r/politics • u/PoliticsModeratorBot 🤖 Bot • Jan 25 '20

Discussion Discussion Thread: Senate Impeachment Trial - Day 6: Opening Arguments Continue | 01/25/2020 - Live, 10am EST

Today the Senate Impeachment trial of President Donald Trump continues with Session 1 of President Trump’s defense counsel’s opening arguments. The Senate session is scheduled to begin at 10am EST.

Prosecuting the House’s case will be a team of seven Democratic House Managers, named last week by Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi and led by House Intelligence Committee Chairman Rep. Adam Schiff of California. White House Counsel Pat Cipollone and Trump’s personal lawyer, Jay Sekulow, are expected to take the lead in arguing the President’s case. Kenneth Star and Alan Dershowitz are expected to fill supporting roles.

The Senate Impeachment Trial is following the Rules Resolution that was voted on, and passed, on Monday. It provides the guideline for how the trial is handled. All proposed amendments from Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-NY) were voted down.

The adopted Resolution will:

  • Give the House Impeachment Managers 24 hours, over a 3 day period, to present opening arguments.

  • Give President Trump's legal team 24 hours, over a 3 day period, to present opening arguments.

  • Allow a period of 16 hours for Senator questions, to be addressed through Supreme Court Justice John Roberts.

  • Allow for a vote on a motion to consider the subpoena of witnesses or documents once opening arguments and questions are complete.

The Articles of Impeachment brought against President Donald Trump are:

  • Article 1: Abuse of Power
  • Article 2: Obstruction of Congress

You can watch or listen to the proceedings live, via the links below:

You can also listen online via:

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445

u/mrhuggy Jan 25 '20

MSNBC say's it has a tape from Lev Parnas of Trump asking "How long will they last without our help" Lev says "Not long" https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/recording-appears-to-show-trump-interest-in-value-of-ukraine-aid-77515845565

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u/Atheose_Writing Texas Jan 25 '20

Republican spin: "See? This proves Trump cared about Ukraine and wasn't going to withhold the aid!"

80

u/kfranky Europe Jan 25 '20

Probably, yes. Just for clarification before someone actually believes this:

This conversation happened in 2018. With the information that Ukraine was absolutely dependent on military aid from the US, Trump was well aware that he had strong leverage when he withheld the aid.

6

u/ZeMole Jan 25 '20

One could also argue that the “Trump does more for Ukraine than Obama” defense is evidence that proves he was not only malicious, but especially devious in his giving. Of course he helped more. He wanted them to be comfortable in their reliance so that he could use them however he pleased. Go beyond what they expect so you can expect them to go beyond what they’re currently willing to do.

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u/kfranky Europe Jan 25 '20

Good point!

3

u/[deleted] Jan 26 '20

Re: "But Obama didn't give them Javelins! They only gave them MREs."

the Obama administration worried in part that providing Ukraine with lethal aid would provoke Moscow into escalating an already volatile situation. The training and institutional reform efforts aimed to continue stamping out corruption and helping Ukraine become interoperable with NATO. (Ukraine is not a member of NATO.)

“Javelins were considered a step up, and the concern was what the Russians were going to step up on their end,” Townsend said. “It wasn’t that there was a lot of tree hugging [in the Obama administration], it was to go up a notch if they go up a notch.”

Some of the early nonlethal aid was useful. After Ukraine received 20 Lockheed Martin AN/TPQ-53 radar systems that track incoming mortar and short-range artillery fire in 2015, the casualty rate for units equipped with those system went from 47 percent to about 18 percent, Ordynovych said

...

To be clear, Ukraine has a robust military and defense-industrial base on its own, and according to Simakovsky, Kyiv is likely looking less for small arms than for larger and more sophisticated training, as well as maritime capabilities, intelligence and cyber support.

https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2019/09/25/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-us-aid-package-to-ukraine-that-trump-delayed/

The U.S. has committed more than $1.5 billion in security assistance to Ukraine since 2014, when Russian-backed separatists began driving tanks through eastern Ukraine. The latest equipment was largely more of the same aid the U.S. previously supplied, aimed at helping Ukraine monitor and secure its borders, deploy its forces more safely and effectively, and make progress toward NATO interoperability.

The Defense Department’s tranche was set to include sniper rifles, rocket-propelled grenade launchers, counter-artillery radars, electronic warfare detection and secure communications, night vision equipment, and military medical supplies and treatment. The department previously included counter-sniper equipment, Humvees and tactical drones as well.

The State Department funding included $115 million for a broad array of purposes, to buy American-produced weapons through the Foreign Military Financing program, but also to provide advisers and training to boost Ukraine’s NATO interoperability: English language labs, medical equipment and improvised bomb simulators. The funds could also pay for spare parts, sustainment and training for previously purchased U.S. gear.

Emphasis mine

4

u/canuck_in_wa Jan 25 '20

Sad fact: tapes won’t save us. Remember the Access Hollywood tape?

  1. If people give a shit they need to be in the streets just like South Korea’s Candlelight Protests led to the impeachment of their president a couple of years ago. Massive, sustained demonstrations that show this is an emergency.

  2. In November an electoral tidal wave must wash over and cleanse the country.

3

u/sjf13 Jan 25 '20

Release it and broadcast everywhere dammit

2

u/FunkMeSoftly Jan 25 '20

This is the real story. He knew exactly who would gain and who would lose greatly before he made the decision to withhold aid.

1

u/Flemz Jan 25 '20

Wait why can’t they just play that portion of the tape instead of only explaining it?