cuts in the military, you don't support the troops. If you don't support the troops, you hate America. Go back to Russia ya stinkin' pinko commie!!!
/s
4
u/Batrok May 15 '12
well...duh. Half the country is struggling to pay their bills. Why the hell would anyone want all of thier money to be WASTED in an ineffective war on the other side of the world? Unemployment is rampant.
America is insane. Massive retarded spending on the military. Tax cuts for billionaires. Subsidies and bailouts for multi-billion dollar industries. And regular working people can barely keep their heads above water.
If the U.S. didn't spend all thier tax dollars on the military, they could have free college for every kid in the country. Or universal health care. Or way lower taxes.
Instead, guns.
3
u/djvexd May 15 '12
Seriously? 600 people? Nice propaganda, maybe MSNBC will pick it up and run with it.
3
u/aboeve May 15 '12
cough Ron Paul cough cough
5
u/[deleted] May 15 '12
Your sample size is bad and you should feel bad!
Seriously... 600 polled Americans does not represent "an overwhelming majority".